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#2140657 - 08/29/13 11:24 AM How do you Feel about Applause?
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
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How do you feel about applause? Do you like it?

I've worked with a lot of singers professionally, and everyone of them thinks that singing is what you do in between applause. Of course, they are also the first people to tell you how happy you are that they came to your party. (sigh...)

At the other extreme, I've know some very sensitive souls who play exceptionally well, and are very good performers, but don't like being applauded and prefer to run off stage the instant it starts. They like to receive their accolades from behind a screen.

Where do you fit in this spectrum? Any good stories to tell? And of course, more jokes about singers (or other performers) are always welcome!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140690 - 08/29/13 12:06 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Polyphonist Offline
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Applause is fine, as long as it doesn't happen between movements. (Argh! mad )


Edited by Polyphonist (08/29/13 12:06 PM)
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Polyphonist

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#2140695 - 08/29/13 12:10 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
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I'm almost disappointed when they don't applaud between movements of certain pieces. grin

Answering the OP: I think applause are a good indicator of what we've done -- I mean how well we played, how well we communicated -- provided we take other things into account and adjust our judgment according to that. Like, you expect more for a "fast and loud" ending, less for others, and so you judge in a way that takes such things into account.

P.S. You also have to take into account how much of the audience is your friends. ha

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#2140700 - 08/29/13 12:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
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Mark,

Are you really saying that we have to bribe our friends to both

1- come to our concerts, and

2- applaud when they're supposed to?

I don't think I can raise that kind of money...
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Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140703 - 08/29/13 12:18 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Mark_C Offline
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Looks like you misunderstood most of what I said. smile

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#2140705 - 08/29/13 12:18 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
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Please! I was making a joke!
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Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140720 - 08/29/13 12:33 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Please! I was making a joke!

Yes, I know -- but it doesn't work except by a misreading of what I said.

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#2140747 - 08/29/13 01:12 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
FSO Offline
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When I first started performing personal compositions in school concerts the audience would *so* often start applauding in pauses...but, um, that'd teach me for putting them there laugh I don't mind applause between movements, I think we *should* express ourselves mid performance (maybe not with a ringing "bravo!" in the middle of a crescendo, but, um, sighs and sobs shouldn't be contained...), whether the audience or performer, all that, theoretically, is just dandy...um...when it came to the end of my performance, however, I was minorly known for only half-bowing as I turned quickly away, almost running from the sound of applause, getting up before the fist clap fell, if possible...just...we're all wired differently. Some of us...I don't know smile Remembering praise does not make me squirm, but receiving it...in that moment...makes me want to sabotage *everything* someone might praise me for grin Harsh, unforgiving criticism is definitely preferred! Yes, it's silly, um, yes, it's ridiculous, but it's like...so long as they're focusing on the music you're safe....as soon as they're directing something at *you*? shocked sick And all my pianist friends would take a big bow...and talk before performing! Pffft...... laugh
Xxxxx
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#2140748 - 08/29/13 01:13 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Derulux Offline
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I'll take applause whenever I can get it. If I hit a wrong note, and you want to clap, I am perfectly okay with that. wink
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#2140752 - 08/29/13 01:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Nikolas Online   content
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I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh
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#2140753 - 08/29/13 01:17 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
BruceD Offline
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I like applause, particularly from informed audience members (who are not just "being polite"), because it indicates to me that I have communicated something which is, isn't it, the main goal of our public performances?

I've accompanied singers who have requested no applause between a set of numbers. That I understand, fully; the numbers are often conscientiously programmed to set a mood or to convey an atmosphere which can be broken by applause.

Regards,
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#2140754 - 08/29/13 01:20 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
FSO Offline
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Oh...and....yes; A pianist and singer are rehearsing Autumn Leaves for a concert and the pianist says:
"OK. We will start in G minor and then, on the third bar, modulate to B major and go into 5/4. Retaining the vibrato, when you get to the bridge modulate back down to F# minor and alternate a 4/4 bar with a 7/4 bar, emphasising the off-beats. On the last A section go into double time and slowly modulate back to G minor." To which the singer says, looking down at the sheet music, a little bite on the lip:
"Wow, I don't think I can remember all of that." The pianist looks across the body of the piano, his fingers trace the keys:
"Well, that's what you did last time."
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#2140755 - 08/29/13 01:21 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
....I literally butchered the piece!

I bet you didn't. smile

Why?
Because you're a terrific musician.

I'm guessing you mean mainly that there were wrong notes (including some awful ones), maybe also that sometimes you weren't exactly together with the violinist. But I'm guessing also that you played with excellent RHYTHM (because you DO!), which I think is really the very most important thing (underrated!), that you captured the essence of the pieces, that you were mostly together with him/her, and (maybe the very most important thing for chamber music) that your balance with the violinist was good.

I think we usually put way too much emphasis on "mistakes" in our feelings about how we played. I'm sure that to many people this will seem ridiculous, but.....provided that there's a general accuracy to the playing, how we play the notes (dynamics, balance) and when we play them (rhythm, pulse) are more important than what notes we play, and go further toward making the music. Or at least more important than we give those things credit for.

I would have applauded you too.

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#2140760 - 08/29/13 01:28 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
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We once had opera subscription tickets with big opera fans from Italy, and he said that in Italy it was far more common to be loud and effusive than it was here. I have no way of knowing if he was right or wrong.

As for me, I like applause but the only applause I receive is from the kids. My four year old applauds instinctively every time he hears a cadence of any sort followed by a pause, haha.

I could make a million mistakes, but as long as I hit the last big tonic chord, somewhere in the house I can hear applause.
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#2140762 - 08/29/13 01:29 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Michael Sayers Online   content
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I like applause because one can discern from its qualities if the majority of an audience is really enjoying themselves and also how many encores to dish out - I did seven of these after a home recital in December 2001, Leschetizky's Intermezzo in Octaves Op. 44 No. 4 became the only work involved with the encores as they kept asking me to repeat it over and over, but eventually I became a bit weary to keep going with it at full intensity ad infinitum!


M.

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#2140765 - 08/29/13 01:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
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Originally Posted By: FSO
Oh...and....yes; A pianist and singer are rehearsing Autumn Leaves for a concert and the pianist says:
"OK. We will start in G minor and then, on the third bar, modulate to B major and go into 5/4. Retaining the vibrato, when you get to the bridge modulate back down to F# minor and alternate a 4/4 bar with a 7/4 bar, emphasising the off-beats. On the last A section go into double time and slowly modulate back to G minor." To which the singer says, looking down at the sheet music, a little bite on the lip:
"Wow, I don't think I can remember all of that." The pianist looks across the body of the piano, his fingers trace the keys:
"Well, that's what you did last time."


LOL

..can I quote you on that? It's happened on more occasions than I care to remember.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140767 - 08/29/13 01:40 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
jdw Offline
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Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1007
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
I like applause, but I like even better when people come to express appreciation afterward. I play in a church, so they often do. You can tell when it's really sincere. It's very hard to judge from your own feeling about the playing (and the mistakes etc.) what you've conveyed to the listeners. As Mark said, I think players (including me) tend to be excessively self-critical.

And this is all a joke about the singers, right? (As a sometime singer myself, I could take umbrage but won't.)
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#2140768 - 08/29/13 01:44 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
....I literally butchered the piece!

I bet you didn't. smile

Why?
Because you're a terrific musician.

I'm guessing you mean mainly that there were wrong notes (including some awful ones), maybe also that sometimes you weren't exactly together with the violinist. But I'm guessing also that you played with excellent RHYTHM (because you DO!), which I think is really the very most important thing (underrated!), that you captured the essence of the pieces, that you were mostly together with him/her, and (maybe the very most important thing for chamber music) that your balance with the violinist was good.
Actually I stopped twice... Left the violinist playing on his own... No other wrong notes or anything. but stopping for me is the apotheosis of errors! You lose the rhythm, the flow, the continuity, the essence of music is you stopped. And I did it twice!

(thanks btw... I honestly appreciate your post).

And while watching my post I remember another thing I did wrong, while I KNOW IT!

But here's Oatmeal to explain it better:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally

I didn't literally butcher anything! I've never butchered anything in my life! literally! wink

But for everything else you say, by all means YES! In fact it's one of my pet peeves (after that incident). So much that I've had this weird idea to compose a piece of piano music, sounding bad on purpose. This would include the irony of the audience thinking the pianist is doing a bad job, while the pianist would be excellent in his job! And the title would be "Vstra Cupla" (YOUR fault)... Never came to fruition and now that I think about it, I think that no pianist would ridicule his self for such a reason! grin


Edited by Nikolas (08/29/13 01:46 PM)
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#2140770 - 08/29/13 01:47 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
laguna_greg Offline
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Nikolas,

Thanks for that. That is the most fun!

"...weird idea to compose a piece of piano music, sounding bad on purpose. "

Sorry, but several other people have beat you to it.


Edited by laguna_greg (08/29/13 01:48 PM)
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Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140771 - 08/29/13 01:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
....I didn't literally butcher anything! I've never butchered anything in my life! literally! wink

I noticed your choice of words ha ....Luckily for you, I think everybody knows that the word "literally" is rarely meant literally. grin

Like, how's this: "He literally tore my head off...."

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#2140778 - 08/29/13 01:57 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Actually I stopped twice... Left the violinist playing on his own...

Pfft, that's just called not being a greedy glory hog, surely? grin And I'd second (hopefully at least third or fourth) what Mark said...typed; from what sadly little I've heard, you are nothing if not a competent pianist. I mean...um...I'm sure you played those silences better than I would have laugh Besides...you stated yourself how much applause you received. I will literally feel a little bit sad if you don't consider that in and of itself a success...not too much, I mean, the tears won't cut gorges out of stone but...a little...literally laugh Laguna...um...quote what you will; I'm only sorry we're not getting at the drummers and the cellists...because oh my...oh my laugh
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2140781 - 08/29/13 02:02 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
laguna_greg Offline
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Them too! Let's also not forget the bass baritones. Have you ever heard the one about how a soprano walks into an audition and...
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Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140786 - 08/29/13 02:06 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5319
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Sorry, but several other people have beat you to it.
What?!?!? Who?!?! What?!?! When?!?? Where's my lawyers?!?! :P

FSO: Thank you ^_^

Well... ok... it felt bad for my standards (but I've lowered them ever since, I learned to take in advice on the actual place I play, do more rehearsals, etc...) grin
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#2140792 - 08/29/13 02:19 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Lowering your standards is the fastest way to becoming the perfect musician! grin I mean...you *could* be the last desk of the second violins, but if you lower your standards you can be principal cellist of the Berlin Philharmonic... laugh Laguna, delight me; walk? I thought sopranos were carried everywhere by their admirers? wink Um...perfect pitch; being able to get the sax in the dumpster without hitting the sides laugh
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2140800 - 08/29/13 02:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
bennevis Offline
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Posts: 5308
Applause is always good - especially when it is unexpected. Because, the chances are, it wasn't dutiful (i.e. the audience felt it was expected of them) but spontaneous, and therefore shows real approval for the performer.

I've heard such spontaneous applause rarely in piano recitals - the most frequent being after the March of Schumann's C major Fantasy, when the pianist has negotiated the treacherous leaps with great aplomb. (I've never seen any pianist who didn't appear appreciative for that).

In my own case, the one that gave me the most satisfaction was a lecture-recital I once gave at a hospital's lecture hall, where normally the great and learned give learned expositions on the latest advances in laparoscopic/robotic surgery etc, to, er, the great and learned. And afterwards, some robust questions and discussions, all very civil. Applause wasn't encouraged, nor proper. But on this occasion, an ancient six-foot grand in good condition was wheeled in, rather than a patient, and I was going to give a talk on classical music grin . I'd no idea how many people were going to turn up for such a non-medical talk, nor what sort of reception I'd get. Nor how much the audience knew about classical music, or want to know. After all, it was held during lunch hour.

I started getting excited and nervous at the same time, when I saw the hall filling up, such that extra chairs had to be brought in. It seemed to me like all the hospital staff had abandoned their patients in order to come and hear me speak and play grin. Originally, I'd intended to play mostly excerpts rather than complete movements or pieces, to illustrate my talk. But seeing the audience looking expectantly at the piano from behind the curtain, I decided I wasn't going to short-change them, and would play everything complete, apart from the three arrangements of orchestral and vocal music that I'd prepared (as the lecture was supposed to be about classical music through the ages, not just piano music).

Inevitably, the talk-with-music-illustrations turned into a recital-with-explanatory-talk, and I overran my allotted time by half an hour. But nobody left early (meaning that everyone missed lunch....), and spontaneous applause broke out at the end, which was gratifying to me grin. But even better, several people stayed behind to ask me questions about the music I played, and their composers. I might even have converted a few sceptics to the pleasures of classical music......
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"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2140803 - 08/29/13 02:32 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
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bennevis: Such a cool story! Thanks for sharing! ^_^
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#2140807 - 08/29/13 02:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
carey Offline
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Originally Posted By: laguna_greg

I've worked with a lot of singers professionally, and everyone of them thinks that singing is what you do in between applause. Of course, they are also the first people to tell you how happy you are that they came to your party. (sigh...)


ha thumb
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#2140809 - 08/29/13 02:42 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
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Originally Posted By: FSO
Lowering your standards is the fastest way to becoming the perfect musician! grin I mean...you *could* be the last desk of the second violins, but if you lower your standards you can be principal cellist of the Berlin Philharmonic... laugh Laguna, delight me; walk? I thought sopranos were carried everywhere by their admirers? wink Um...perfect pitch; being able to get the sax in the dumpster without hitting the sides laugh


...crying...can't stop hugging myself...sniff...

I think we definitely need a thread about jokes, don't you think?

And sopranos aren't carried anywhere by their admirers. They are carried by slaves and minions (preferably naked when the weather is warm) bought and paid for by their admirers. A fine point they all insist on.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140810 - 08/29/13 02:44 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
bennevis: Such a cool story! Thanks for sharing! ^_^


+1
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140819 - 08/29/13 03:18 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5308
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
bennevis: Such a cool story! Thanks for sharing! ^_^


+1


Thanks! smile

I realized afterwards that there are many people who never thought that classical music was for them, but only because they haven't been exposed to it in a manner they are familiar with. On that occasion, I actually got more satisfaction from 'converting' people to it than from knowing that I'd played better than I'd ever done at any previous public performance.
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"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2140834 - 08/29/13 03:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: bennevis]
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Ben,

It has been my experience that good music of any kind sells itself when it is well performed. it's ironic that we all think we need to "market the product", when all it needs, really, is to presented well and clearly to the public.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140861 - 08/29/13 04:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
jdw Offline
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Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1007
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Actually I stopped twice... Left the violinist playing on his own... No other wrong notes or anything. but stopping for me is the apotheosis of errors! You lose the rhythm, the flow, the continuity, the essence of music is you stopped. And I did it twice!


Stopping--that's nothing! The audience probably thought the violinist had a cadenza.

Actually, I once was singing an aria when the pianist stopped. I kept going for a few measures but lost it where the piano was supposed to cue me. Luckily it was near the start in an amateur performance before tolerant folks, so we just started over and all was good. (Ok, I'm a soprano, but not the sort who gets carried by anybody.)
_________________________
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Currently working on:
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#2141348 - 08/30/13 12:27 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm almost disappointed when they don't applaud between movements of certain pieces. grin


YES. They used to do it all the time... and some endings obviously beg for it. The first piece that pops into my head is the 1st movement of the Debussy violin sonata. That NEEDS applause. And of course there was that time when we played it at a rich donor's house, who had invited many of his friends (really nice people, not musicians) and they of course applauded after that movement. It felt right! And then the 2nd movement definitely does not need it, it kind of melts into the 3rd, and then you have your finale.

Anyway...
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#2141351 - 08/30/13 12:31 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by my playing, and the applause made me feel so uncomfortable, that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......


Edited by Pogorelich. (08/30/13 12:35 PM)
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#2141353 - 08/30/13 12:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.
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#2141354 - 08/30/13 12:36 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.
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#2141358 - 08/30/13 12:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.
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#2141360 - 08/30/13 12:44 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
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Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.


Fine, be hostile to the audience after you're done then, Jesus.
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#2141361 - 08/30/13 12:45 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.


Fine, be hostile to the audience after you're done then, Jesus.

The only way to be hostile to the audience is to not bow at all or to look murderous. There's a large spectrum.
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#2141362 - 08/30/13 12:46 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
beet31425 Offline
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After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J
_________________________
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#2141365 - 08/30/13 12:52 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.
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#2141372 - 08/30/13 01:11 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.
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#2141375 - 08/30/13 01:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.

After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?
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#2141381 - 08/30/13 01:28 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.

After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?


Why not? It's fine to create the needed atmosphere after the piece is finished, but nothing wrong with being a little bit graceful after a while. Like I said, after the 2nd bow it's fine. I don't see the big dilemma here.
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#2141384 - 08/30/13 01:29 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Pogorelich. Offline
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(And I thought at first you were talking about op. 111, not Appassionata?)
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#2141385 - 08/30/13 01:32 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.

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#2141389 - 08/30/13 01:37 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

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#2141394 - 08/30/13 01:43 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?

I've only performed op.57 a couple times so far, in very informal settings. But when I finish that last movement, and I turn to the listeners, I'm feeling something like: "Oh my god! Did you feel it-- that intensity, drama, tragedy? What was that thing we all just experienced?" And sometimes the right way to acknowledge a shared experience is with a smile. Just to say: "Yes, I felt it too."

-Jason
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#2141395 - 08/30/13 01:43 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

That's what I do when I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I have the backstage assistants bring barrels of mud onto the stage and throw them into the audience.
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Polyphonist

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#2141399 - 08/30/13 01:47 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

That's what I do when I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I have the backstage assistants bring barrels of mud onto the stage and throw them into the audience.


You're all too nice. I usually set the piano on fire before filling the hall with profanities. After that I head to the bar.
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#2141400 - 08/30/13 01:49 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
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To moderators: Maybe 'sticky' this thread to make it a reference on how to relate to audiences? grin

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#2141408 - 08/30/13 01:59 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
To moderators: Maybe 'sticky' this thread to make it a reference on how to relate to audiences? grin


One time in studio class a student finished playing something, and the teacher asked "What is your biggest enemy when you perform?" (in this case, the answer was "speed", as he sort of rushed through everything because of nerves). He answered "the audience".. hahaha!! Will never forget that.
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#2141409 - 08/30/13 02:02 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...."What is your biggest enemy when you perform?".....He answered "the audience".. hahaha!!

And of course if it's a concerto, the answer is the orchestra. ha

PDQ Bach did a good job calling it "Concerto for Piano vs. Orchestra." grin

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#2141414 - 08/30/13 02:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Offline
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Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...."What is your biggest enemy when you perform?".....He answered "the audience".. hahaha!!

And of course if it's a concerto, the answer is the orchestra. ha

PDQ Bach did a good job calling it "Concerto for Piano vs. Orchestra." grin

Karl Haas, in his great old radio show "Adventures in Good Music", once made the point that while the "con" in "concerto" is often thought to mean "together" (as in "concerted effort"), it can just as easily mean "against" (as in "contra" and "conflict").

-J
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2141424 - 08/30/13 02:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
bennevis Offline
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J


Are you the great (and late) Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli? wink
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#2141548 - 08/30/13 08:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: bennevis]
laguna_greg Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J


Are you the great (and late) Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli? wink


Please ben, he was hardly the only reference who did something like that.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141572 - 08/30/13 10:33 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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I love applause, thank you! Thank you.

(I also love the smell of grease paint.)

Thank you.

Thank you.













thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141573 - 08/30/13 10:33 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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I like flowers, too.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141574 - 08/30/13 10:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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THANK YOU! ENOUGH ALREADY!!! laugh
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but at least I'm slow.

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#2141575 - 08/30/13 10:35 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Please be seated.
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I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141577 - 08/30/13 10:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141579 - 08/30/13 10:45 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


...or when you've just scared the excrement right down their collective legs, and they are paralyzed for no apparent reason.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141585 - 08/30/13 10:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


...or when you've just scared the excrement right down their collective legs, and they are paralyzed for no apparent reason.


Blecch.

Personally, I don't use fear to communicate. Never have. Don't intend to start. I don't seek it, and it doesn't seek me.

Love, peace, healing and joy. That's where I like to hang out. I'll fight if I have to, but only if provoked.


Edited by Cinnamonbear (08/30/13 11:02 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
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#2141588 - 08/30/13 11:02 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
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Bear Darling,

It's not about you per se, it's about the composer, and the work performed. People ought to be terrified by the time you finish the Prokofiev Toccata, or the 7th Sonata, or the Chopin 2nd sonata, or the 4th Ballade, or the Apassionata, and so forth.

I could go on...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141590 - 08/30/13 11:04 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Go right ahead. I'm not tuned to stuff that evokes terror.

Thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141592 - 08/30/13 11:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.













Thankyouverymuch.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141613 - 08/31/13 12:12 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thankyouverymuch.


...mais bien sûr, chér ami, OF COURSE IT IS!!!

How could I be so thoughtless, quelle idée!

Give me a moment. We'll stop talking about you, and I'll start saying how much I like your dress...

...(old singer joke)...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141673 - 08/31/13 05:50 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
bennevis Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


I've been to a few concerts where that's happened - and which the performer(s) really appreciated.

Th first was a few years ago (OK, a very long time ago), when Karajan conducted his Berliner Philharmoniker in Mahler's 6th Symphony. After the shattering conclusion, the orchestra stayed still, the conductor stayed facing the orchestra with head bowed; and the audience couldn't move with the impact of what they'd heard, and experienced. After about a minute of silence, Karajan slowly nodded to the orchestra and turned round. The applause started, but was muted, only rising after Karajan had been called back.

The last was at the conclusion of Pollini's Beethoven piano sonata cycle in London a few years ago, finishing with Op.111. His other-worldly control of the arch of the Arietta and the perfection of his playing (not least in the evenness of the long chains of trills) really did seem like he'd taken us with him to see a glimpse of heaven before bringing us gently back down to earth. Many people in the audience had attended every one of his Beethoven Sonatas concerts, but for the first time nobody jumped to their feet immediately to start applauding. Pollini kept his hands on the keyboard long after sound of the final chord had died away, and for what seemed an eternity, there was dead silence. Until Pollini nodded with evident gratitude for the audience's silence, and stood up.......
_________________________
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#2141792 - 08/31/13 11:57 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
laguna_greg Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes


I could make a million mistakes, but as long as I hit the last big tonic chord, somewhere in the house I can hear applause.


Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141832 - 08/31/13 01:35 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
jdw Offline
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Originally Posted By: laguna_greg


Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.


And it's a great one if you can still use the piano again after.

_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
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Mozart, K 330
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#2141834 - 08/31/13 01:38 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Louis Podesta Offline
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I suggest that you read Kenneth Hamilton's book "After the Golden Age."

It is an extensive discussion of how people initially performed, where they performed, and how the audiences reacted. Applauding between movements was commonplace, and if you really hit it out of the park, they started clapping before you finished your piece or orchestral work.

Just a suggestion that I thought some of you might want to know about. The NY Times gave it a glowing review based on this unique comprehensive analysis of 19th century performance practice.

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#2141851 - 08/31/13 02:38 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
FSO Offline
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Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta


It is an extensive discussion of how people initially performed, where they performed, and how the audiences reacted. Applauding between movements was commonplace, and if you really hit it out of the park, they started clapping before you finished your piece or orchestral work.

Common knowledge, surely? Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers being shushed during performances of their own works to ensure the notion that the middle classes de-popularised classical music with the polarity with which they insisted the music must be attributed with regards to earnestness, no?
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2141856 - 08/31/13 03:03 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers...

Was there ANY way in which the "um" was helpful? Would the sentence not have worked just as well without it?
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#2141928 - 08/31/13 06:20 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Louis Podesta Offline
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Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!

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#2141942 - 08/31/13 07:05 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Pogorelich. Offline
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It IS common knowledge, actually - I don't understand why you don't believe that.
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#2141945 - 08/31/13 07:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
gooddog Offline
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Most of the time, (about 99%), applause makes me very uncomfortable because I'm consistently appalled at how I played. I know my friends are applauding my courage and hard work not the quality of the music so I feel like a fraud. In my third public recital ever at age 57, I thought I played well, (Bach D minor concerto, first movement). I received loud and long applause, (and some bravas), from an informed audience of people who did not know me. I was stunned, very appreciative and so excited, I couldn't fall asleep that night. It was an intoxicating feeling I would like to repeat but so far, my performances have been, IMO, disasters.
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#2141971 - 08/31/13 08:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: gooddog]
laguna_greg Offline
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"It was an intoxicating feeling I would like to repeat..."

..as often as possible, please.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142004 - 08/31/13 10:41 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin

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#2142015 - 08/31/13 11:00 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thankyouverymuch.


...mais bien sûr, chér ami, OF COURSE IT IS!!!

How could I be so thoughtless, quelle idée!

Give me a moment. We'll stop talking about you, and I'll start saying how much I like your dress...

...(old singer joke)...


Dress!?! crazy Puh-lease! You *may* talk about how much you like my pocket square, though...

Click to reveal..




Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2142017 - 08/31/13 11:01 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
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Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin


Mark, please do continue with your idea about starting a thread on that Beethoven, with all your ideas about it. It just isn't played often enough, and it needs all the support it can get.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142026 - 08/31/13 11:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
....please do continue with your idea about starting a thread on that Beethoven, with all your ideas about it. It just isn't played often enough, and it needs all the support it can get.

You may not agree with anything I said grin but here we go.

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#2142030 - 08/31/13 11:49 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
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Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Mark, thanks for that link! It doesn't matter what I or anyone else think. It's your thread. Have at it. You can have an argument later on in that thread if Kismet say so.


..and I don't think you're on the wrong track at all...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142058 - 09/01/13 12:38 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Registered: 05/06/10
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Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.

I closed a concert with the Liszt sonata, and after a brutal start, it was actually pretty successful. But there was a long pause between the last note and the applause (or it felt really long!). That was a really gratifying moment.

The weird thing about playing long pieces is that....well when I began the andante sostenuto coda, I just was sort of in disbelief...that 25 minutes had already passed. Sometimes the music just carries you away with it.

I wasn't really able to receive the applause though, I was so exhausted. I took a bow, then sat back down on the bench as another friend announced the end of the concert (it was not that formal). I had already played the Franck violin sonata, accompanied a flute piece, and after the Liszt I could barely stand... and was I ever in big trouble with some other engineering projects that were due a few days later!
_________________________
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#2142095 - 09/01/13 03:13 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kuanpiano]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


I love the roar of applause at the end when it's appropriate, say Bruckner's 8th Symphony or something like that, but I must agree with you here. I remember the NY crowd exploding in a chorus of bravo's and whistles at the end of Mahler's 6th Symphony (NYP/Lorin Maazel)...and oh, that struck me so inappropriate and marred what was a truly great performance (and yes a terrifying performance).

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano

I closed a concert with the Liszt sonata, and after a brutal start, it was actually pretty successful. But there was a long pause between the last note and the applause (or it felt really long!). That was a really gratifying moment.

The weird thing about playing long pieces is that....well when I began the andante sostenuto coda, I just was sort of in disbelief...that 25 minutes had already passed. Sometimes the music just carries you away with it.


Back in January 2012 I started playing recitals at retirement centers for a program called Music for Seniors. My first concert I "warmed up" with the Liszt Sonata, and I "cooled down" with the last movement of the Beethoven/Liszt 9th Symphony. before the andante sostenuto coda, right at the cut of or the big dominant 7th, they all started clapping. But one old man was either knowledgeable enough or perceptive enough, and shooshed every body by saying, "SHUT UP, HE'S NOT FINISHED!"

(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece! I'll bet you were exhausted after that recital!)
_________________________
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#2142098 - 09/01/13 03:36 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: D. S. F.]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece!

Frank's Violin Sonata? Never heard of the guy.
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Polyphonist

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#2142103 - 09/01/13 03:59 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2635
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece!

Frank's Violin Sonata? Never heard of the guy.


Here is how the composer's name should be spelled along with a nice rendition of the piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIlPaqmcklk

The poster missed the "c" in Franck.

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#2142132 - 09/01/13 05:42 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers...

Was there ANY way in which the "um" was helpful? Would the sentence not have worked just as well without it?


Polyphonist, it does appear that the word "um" is used also in one of your sentences . . . (oops, I did it too!) wink


M.

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#2142155 - 09/01/13 07:57 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Michael Sayers Online   content
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!


Hi Louis, the issue is that this being an academic subject it has little appeal as a news story. Best in the newspaper area would be to bring some music critics on board with it . . . but what are they, or is anyone else, supposed to do? I just don't understand what it is that you realistically expect to transpire as an outcome.

As with Ervin Nyiregyhazi, he received tremendous press in the 1970s and made recordings, yet in the professional music world what has changed as a result?

p.s. - With Nyiregyhazi, according to Raymond Lewenthal's recollections of hearing him perform in the 1940s, audiences would scream, shout, stomp their shoes on the ground, make waves around the halls, and in general behave as though they were audiences to American football games!


M.

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#2142163 - 09/01/13 08:43 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin


Maybe it is addressed to a different Mark C.? laugh


M.

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#2142227 - 09/01/13 11:47 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
riley80 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 386
Loc: Florida
I think this inter-movement applause is here to stay, along with standing ovations. Whaddayagonnado? Spell it out in the programs? It's bad enough when you have to put 'disable cellphones' in the program - my chorus had to do it and STILL, you'd hear at least one call per performance ring thru.

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#2142228 - 09/01/13 11:51 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5319
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!
As it appears from your post, you think that reading a few books makes you better than the rest?

Guess again buddy! wink
_________________________
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#2142229 - 09/01/13 11:54 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: riley80]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: riley80
I think this inter-movement applause is here to stay, along with standing ovations. Whaddayagonnado? Spell it out in the programs? It's bad enough when you have to put 'disable cellphones' in the program - my chorus had to do it and STILL, you'd hear at least one call per performance ring thru.


The best thing is to build a Faraday cage into the construction of every concert and recital hall or temporarily wrap one around the building for performance dates. Then the cell phone issue is solved!


M.

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#2142233 - 09/01/13 12:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
jdw Offline
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Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1007
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
I like to hear inter-movement applause because it shows the presence of some folks who are newer to classical music.

I'm not as keen on the constant standing ovations, though--especially when some people take the opportunity to stand up and slip out the door while applause is still ongoing.
_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Grieg, Papillon
Mozart, K 330
Brahms, Op. 118 no. 2

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#2142246 - 09/01/13 12:36 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: jdw]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jdw
I like to hear inter-movement applause because it shows the presence of some folks who are newer to classical music....

But it doesn't at all. Lots of people who do that aren't new to it. I know, because I'm one. grin

In fact, there are an awful lot of times (and I'm sure a lot of people here will think they are indeed awful!) when I would want to applaud for a moment in the middle of a movement or piece. Of course I don't, but I'll sometimes do an applauding motion a few times without letting the hands meet. ha

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#2142294 - 09/01/13 02:38 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
Louis Podesta Offline
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Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 745
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!
As it appears from your post, you think that reading a few books makes you better than the rest?

Guess again buddy! wink


No it doesn't make me any better than the rest, and for the record, as an empiricist, I research every single day. As I said in my original post, I have researched my thesis for 13 years.

So, when, independent of mine, other researchers who have spent most of their entire lives on this same subject, wholeheartedly endorse my thesis, then the least I expect is to be treated as an equal and not some crackpot.

Do you have any idea what your reception would be at any applied musicology conference if you showed up with Kreisler or Brendan as your source references? You would be laughed out of the hall.

At least Laguna Greg has multiple published journal articles and lectures to back up what he says. I go down the same road, in terms of citing sources, and I have to defend myself every step of the way.

The reason I cite these three books, is that 1) OUP doesn't publish junk, and 2) this the first time, anyone took years to comprehensively pull together all of the data that has gone before regarding romantic piano performance and then present it in a book format.

So, go out a find a music librarian anywhere who will not tell you that every pianist should have the books of Drs. Brown, Hamilton, and Peres Da Costa in their personal libraries. There is a reason for that, and that is the point!

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#2142304 - 09/01/13 02:52 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5319
Loc: Europe
Louis,

First of all I've no idea why the names of Kreisler and Brendan came up (certainly I didn't mention them). I, based on my own knowledge of music (and you can disregard anything you want about that) love the fact that these two are actually here and share even some of their time with us. I can't say the same thing about you though.

As for the rest of your post, I sense that while you are a lovely bookworm you also seem to lack any regard about peoples experience. Not to mention that you also seem to treat the forums some kind of academic court room, unlike most of us which treat it a bit like a pub, a bit like a great place to hang out with friends, a bit like a place to advertise a tiny bit, get some endorsement, help a little, get helped a little, etc...

And all this in a thread about applause... Brilliant! Really brilliant! Well done mate...
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#2142313 - 09/01/13 03:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13804
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
So, go out a find a music librarian anywhere who will not tell you that every pianist should have the books of Drs. Brown, Hamilton, and Peres Da Costa in their personal libraries. There is a reason for that, and that is the point!


I'd also recommend Christopher Small's books, especially "Musicking", for a better understanding of the relationship between performers, audiences, and the musical experience.

I do agree with Nikolas that the forums are more like a pub than an academic courtroom. But then, most universities I've visited are more like pubs than academic courtrooms, and far too many university and conservatory students read far too little.

I think we regularly see that here on the forums - people who believe that their opinions are far more informed than they really are. (And no, I'm not gonna name names.)

I own probably 200 books I purchased while in school, and read twice that amount from libraries and journals. I know a lot of students who own maybe 10 books and barely skim articles once, much less re-read them in an effort to fully understand them. I still read, although not quite as much as I did back then. My latest reading includes David Byrne's "How Music Works", which covers many of the same issues, albeit from a different point of view. Kenneth Hamilton is also on the Kindle ready to go, and Matthew Guerrieri's "The First Four Notes" is up next.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#2142317 - 09/01/13 03:17 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
JoelW Offline
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Applause is good. I like it. Does that answer the question?

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#2142318 - 09/01/13 03:20 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: D. S. F.]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano

I closed a concert with the Liszt sonata, and after a brutal start, it was actually pretty successful. But there was a long pause between the last note and the applause (or it felt really long!). That was a really gratifying moment.

The weird thing about playing long pieces is that....well when I began the andante sostenuto coda, I just was sort of in disbelief...that 25 minutes had already passed. Sometimes the music just carries you away with it.


Back in January 2012 I started playing recitals at retirement centers for a program called Music for Seniors. My first concert I "warmed up" with the Liszt Sonata, and I "cooled down" with the last movement of the Beethoven/Liszt 9th Symphony. before the andante sostenuto coda, right at the cut of or the big dominant 7th, they all started clapping. But one old man was either knowledgeable enough or perceptive enough, and shooshed every body by saying, "SHUT UP, HE'S NOT FINISHED!"

(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece! I'll bet you were exhausted after that recital!)

You warmed up the Liszt and closed off with the finale of the Beethoven-Liszt 9....that's crazy! YOU must have been exhausted! And that old man sounds pretty cool..haha. Thankfully both times I performed the Liszt, nobody clapped after that climactic moment...though the second time I fudged that last chord and had to cut the pedal really quickly!

And yeah, I was completely toast after that performance..I wasn't able to do any work until the next evening...not good because exams were coming up!

And yes the Franck sonata is a wonderful piece! It's one of my favourites and I'm so glad that I was able to perform it with one of my closest friends.


Edited by Kuanpiano (09/01/13 03:21 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
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#2142326 - 09/01/13 03:43 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13804
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Applause is good. I like it. Does that answer the question?


I wish it did!

This thread suffers from the fact that people are trying to cover a lot of different issues:

1) Personal preference when you like to applaud or receive applause

2) What the protocol for applause should be.

3) What the protocol for applause has been in the past.

4) Geographical/demographic differences in applause protocol.

5) The effect programming has on applause

My thoughts would be:

1) I like applauding people when they do well, even between movements. I like receiving applause, and it doesn't really bother me when people do it between movements.

2) I don't believe there should be a protocol, it's just one of those societal habits that forms organically. (And it should be allowed to form organically.)

3) It varies a great deal. (I think people used to applaud performers after cadenzas while the orchestra was still playing in the 18th/19th centuries - much like jazz solos nowadays. Podesta would know more than I about the specifics.)

4) I've lived most of my life in the midwest where audiences are very generous with applause and standing ovations. I think that's fine. I've also attended concerts on the coasts where audiences were not generous and people would get up and walk out at intermission if they didn't think the performance was up to par. I think that's fine, too.

5) Again, it varies, and I think it should. John Williams overture at the Hollywood bowl on a Sunday afternoon concert should be received differently than the Berg sonata in a chapel on the Italian coast in the winter.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2142329 - 09/01/13 03:51 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
BDB Offline
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The most interesting way of dealing with audiences was George Antheil's method. He would come out on stage, sit down at the piano, pull out his revolver and place it on the piano, and begin to play.
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#2142349 - 09/01/13 04:29 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
gooddog Offline
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I love the silence before the applause. When a performance ends and the audience is left in a state of quiet, breathless wonder, the moment of silence and heartfelt sighs seal the end of the performance like nothing else. I hate being startled out of this hypnosis by some cowboy(girl) who must race to be the first person to clap. I wish they'd give me a moment to return to Earth.

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#2142397 - 09/01/13 05:46 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: gooddog]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
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Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.

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#2142400 - 09/01/13 05:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'll sometimes do an applauding motion a few times without letting the hands meet. ha


Yeah, I've sat next to you before. That irritates the helll out of me.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142401 - 09/01/13 05:58 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: stores]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: stores
....I've sat next to you before....

I assume you mean "you" in a metaphoric sense. grin

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#2142404 - 09/01/13 06:05 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.


NOoooooooooooooooo!!!!! I CAN'T STAND THAT!!!! Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them), but I am SOOOOOOOO sick and tired of people doing this for practically every work on the programme. Applause is great. There isn't a performer who doesn't crave it (we are all egomaniacs), but, though the music deserves applause, more often than not, in fact, a moment of silent reflection on what we as an audience have just heard is exactly what is in order.
"When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job."
No, it simply means you've a blissfully ignorant, immature audience.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142406 - 09/01/13 06:05 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: stores
....I've sat next to you before....

I assume you mean "you" in a metaphoric sense. grin


duh
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142413 - 09/01/13 06:24 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: stores]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
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Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.


NOoooooooooooooooo!!!!! I CAN'T STAND THAT!!!! Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them), but I am SOOOOOOOO sick and tired of people doing this for practically every work on the programme. Applause is great. There isn't a performer who doesn't crave it (we are all egomaniacs), but, though the music deserves applause, more often than not, in fact, a moment of silent reflection on what we as an audience have just heard is exactly what is in order.
"When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job."
No, it simply means you've a blissfully ignorant, immature audience.


Um.. not to bust your balls, but that used to happen all the time back then hahahahaha
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#2142416 - 09/01/13 06:26 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Louis Podesta Offline
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Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 745
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.


There is a God.

In terms of applause, it is supposed to be, using the British slang, about the music. Nothing else matters.

Sure, their are agents out their who can school you on how to get a rise out of any audience. That is not the point, here.

Regarding your mention of the Chopin Sonata, my dear friend Carey just could get over the beauty of the following link of this particular recording of this piece.

The reason I shared this with him (besides the obvious 19th century method of playing) was the improvised repeat in the slow movement. What I did not share with him is that the performer learned the piece from Leschetizky, and maybe, just maybe (Oh no! The Urtext Mob) that this may have been the way Chopin originally wrote it.

Enjoy, and, once again, thanks for your more than incitful post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KeyWkF158

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#2142451 - 09/01/13 07:31 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: stores]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: stores
....I've sat next to you before....

I assume you mean "you" in a metaphoric sense. grin

duh

Well what can I tell you.....I've never noticed you writing metaphorically before. grin

Quote:
Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them)....

As you gain more experience in music, you will see what we're talking about regarding this piece. ha

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#2142465 - 09/01/13 07:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: stores]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4835
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: stores

NOoooooooooooooooo!!!!! I CAN'T STAND THAT!!!! Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them), but I am SOOOOOOOO sick and tired of people doing this for practically every work on the programme. Applause is great. There isn't a performer who doesn't crave it (we are all egomaniacs), but, though the music deserves applause, more often than not, in fact, a moment of silent reflection on what we as an audience have just heard is exactly what is in order.
"When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job."
No, it simply means you've a blissfully ignorant, immature audience.


Woah, man.

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#2142467 - 09/01/13 07:58 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4835
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Quote:
Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them)....

As you gain more experience in music, you will see what we're talking about regarding this piece. ha


"DEFINITELY NOT one of them"

heh

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#2142472 - 09/01/13 08:10 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Kuanpiano Offline
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The overwhelming feeling I get when studying, listening to, and playing Chopin's 3rd is gratifying warmth. While the finale has bravura elements, it's not all that flashy. While I don't expect a moment of silence after that final ringing B major chord (like I would in the Liszt sonata), I think a healthy and full applause, not a pouring of cheers and applause, is more suitable.

Just my opinion!
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#2142477 - 09/01/13 08:23 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
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It really all depends on how pumped up you get from the performance. A fantastic performance of any grand work will make a crowd go wild most of the time, and rightfully so.

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#2142481 - 09/01/13 08:26 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Kuanpiano Offline
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And it also depends on what aspects of the piece you want too! For example, if Katsaris performs the finale...well he wants the standing ovation and all the roaring. But the conception of the work by the older Gilels....well I feel like his performances brings the Sonata almost to the heights of late Beethoven, rather than inviting comparisons to a Liszt rhapsody.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#2142482 - 09/01/13 08:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4835
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
And it also depends on what aspects of the piece you want too! For example, if Katsaris performs the finale...well he wants the standing ovation and all the roaring. But the conception of the work by the older Gilels....well I feel like his performances brings the Sonata almost to the heights of late Beethoven, rather than inviting comparisons to a Liszt rhapsody.


Why does a piece have to be a showpiece for the crowd to go wild? If Gilels doesn't feel that the performance should be responded to in that way, the audience may.

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#2142495 - 09/01/13 08:59 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
FSO Offline
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Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...really, *really* well...would it not be insensitive (in the truer sense of the word) of an audience to scream and holler? Um...I think appreciation *should* be felt by the music...when an audience cheers they show their appreciation for the *performer* and, really, personally, that strikes me as vulgar. Just my opinion, of course (and I find a lot of things vulgar wink )...but silences are for the music, cheering is for people.
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2142502 - 09/01/13 09:21 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
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Originally Posted By: FSO
Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...really, *really* well...would it not be insensitive (in the truer sense of the word) of an audience to scream and holler? Um...I think appreciation *should* be felt by the music...when an audience cheers they show their appreciation for the *performer* and, really, personally, that strikes me as vulgar. Just my opinion, of course (and I find a lot of things vulgar wink )...but silences are for the music, cheering is for people.


I'm not familiar with that piece, but I get the gist of what you're saying. Why do you find appreciation for the performer vulgar? To be frank, I think that's stupid and a little rude. There's nothing wrong with giving the performer praise. It's a transaction, you see. The performer gives the audience an emotional reaction and the audience gives them praise, feeding their egos in return. If your argument is that we should appreciate the music, guess what - we do - the entire duration of the piece. Only after it's over do we praise the performer.

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#2142521 - 09/01/13 10:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
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You're not familiar with...oh....oh my... laugh I don't like praise. I've mentioned it earlier in this thread and...to be honest, if you're viewing music as a transaction then, in my opinion, you're viewing music...just...all wrong. I mean, maybe just the performance aspect, I don't know...um...it's like when people in my house leave their used plates, cutlery and glasses around. I don't clean it up when they're around out of fear of being thanked. I'll clean it up when they're out of the room and be ready for it to get dirty the next day. I mean...it's not about the praise, I don't want them to feel like they owe me some token of gratitude...I'd rather do it invisibly and silently as, to me, um, it's just something I feel I can do that'll help them. If I were to do it for the thanks I wouldn't be doing it for them at all...it'd...well, it'd be some bid for attention, or...or...I don't know....anyway! laugh Um...extrapolating to music; if the audience really feel the music...*really* feel it, they should, surely, be stilled such that they can't move for minutes, or at least seconds laugh Instead...I'm going to express this incorrectly, I'm sure, but...they cheer the performer. They thank the performer for bringing this music and I accept that it's a form of gratitude, in some respects, and gratitude is good enough in its own right...but, um, so soon? Is the music forgotten *so* quickly? "the entire duration of the piece"...and no longer? I...that's besides the point though. I enjoy that the internet separates the performer from the audience; how they will appreciate the music far more than the performer...I think the performer should...no, sorry, I prefer the performer to receive none of the praise for the music. I *loathe* applause. I feel the performer should be invisible and, in the case of applause, is the performer expected to soak it all in, to stand there, bowing, like some idol...I don't know, it just....it strikes me as vulgar. Mostly, I must say, on the part of the performer. They shouldn't want praise, they shouldn't want to be admired; music should be the thing they're sharing, for free (I believe music shouldn't be a profitable business, just as a side note). It should be a gift not a...not a *transaction*. As such, it is vulgar on the part of audience, in the smallest possible way, to assume that the performer is doing this for recognition and glory. I recognise you consider it rude but this is my *opinion*. Profanity is vulgar too....it doesn't stop me f-ing and jeffing all day every day. Applause detracts from the music and maybe it's just my opinion, but I hate that; I love music. I hate all the barriers that get in the way of the appreciation of music and, as such, I hate the separation between performer and audience....I'm probably expressing this *all* wrong laugh I also recognise many here have a nigh on polar opposite opinion to mine; they love the adulation. I'll be fair and say my displeasure at receiving praise is likely the root of my finding public expressions of appreciation as foul. I don't think it *is* vulgar, I *find* it vulgar....clearer? laugh At the least, you must admit, clapping and the like is terribly obnoxious...at least with respect to an *audio* form of art....kind of like scrawling all over a painting in a luminous highlighter...
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2142534 - 09/01/13 10:28 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Michael Sayers]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: riley80
I think this inter-movement applause is here to stay, along with standing ovations. Whaddayagonnado? Spell it out in the programs? It's bad enough when you have to put 'disable cellphones' in the program - my chorus had to do it and STILL, you'd hear at least one call per performance ring thru.


The best thing is to build a Faraday cage into the construction of every concert and recital hall or temporarily wrap one around the building for performance dates. Then the cell phone issue is solved!



I've heard that in a few countries, they do have cell-phone disabling tech built into concert halls.

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#2142537 - 09/01/13 10:36 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: FSO
Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...really, *really* well...would it not be insensitive (in the truer sense of the word) of an audience to scream and holler? Um...I think appreciation *should* be felt by the music...when an audience cheers they show their appreciation for the *performer* and, really, personally, that strikes me as vulgar. Just my opinion, of course (and I find a lot of things vulgar wink )...but silences are for the music, cheering is for people.


I'm not familiar with that piece, but I get the gist of what you're saying. Why do you find appreciation for the performer vulgar? To be frank, I think that's stupid and a little rude. There's nothing wrong with giving the performer praise. It's a transaction, you see. The performer gives the audience an emotional reaction and the audience gives them praise, feeding their egos in return. If your argument is that we should appreciate the music, guess what - we do - the entire duration of the piece. Only after it's over do we praise the performer.

Well, FSO and I are trying to say that it's piece-specific. If you've heard the Albinoni, then you don't want a big applause the end. Just like the applause here completely ruins the effect the performers were trying to get across:



(fantastic performance of the whole work, but ouch the ending!)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#2142543 - 09/01/13 10:51 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.


NOoooooooooooooooo!!!!! I CAN'T STAND THAT!!!! Yes, there are a few pieces that propel you out of your seat (Op. 58 is DEFINITELY NOT one of them), but I am SOOOOOOOO sick and tired of people doing this for practically every work on the programme. Applause is great. There isn't a performer who doesn't crave it (we are all egomaniacs), but, though the music deserves applause, more often than not, in fact, a moment of silent reflection on what we as an audience have just heard is exactly what is in order.
"When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job."
No, it simply means you've a blissfully ignorant, immature audience.


Um.. not to bust your balls, but that used to happen all the time back then hahahahaha


I know. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142545 - 09/01/13 10:53 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: gooddog
I love the silence before the applause.


I love this, but I much prefer when the audience CAN'T WAIT to clap. For instance, at the end of Chopin sonata 3, after that last chord, when the audience bursts into applause before the chord is release, that really moves me. There's a special energy about that. Same for Chopin concerto 1 at the competitions. When the audience claps before the orchestral part is over, you know you've done a great job.


There is a God.

In terms of applause, it is supposed to be, using the British slang, about the music. Nothing else matters.

Sure, their are agents out their who can school you on how to get a rise out of any audience. That is not the point, here.

Regarding your mention of the Chopin Sonata, my dear friend Carey just could get over the beauty of the following link of this particular recording of this piece.

The reason I shared this with him (besides the obvious 19th century method of playing) was the improvised repeat in the slow movement. What I did not share with him is that the performer learned the piece from Leschetizky, and maybe, just maybe (Oh no! The Urtext Mob) that this may have been the way Chopin originally wrote it.

Enjoy, and, once again, thanks for your more than incitful post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KeyWkF158


What the helll does this have to do with applause?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142546 - 09/01/13 10:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

As you gain more experience in music, you will see what we're talking about regarding this piece.


I learned it many years ago. Of course, we ALL are gaining more experience all the time (well, hopefully).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2142565 - 09/01/13 11:20 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: stores]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Nice answer!

(It could have turned into a ___ing contest.) grin

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#2142591 - 09/02/13 12:39 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6114
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Between movements? Very annoying...
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2142705 - 09/02/13 08:27 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Praeludium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 91
Loc: Besançon, France
Kuanpiano -> Ouch, it's heartbreaking... I used to think it doesn't matter much whether or not the public applause immediatly after the end of the piece or not but this was horrible to watch.


Edited by Praeludium (09/02/13 08:27 AM)

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#2142786 - 09/02/13 12:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: FSO
Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...

I'm not familiar with that piece, but I get the gist of what you're saying.

Joel, are you sure? It's one of the more famous themes in classical music, and is often heard in movies, commercials, etc. Maybe you are familiar with it, but just don't know it. smile

(And, OT, Albinoni gets too much credit for it. It was really composed by Remo Giazotto. He was a musicologist and Albinoni biographer, who discovered a small fragment of it after WWII, and then "finished it off". I think Remo was way too generous in attributing it to Albinoni. "Giazotto's Adagio in G Minor" would be more accurate.)

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#2142790 - 09/02/13 12:42 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: ChopinAddict]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Between movements? Very annoying...


I once played Brahms op. 118 in a recital where the audience clapped between EACH ONE.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2142791 - 09/02/13 12:46 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Old Man]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: FSO
Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...

I'm not familiar with that piece, but I get the gist of what you're saying.

Joel, are you sure? It's one of the more famous themes in classical music, and is often heard in movies, commercials, etc. Maybe you are familiar with it, but just don't know it. smile

(And, OT, Albinoni gets too much credit for it. It was really composed by Remo Giazotto. He was a musicologist and Albinoni biographer, who discovered a small fragment of it after WWII, and then "finished it off". I think Remo was way too generous in attributing it to Albinoni. "Giazotto's Adagio in G Minor" would be more accurate.)


How about "Albinoni-Giazotto Adagio in G Minor"?


M.

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#2142792 - 09/02/13 12:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Michael Sayers]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: FSO
Let's say Albinoni's adagio in G minor is performed...

I'm not familiar with that piece, but I get the gist of what you're saying.

Joel, are you sure? It's one of the more famous themes in classical music, and is often heard in movies, commercials, etc. Maybe you are familiar with it, but just don't know it. smile

(And, OT, Albinoni gets too much credit for it. It was really composed by Remo Giazotto. He was a musicologist and Albinoni biographer, who discovered a small fragment of it after WWII, and then "finished it off". I think Remo was way too generous in attributing it to Albinoni. "Giazotto's Adagio in G Minor" would be more accurate.)


How about "Albinoni-Giazotto Adagio in G Minor"?


M.

Any way you slice it is fine with me. It's a gorgeous piece of music, regardless of who wrote it. smile

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#2142793 - 09/02/13 12:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kreisler]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
[...] I own probably 200 books I purchased while in school, and read twice that amount from libraries and journals. I know a lot of students who own maybe 10 books and barely skim articles once, much less re-read them in an effort to fully understand them. I still read, although not quite as much as I did back then. My latest reading includes David Byrne's "How Music Works", which covers many of the same issues, albeit from a different point of view. Kenneth Hamilton is also on the Kindle ready to go, and Matthew Guerrieri's "The First Four Notes" is up next.


I am currently reading "History and Historians: A Historiographical Introduction" by Mark T. Gilderhus, on the recommendation of my son, who was a history major, and who left this small text at home between moves. smirk "Historical consciousness" and "philosophy of history" are main topics, as is the way history is used to shape sides in culture wars. It's a fascinating overview about the history of thinking about and interpreting history, and at 156 pages, it's quite accessible. My son recommended it when I asked him how historians, in particular, assess lenses and filters when trying to make sense of things.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2142799 - 09/02/13 12:53 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kreisler]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
[...] This thread suffers from the fact that people are trying to cover a lot of different issues:

1) Personal preference when you like to applaud or receive applause

2) What the protocol for applause should be.

3) What the protocol for applause has been in the past.

4) Geographical/demographic differences in applause protocol.

5) The effect programming has on applause

[...]


Wait a minute! You missed one!

6) My pocket square.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2142804 - 09/02/13 01:06 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Between movements? Very annoying...


I once played Brahms op. 118 in a recital where the audience clapped between EACH ONE.


Maybe what is needed is a special sign controlled by a lever the pianist has access to and which flips back and forth for "applause" and "no applause" (and sometimes just for fun the pianist could have it flip back and forth inappropriately laugh ).


M.

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#2142825 - 09/02/13 01:59 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Michael Sayers]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Between movements? Very annoying...


I once played Brahms op. 118 in a recital where the audience clapped between EACH ONE.


Maybe what is needed is a special sign controlled by a lever the pianist has access to and which flips back and forth for "applause" and "no applause" (and sometimes just for fun the pianist could have it flip back and forth inappropriately laugh ).


M.


We need one of those in church to help get the congregation to clap on 2 and 4 instead of 1 and 3. It would be a start, anyway.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2143180 - 09/02/13 11:51 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
EttaBuchhen Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 2
Cell phone signal jammer is an interesting and helpful device when we don’t want to be bothered by the cell phone noise. I just bought myself a cell phone signal jammer the other day,it is working great and BTW, it’s legal here in my country.


Edited by EttaBuchhen (09/02/13 11:52 PM)

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#2143186 - 09/03/13 12:13 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: EttaBuchhen]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: EttaBuchhen
Cell phone signal jammer is an interesting and helpful device when we don’t want to be bothered by the cell phone noise. I just bought myself a cell phone signal jammer the other day,it is working great and BTW, it’s legal here in my country.


+1000!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2143293 - 09/03/13 07:32 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
When I went to hear Steven Osborne do Messiaen's 20 Peeps, he gave us our applause instructions before he began playing (which some of the audience didn't follow too well).

He said that he really would have preferred no applause at all, even at the end, but when he spoke with his wife about the idea, she talked him out of it. IIRC, she said it would be a silly thing to do.

Far from being silly, it would have been great, IMO.

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#2143305 - 09/03/13 08:11 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Back in the days when I did play for others, I always found applause to be a pretty strange thing. It really IS a pretty strange thing, if you think about it. How did "I liked what you just did" get translated into repeatedly making a sharp popping noise by slapping the palms together? Bizarre...

I don't really understand why the audience should be doing anything at all, except to listen. Yes, I know, applause is part of various public rituals, but having been in audiences that applauded enthusiastically and stood up for pretty ordinary performances, it has become clear that, many times, the ritual has become a pro forma response that is oddly disconnected from the performance itself. It has become more about the crowd wanting to be part of a crowd doing that crowd ritual, than having any strong connection to the performance.

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#2143360 - 09/03/13 10:20 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: wr]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5308
Originally Posted By: wr

I don't really understand why the audience should be doing anything at all, except to listen. Yes, I know, applause is part of various public rituals, but having been in audiences that applauded enthusiastically and stood up for pretty ordinary performances, it has become clear that, many times, the ritual has become a pro forma response that is oddly disconnected from the performance itself. It has become more about the crowd wanting to be part of a crowd doing that crowd ritual, than having any strong connection to the performance.



Nowadays people feel they should be participants - anyone who goes to pop concerts know that. Doesn't matter how far you are from the stage, just sing along. Doesn't matter if you sing out of tune (or even if you're singing the same song, just feel the vibe! grin (After all, that singer on the stage has his/her auto-tune machine on, or is miming to something pre-recorded......)

In classical concerts, some people like to show off that they know when the ending is about to come, and anticipate the conclusion by shouting 'Bravo!' at the same time as the closing chord. No matter if the ending is contemplative, or tragic. Feel the vibe! grin

No wonder Dudley Moore's parody of Beethoven's desperate attempt to finish off his "Sonata" (? 5th Symphony) with V-I-V-I-V7-I-V7b-I ad infinitum strikes home...

http://youtu.be/0l3hq4G1iHs
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2143368 - 09/03/13 10:51 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: wr]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: wr
Back in the days when I did play for others, I always found applause to be a pretty strange thing. It really IS a pretty strange thing, if you think about it. How did "I liked what you just did" get translated into repeatedly making a sharp popping noise by slapping the palms together? Bizarre...


I checked Wikipedia on clapping - as it turns out there is concert music which consists of clapping. I suppose one could have "full" clapping (palm to palm), "1/2" clapping (fingers to palm) and "1/4" clapping (fingers to fingers), and even get down to individual fingers clapping together ("1/16" clapping). It is not intended as criticism - after all I am not an expert at clapping - but in my belief there is a bit of impression and inconsistency in the clapping techniques and timbres used in this clip wink

Steve Reich - Clapping Music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcFyl8amoEE

Elsewhere at Wikipedia it reads:

"Mozart expected that people would eat and talk over his music, particularly at dinner, and was delighted when his audience would clap during his symphonies. Mahler clamped down on claques paid to applaud a particular performer, and specified in the score of his Kindertotenlieder that its movements should not be punctuated by applause. Wagner discouraged what he considered distracting noises from his audience at Bayreuth in 1882."

I've always thought that the pianist gives the signal to clap by no longer having the hands hovering over the keys and dissolving the appearance of resolute focus, and in this way can even prevent clapping between movements - this is the procedure I've always used effectively but maybe audiences have become less inhibited?

p.s. - the changes in convention over this were swifter with French drama thanks to Voltaire and the 250 000 pamphlets he distributed ridiculing particular behaviours during theatre performances!


M.

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#2144311 - 09/04/13 10:35 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
EttaBuchhen Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Nice answer!

(It could have turned into a ___ing contest.) grin


Cell phone signal jammer is an interesting and helpful device when we don’t want to be bothered by the cell phone noise. I just bought myself a cell phone signal jammer the other day,it is working great and BTW, it’s legal here in my country.

Top
#2144314 - 09/04/13 10:46 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: EttaBuchhen]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Did you think your post had something to do with mine? grin

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#2144325 - 09/04/13 11:12 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: EttaBuchhen]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: EttaBuchhen
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Nice answer!

(It could have turned into a ___ing contest.) grin


Cell phone signal jammer is an interesting and helpful device when we don’t want to be bothered by the cell phone noise. I just bought myself a cell phone signal jammer the other day,it is working great and BTW, it’s legal here in my country.


It could have turned into a ringing contest.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2144327 - 09/04/13 11:15 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Methinks Etta is a jammer spammer. grin

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#2144329 - 09/04/13 11:19 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Methinks Etta is a jammer spammer. grin


Ah, well, if she is, then she probably thought you meant, "ringtone" contest.

Gotta give her credit for chiming in on the topic in context!

Welcome to PW, Etta! wink
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2144334 - 09/04/13 11:27 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
....chiming in....

Got it. grin

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#2144363 - 09/05/13 12:13 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: EttaBuchhen]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Wilkommen Etta!!!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2144375 - 09/05/13 12:41 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
JadedImpressions Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 2
My teacher told me that I should bow after every complete piece, when the audience claps. But I think it's a bit awkward to stand up every time and bow, especially when there's not a lot of people clapping/ small clapping. Maybe I like applause too much. laugh

- Jenny

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#2144377 - 09/05/13 12:44 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JadedImpressions]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: JadedImpressions
My teacher told me that I should bow after every complete piece, when the audience claps. But I think it's a bit awkward to stand up every time and bow, especially when there's not a lot of people clapping/ small clapping. Maybe I like applause too much. laugh

- Jenny


It's not possible to like all that love "too much"...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

Top
#2144380 - 09/05/13 12:48 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JadedImpressions]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: JadedImpressions
My teacher told me that I should bow after every complete piece, when the audience claps. But I think it's a bit awkward to stand up every time and bow, especially when there's not a lot of people clapping/ small clapping. Maybe I like applause too much. laugh

- Jenny

Take what you can get, Jenny! grin Nods suffice, sometimes... But bows are grand! And practicing bows is necessary and good! If you get it, give it!!!


Edited by Cinnamonbear (09/05/13 12:51 AM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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