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#2140553 - 08/29/13 04:04 AM Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Everyone,

This was just recently uploaded to youtube. Whatever anyone thinks about Nyiregyhazi's interpretations, the tremolando section which starts a little after 10:15 is from a purely pianistic point of view amazing in terms of sound!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLk6vqaxU1Y


M.

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#2140685 - 08/29/13 12:00 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Thanks so much for that!

Nyiregyhazi's story is such a sad one, and quite the cautionary tale for budding prodigies and their families.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140688 - 08/29/13 12:04 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: laguna_greg]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19299
Loc: New York
I think it's a cautionary tale for lack of easier mental health treatment.

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#2140702 - 08/29/13 12:17 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Mark_C]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
that's what I meant to say
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140718 - 08/29/13 12:31 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
I just focus on Ervin's piano playing and compositions, not his interpersonal relationships . . . the same as with Bobby Fischer's chess games, and Wagner's music dramas.

M.

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#2141130 - 08/30/13 01:55 AM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2505
@Michael,

The link you posted above is an excellent example which demonstrates Nyiregyhazi's unique ability of bringing out those long sustained melodic lines. And, the raw power is there, too.

Also, have you had a chance to watch this live concert, here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcqb4VaAq3I

And, here is a really interesting "Mephisto Waltz"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzW7RH0cgY

It is part Busoni's version and Liszt's, combined.

Extra note:

Here's some more astounding playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEMOYMZABvE

Have to wonder why no one has attempted to upload the "March of the Three Holy Kings" from Liszt's "Christus" in the transcription by Nyiregyhazi?

That performance is included in the original 2-LP record set, here:

http://www.amazon.com/Nyiregyhazi-Proces...rds=nyiregyhazi

Would like see the above 2-LP set released to CD.

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#2141343 - 08/30/13 12:17 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Nyiregyhazi's recordings will always be controversial because on the one hand it is impressive that he could walk into a church after decades without owning a piano (did he ever own one?) and play Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy and Fugue as he did, and also the Liszt Legendes, and on the other hand the mistakes he makes in some recordings with rhythmic accuracy and the notes (including in that straight-forward block chord section of the 2nd Legend) are ones that would be hard for most pianists to do even intentionally whether the music had been practiced or was only in the mind.

p.s. - I have a friend who is working to get ahold of whatever is available of a Grieg piano concerto recording with Nyiregyhazi as the soloist from many decades earlier. I tried to do this when I lived in the U.S. but with no luck - the film and recording archive didn't even answer my emails (at least they could have said, "no, it can't be made available just for private circulation and enjoyment, sorry!").


M.




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#2141457 - 08/30/13 04:17 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3252
Interesting playing. He makes a large sound even when playing soft, but partially that might be because of the 'vibrato' due to the recording process smile Interesting to hear the subtile timing differences in the different voices. His fortissimos sound like the piano is exploding laugh
_________________________

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#2141488 - 08/30/13 06:10 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
I have heard a little Nyierighazi on YouTube and read what is, I think, the only biography of him.

While some seem impressed with the huge sound he sometimes gets and this is often mentioned in regards to his playing, I don't see things that way. I've probably never heard a professional pianist who I felt couldn't play loud enough for the performance venue, and I don't see why some make such a plus out of his ability to play loudly.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/30/13 06:15 PM)

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#2141495 - 08/30/13 06:21 PM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: pianoloverus]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2232
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I have heard a little Nyierighazi on YouTube and read what is, I think, the only biography of him.

While some seem impressed with the huge sound he sometimes gets and this is often mentioned in regards to his playing, I don't see things that way. I've probably never heard a professional pianist who I felt couldn't play loud enough for the performance venue, and I don't see why some make such a plus out of his ability to play loudly.


It's clear that Ervin was eccentric to the point of being uncontrollable, and much of his music-making is incoherent garbage.. but then when you least expect it, you get these moments of a touch and tone that's so poignant, so perfect, that for a brief moment you see nirvana. And it's heartbreaking that he couldn't be that good all the time.

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#2142172 - 09/01/13 09:20 AM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: pianoloverus]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I have heard a little Nyierighazi on YouTube and read what is, I think, the only biography of him.

While some seem impressed with the huge sound he sometimes gets and this is often mentioned in regards to his playing, I don't see things that way. I've probably never heard a professional pianist who I felt couldn't play loud enough for the performance venue, and I don't see why some make such a plus out of his ability to play loudly.


If any pianist can do something every other pianist can not do, that makes it impressive.

With Nyiregyhazi it is a man in his 70s who walks around with a cane who is getting that sound . . . I am not sure if other pianists can not do it or if they just do not want to.

I've heard plenty of pianists who do not play loudly enough so that a full orchestra doesn't in some bars have to hold back in order not to swamp the piano sound (and the piano still might get overwhelmed!), but with Nyiregyhazi an orchestra would never need to hold back.


M.

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#2142190 - 09/01/13 09:58 AM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: Michael Sayers]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I have heard a little Nyierighazi on YouTube and read what is, I think, the only biography of him.

While some seem impressed with the huge sound he sometimes gets and this is often mentioned in regards to his playing, I don't see things that way. I've probably never heard a professional pianist who I felt couldn't play loud enough for the performance venue, and I don't see why some make such a plus out of his ability to play loudly.
If any pianist can do something every other pianist can not do, that makes it impressive.
I think that's true only if what they can do is of some musical use. If a pianist can play a game of chess while performing is that impressive? For solo recitals, I can never remember hearing professional pianist who couldn't play loud enough.


Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
I've heard plenty of pianists who do not play loudly enough so that a full orchestra doesn't in some bars have to hold back in order not to swamp the piano sound (and the piano still might get overwhelmed!), but with Nyiregyhazi an orchestra would never need to hold back.
In terms of balance between the orchestra and soloist, one could just as easily argue that the orchestra was playing too loudly if it swamps the pianist. Those who rave about N's big sound are almost always talking about his solo playing because I don't think there are (m)any examples of his concerto playing. But I don't see the relevance of being able to play louder than necessary.

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#2142210 - 09/01/13 11:04 AM Re: Nyiregyhazi plays Vallee d'Obermann [Re: pianoloverus]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think that's true only if what they can do is of some musical use. If a pianist can play a game of chess while performing is that impressive? For solo recitals, I can never remember hearing professional pianist who couldn't play loud enough.


I've heard plenty of performers lacking in fortissimo - it seemed like the harder each tried to get there, the more contracted and brittle in timbre the piano sound became, and the orchestra simply obliterated the piano tone for this reason even though a full orchestral fortissimo was never reached.

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
In terms of balance between the orchestra and soloist, one could just as easily argue that the orchestra was playing too loudly if it swamps the pianist. Those who rave about N's big sound are almost always talking about his solo playing because I don't think there are (m)any examples of his concerto playing. But I don't see the relevance of being able to play louder than necessary.



Ideally a concerto pianist can hold his own with an orchestra - the orchestra should be able to surrender totally to the music and give all without the pianist being submerged. And if in a solo performance without orchestra a pianist is capable of producing a true fortissimo but doesn't give it, how is it ethical for him to accept being paid for the performance or in having an audience which takes the time to hear him when they could be doing something else?


M.


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