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#2141577 - 08/30/13 10:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141579 - 08/30/13 10:45 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


...or when you've just scared the excrement right down their collective legs, and they are paralyzed for no apparent reason.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141585 - 08/30/13 10:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


...or when you've just scared the excrement right down their collective legs, and they are paralyzed for no apparent reason.


Blecch.

Personally, I don't use fear to communicate. Never have. Don't intend to start. I don't seek it, and it doesn't seek me.

Love, peace, healing and joy. That's where I like to hang out. I'll fight if I have to, but only if provoked.


Edited by Cinnamonbear (08/30/13 11:02 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141588 - 08/30/13 11:02 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Bear Darling,

It's not about you per se, it's about the composer, and the work performed. People ought to be terrified by the time you finish the Prokofiev Toccata, or the 7th Sonata, or the Chopin 2nd sonata, or the 4th Ballade, or the Apassionata, and so forth.

I could go on...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141590 - 08/30/13 11:04 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Go right ahead. I'm not tuned to stuff that evokes terror.

Thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141592 - 08/30/13 11:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.













Thankyouverymuch.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141613 - 08/31/13 12:12 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thankyouverymuch.


...mais bien sûr, chér ami, OF COURSE IT IS!!!

How could I be so thoughtless, quelle idée!

Give me a moment. We'll stop talking about you, and I'll start saying how much I like your dress...

...(old singer joke)...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141673 - 08/31/13 05:50 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5116
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


I've been to a few concerts where that's happened - and which the performer(s) really appreciated.

Th first was a few years ago (OK, a very long time ago), when Karajan conducted his Berliner Philharmoniker in Mahler's 6th Symphony. After the shattering conclusion, the orchestra stayed still, the conductor stayed facing the orchestra with head bowed; and the audience couldn't move with the impact of what they'd heard, and experienced. After about a minute of silence, Karajan slowly nodded to the orchestra and turned round. The applause started, but was muted, only rising after Karajan had been called back.

The last was at the conclusion of Pollini's Beethoven piano sonata cycle in London a few years ago, finishing with Op.111. His other-worldly control of the arch of the Arietta and the perfection of his playing (not least in the evenness of the long chains of trills) really did seem like he'd taken us with him to see a glimpse of heaven before bringing us gently back down to earth. Many people in the audience had attended every one of his Beethoven Sonatas concerts, but for the first time nobody jumped to their feet immediately to start applauding. Pollini kept his hands on the keyboard long after sound of the final chord had died away, and for what seemed an eternity, there was dead silence. Until Pollini nodded with evident gratitude for the audience's silence, and stood up.......
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2141792 - 08/31/13 11:57 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes


I could make a million mistakes, but as long as I hit the last big tonic chord, somewhere in the house I can hear applause.


Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141832 - 08/31/13 01:35 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
jdw Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 971
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg


Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.


And it's a great one if you can still use the piano again after.

_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Grieg, Papillon
Mozart, K 330
Brahms, Op. 118 no. 2

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#2141834 - 08/31/13 01:38 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 723
I suggest that you read Kenneth Hamilton's book "After the Golden Age."

It is an extensive discussion of how people initially performed, where they performed, and how the audiences reacted. Applauding between movements was commonplace, and if you really hit it out of the park, they started clapping before you finished your piece or orchestral work.

Just a suggestion that I thought some of you might want to know about. The NY Times gave it a glowing review based on this unique comprehensive analysis of 19th century performance practice.

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#2141851 - 08/31/13 02:38 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta


It is an extensive discussion of how people initially performed, where they performed, and how the audiences reacted. Applauding between movements was commonplace, and if you really hit it out of the park, they started clapping before you finished your piece or orchestral work.

Common knowledge, surely? Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers being shushed during performances of their own works to ensure the notion that the middle classes de-popularised classical music with the polarity with which they insisted the music must be attributed with regards to earnestness, no?
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2141856 - 08/31/13 03:03 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7601
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers...

Was there ANY way in which the "um" was helpful? Would the sentence not have worked just as well without it?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141928 - 08/31/13 06:20 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 723
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!

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#2141942 - 08/31/13 07:05 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
It IS common knowledge, actually - I don't understand why you don't believe that.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141945 - 08/31/13 07:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4794
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Most of the time, (about 99%), applause makes me very uncomfortable because I'm consistently appalled at how I played. I know my friends are applauding my courage and hard work not the quality of the music so I feel like a fraud. In my third public recital ever at age 57, I thought I played well, (Bach D minor concerto, first movement). I received loud and long applause, (and some bravas), from an informed audience of people who did not know me. I was stunned, very appreciative and so excited, I couldn't fall asleep that night. It was an intoxicating feeling I would like to repeat but so far, my performances have been, IMO, disasters.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#2141971 - 08/31/13 08:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: gooddog]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
"It was an intoxicating feeling I would like to repeat..."

..as often as possible, please.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142004 - 08/31/13 10:41 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin

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#2142015 - 08/31/13 11:00 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
BTW, if you haven't already noticed, it's ALWAYS about me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thankyouverymuch.


...mais bien sûr, chér ami, OF COURSE IT IS!!!

How could I be so thoughtless, quelle idée!

Give me a moment. We'll stop talking about you, and I'll start saying how much I like your dress...

...(old singer joke)...


Dress!?! crazy Puh-lease! You *may* talk about how much you like my pocket square, though...

Click to reveal..




Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2142017 - 08/31/13 11:01 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin


Mark, please do continue with your idea about starting a thread on that Beethoven, with all your ideas about it. It just isn't played often enough, and it needs all the support it can get.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142026 - 08/31/13 11:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
....please do continue with your idea about starting a thread on that Beethoven, with all your ideas about it. It just isn't played often enough, and it needs all the support it can get.

You may not agree with anything I said grin but here we go.

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#2142030 - 08/31/13 11:49 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Mark, thanks for that link! It doesn't matter what I or anyone else think. It's your thread. Have at it. You can have an argument later on in that thread if Kismet say so.


..and I don't think you're on the wrong track at all...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2142058 - 09/01/13 12:38 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.

I closed a concert with the Liszt sonata, and after a brutal start, it was actually pretty successful. But there was a long pause between the last note and the applause (or it felt really long!). That was a really gratifying moment.

The weird thing about playing long pieces is that....well when I began the andante sostenuto coda, I just was sort of in disbelief...that 25 minutes had already passed. Sometimes the music just carries you away with it.

I wasn't really able to receive the applause though, I was so exhausted. I took a bow, then sat back down on the bench as another friend announced the end of the concert (it was not that formal). I had already played the Franck violin sonata, accompanied a flute piece, and after the Liszt I could barely stand... and was I ever in big trouble with some other engineering projects that were due a few days later!
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
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#2142095 - 09/01/13 03:13 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Kuanpiano]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 142
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Actually, what I *really* like is when there is NO applause, after you have just played a ponderously deep, meditative piece, and the audience is right there with you in meditative silence. Now *that* is the bee's knees.


I love the roar of applause at the end when it's appropriate, say Bruckner's 8th Symphony or something like that, but I must agree with you here. I remember the NY crowd exploding in a chorus of bravo's and whistles at the end of Mahler's 6th Symphony (NYP/Lorin Maazel)...and oh, that struck me so inappropriate and marred what was a truly great performance (and yes a terrifying performance).

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano

I closed a concert with the Liszt sonata, and after a brutal start, it was actually pretty successful. But there was a long pause between the last note and the applause (or it felt really long!). That was a really gratifying moment.

The weird thing about playing long pieces is that....well when I began the andante sostenuto coda, I just was sort of in disbelief...that 25 minutes had already passed. Sometimes the music just carries you away with it.


Back in January 2012 I started playing recitals at retirement centers for a program called Music for Seniors. My first concert I "warmed up" with the Liszt Sonata, and I "cooled down" with the last movement of the Beethoven/Liszt 9th Symphony. before the andante sostenuto coda, right at the cut of or the big dominant 7th, they all started clapping. But one old man was either knowledgeable enough or perceptive enough, and shooshed every body by saying, "SHUT UP, HE'S NOT FINISHED!"

(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece! I'll bet you were exhausted after that recital!)
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2142098 - 09/01/13 03:36 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: D. S. F.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7601
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece!

Frank's Violin Sonata? Never heard of the guy.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2142103 - 09/01/13 03:59 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
(Frank's Violin Sonata is such a great piece!

Frank's Violin Sonata? Never heard of the guy.


Here is how the composer's name should be spelled along with a nice rendition of the piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIlPaqmcklk

The poster missed the "c" in Franck.

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#2142132 - 09/01/13 05:42 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1126
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...enough anecdotes exist about composers...

Was there ANY way in which the "um" was helpful? Would the sentence not have worked just as well without it?


Polyphonist, it does appear that the word "um" is used also in one of your sentences . . . (oops, I did it too!) wink


M.

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#2142155 - 09/01/13 07:57 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Louis Podesta]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1126
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing.

As a social activist philosopher, I was emailing back and forth to a reporter in the New York Bureau of the Associated Press. It had absolutely nothing to do with music.

But, in the young journalists response, I get this circular happy face icon.

So, until I find that someone has actually read Kenneth Hamilton's book, and can cite chapter and verse regarding performance practice, including audience applause, then I will delay on my email back to him regarding this website.

The internet does not necessarily make anyone equal!


Hi Louis, the issue is that this being an academic subject it has little appeal as a news story. Best in the newspaper area would be to bring some music critics on board with it . . . but what are they, or is anyone else, supposed to do? I just don't understand what it is that you realistically expect to transpire as an outcome.

As with Ervin Nyiregyhazi, he received tremendous press in the 1970s and made recordings, yet in the professional music world what has changed as a result?

p.s. - With Nyiregyhazi, according to Raymond Lewenthal's recollections of hearing him perform in the 1940s, audiences would scream, shout, stomp their shoes on the ground, make waves around the halls, and in general behave as though they were audiences to American football games!


M.

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#2142163 - 09/01/13 08:43 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1126
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Unfortunately, here we go again. And, you wonder why musicologists and concert pianists, real concert pianists, do not post here?

And also unfortunately, yesterday, I found out that this is generational, Mark C., and that is not a good thing....

If anybody has any idea what this has to do with me, I'll be quite interested. grin


Maybe it is addressed to a different Mark C.? laugh


M.

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#2142227 - 09/01/13 11:47 AM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
riley80 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 381
Loc: Florida
I think this inter-movement applause is here to stay, along with standing ovations. Whaddayagonnado? Spell it out in the programs? It's bad enough when you have to put 'disable cellphones' in the program - my chorus had to do it and STILL, you'd hear at least one call per performance ring thru.

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