Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
92 registered (Anne'sson, anotherscott, accordeur, anamnesis, 27 invisible), 1308 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2143086 - 09/02/13 09:01 PM Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Does anyone know the best source for getting either a paper sheet book or high quality pdf for the Bach Inventions 772-786?

I need the fingering cues, but am not interested in any added ornamental notations. Does Schirmer's have the fingering?

Also, I would like a relatively large staff, since my eyes aren't the greatest. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2143531 - 09/03/13 04:48 PM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Hmm, guess I'm not the only one who doesn't really know the answer to your questions. My edition is Kalmus, which has some suggested fingerings. I haven't compared it with other editions, though.
_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Grieg, Papillon
Mozart, K 330
Brahms, Op. 118 no. 2

Top
#2143537 - 09/03/13 05:01 PM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.

Henle provides editions both with and without fingering, so by being careful about which publication number you buy, you can acquire fingerings that way. There won't be any ornaments added beyond what appears in the original sources.

If you can find these on sheetmusicplus.com, then you can look at the preview pages to gauge the staff size.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2143565 - 09/03/13 06:07 PM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: PianoStudent88]
Anne H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 156
Loc: New Orleans
Hmm...I have the Schirmer edition with the Czerny fingerings which I like, but the staff size isn't huge. I find it also does a good job with separating out ornaments and those kinds of things.
_________________________
Works in Progress:
Rachmaninoff: Prelude Op 23 No 4
Howl’s Moving Castle
Faure - Nocturne Op 36/4


Top
#2143607 - 09/03/13 07:19 PM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Richard Jones edited the ABRSM editions in both the Signature Series (Inventions and Sinfonias) and the Easier Piano Pieces series (just the Two Part Inventions).

The print is very clear in both editions and I tend to prefer them over Henle.

I have the Edition Peters with Czerny's fingerings and the Augener edition with Franklin Taylor's but I think that'll be out of print by now. Neither are as clear as the ABRSM editions.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143774 - 09/03/13 11:56 PM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: PianoStudent88]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.



I'm using this. Yes the fingerings are suggested, I don't really use them.
The print is so large that an invention typically covers 3 pages (rather than the usual 2 on musicnotes.com).
I usually photocopy the 3rd page so that I don't have to turn any pages when I play the invention.

Top
#2143911 - 09/04/13 08:17 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: custard apple]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2424
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.



I'm using this. Yes the fingerings are suggested, I don't really use them.
The print is so large that an invention typically covers 3 pages (rather than the usual 2 on musicnotes.com).
I usually photocopy the 3rd page so that I don't have to turn any pages when I play the invention.


I'm also using this edition and like the slightly larger format. The fingering suggestions are usually pretty good - there are a number of times I have thought, "nope, this will work better" and after a week go back to the one they suggested.
_________________________
  • Schumann - Ende vom Lied, Opus 12.8
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3

Top
#2143931 - 09/04/13 09:18 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Thanks for the replies, and I will look into all of this. I'm finding the fingering by far to be the single most important barrier to playing BWV 772. Since I'm already something of a piano hack without formal training, I find I can read these notes OK, and that my fingers are fluid enough to play them without too much trouble (at least at relatively slow tempos), but this Bach stuff is (of course) really, really cleverly designed, and if you don't finger them properly, it becomes "oops" I've run out of fingers...

...I reflexively use a 5 when I need a 4, or a 1 when I need a 2 at the beginning of a run, that sort of thing. I clearly have some very bad, sloppy fingering habits to unlearn and relearn.
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

Top
#2143938 - 09/04/13 09:51 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
One thing to do is to work out your fingerings slowly, carefully, with much going back and forth and revising measure by measure or even note by note as you work it out and discover you've run out of fingers a measure later. This is note by note, before you start practicing it. Then when you have a fingering that works, write it in and follow it. That will prevent accidentally running out of fingers.

The fun begins when there doesn't seem to be any fingering that doesn't run out of fingers... this is one of the reasons I like fingered editions, even when I modify their fingerings.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2144365 - 09/05/13 12:16 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: PianoStudent88]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 823
Loc: Finland
I have both the Henle and the Wiener Urtext with fingerings, I do prefer the latter, it's somehow easier for my eyes. But for more complete fingerings, you could check out the Busoni edition:
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/b/b2/IMSLP42098-PMLP03267-Inventions_Busoni.pdf

I usually have to figure out much of the fingerings myself anyway due to my hand shape...

Top
#2144450 - 09/05/13 04:01 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: Psychonaut]
peekay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 184
In Bach Inventions, there are many repeating patterns. So as much as possible, you want to use the same fingering for the same/similar patterns.

E.g., in BWV 772, for the right hand, rising notes might start with finger 1 and descending ones might start with the 4th finger (just before the next beat at the 3rd finger).

There are exceptions of course, but maybe 80% of the Invention might be fingered consistently in this way.

The more you notice these patterns, the more consistent / efficient your fingering will be. So you can build your fingering for whole patterns and even phrases, instead of note-by-note. This will help the musicality of your playing as well.


Edited by peekay (09/05/13 04:08 AM)
_________________________
Working on RCM Grade 8

Top
#2144504 - 09/05/13 08:58 AM Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question [Re: outo]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: outo
I have both the Henle and the Wiener Urtext with fingerings, I do prefer the latter, it's somehow easier for my eyes. But for more complete fingerings, you could check out the Busoni edition:
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/b/b2/IMSLP42098-PMLP03267-Inventions_Busoni.pdf

I usually have to figure out much of the fingerings myself anyway due to my hand shape...


Awesome resource, thank you! I went ahead and purchased a Czerny spiral-bound edition of both the two and three part Inventions, as well as a book called The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences from Alfred Publishing, but will definitely be exploring this Busoni pdf too.


Edited by Psychonaut (09/05/13 09:27 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Need help to choose a Digital Piano
by Hawkeye10
12/23/14 12:05 AM
Just Tuned a 1960's Kranich and Bach Studio upright
by Paul678
12/22/14 09:18 PM
How to learn everything and anything about piano?
by MrMusicianship
12/22/14 07:22 PM
is my piano tunable
by d3c0
12/22/14 05:45 PM
SSHD running VST
by daz100
12/22/14 05:01 PM
Forum Stats
77398 Members
42 Forums
160070 Topics
2350694 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission