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#2144367 - 09/05/13 12:17 AM Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
HI there-

I'll give you some background first, so you can get an idea:
In my piano search, I found an Ibach 1982 "Richard Strauss" 7ft grand piano at a Southern California dealership. All parts original. We negotiated a price of around $31,000 incl tax, assuming a tech gave it his/her approval. I loved both the tone and touch of the piano- of all the other pianos I have been playing in the past 6 months, this one spoke to me- and to my ears had a tone unlike any other piano I had played. I even tried more expensive, newer pianos of the same size in the store, but kept coming back to the Ibach. Technical-wise, upon playing it, it did not sound perfect- sounded like a few things might need to be replaced, mainly strings and hammers, but to my "consumer" (non-technician) ear, really not too bad. The piano would be for practicing and recording (not to record other clients, but my own music, which I would perform and produce myself).

I hired a very reputable tech who inspected and reported:
that it needs new strings, hammers, shanks, whippens, flanges, back checks, dampers bushings. The bridge has cracks/splits but they are fixable. And whomever owned it beforehand (1 owner), played it very hard. Also, chemicals had been applied to the pinblock, so that needs replaced. Sustain pedal also needs some work. Soundboard and crown are in good shape. Basically a candidate for a rebuild. Estimated total (rough estimate) was about $21,000.

I will bring this info to the dealer's attention, to see if they might budge on the price. The problem is right now I have enough money to buy the piano, but not to put any work into it.

Sorry for the long background- here are the questions - just wanted to get some more feedback:
1) What if I bought the piano and within the next 6 months only replaced, for example, the strings, dampers, back checks, hammers, and bushings?
2) Approx how much would that cost?
3) And would that make some sort of noticeable difference?
4) Then what if I possibly (depending on how the piano was sounding) got the other issues taken care of at a later date- possibly in a year or two or three? Or maybe never?
5) Would waiting that long to address the bridge, for example, cause further damage to the piano?
6) Is it just a bad idea to replace the aforementioned 5 parts without doing the whole shebang at the same time?

I know common sense says to find something else; however, I really loved the piano, which is why I'm trying to figure something out before giving up...
Also, since Ibach is no longer around (I think), the chances of me finding another one in better condition in the future seems slim (again, I think)

Does anyone have any advice here?
Thanks!!

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#2144451 - 09/05/13 04:03 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
hello, the main problem is the keyboard, on the ones I have seen, those where Petrof keyboards, made for a particular damper mechanism. (located under the b ack of the keys)

Then theback of the key frame is located approx under the capstan and not at the end of the cavity.

that make for key frames that are difficult to bed precisely and are not as stable than the standard design.


The action as it is can be made very well playeable, I have a young customer that make all his professional study on it (and he likes it better than the Steinway B of the school)

the condition make for a price about 3 or 4 times less than the one asked. in fact it is a highly degraded instrument, should not buy at more than 4-5000 Euros.

I would not buy a piano just to have it rebuild. I would buy a piano I could test and listen in its final condition.

if that piano was so interesting, a rebuilder would buy it, make the job and sell it for the adequate value.

sorry if my opinion sound negative. do not buy beaten pianos (plus Ibach, despite their tone quality, where constantly cutting corners since the 60's)

I would buy one in good condition, eventually.


Edited by Olek (09/05/13 05:52 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2144496 - 09/05/13 08:36 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 596
Loc: shirley, MA
31K for an instrument that needs a complete rebuild is crazy. This sounds like a core, not a saleable piano. This puts you in the drivers seat, as the dealer doesn't have a prayer of selling the thing. If you really love it, I'd give him 4K and tell him you are doing him a favor.

On the other hand, if you do decide to pay him 31K, please talk to me first, because I have 50 acres of prime Okefenokee swampland you might be interested in.

Jim Ialeggio
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#2144507 - 09/05/13 09:05 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1918
Loc: Suffolk, England
No longer relevant.


Edited by Withindale (09/05/13 10:29 AM)

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#2144527 - 09/05/13 09:49 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Ask a rebuilder what they would pay for an Ibach that needed rebuilding.
It would likely be around 10% of the price you are willing to pay.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#2144537 - 09/05/13 10:13 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
Rebuild ers have the same problem than you, they cannot pay for the work and the piano. Candidates for rebuilding have some value, but it have nothing to do with the amounts the public think of.

In the end the piano may have a similar resale value, there is a little added value due to a lot of work and parts. The base material must be affordable.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2144599 - 09/05/13 12:13 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21271
Loc: Oakland
I think that the price estimate for that amount of work is at least twice what it should be.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2144622 - 09/05/13 01:21 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: BDB]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: BDB
I think that the price estimate for that amount of work is at least twice what it should be.


Hello no, considering the action that have to use new parts (a full new stack should be comprised in fact it is not interesting to keep the original) the cost is coherent, for me, for a real complete rebuild action included.

But as I said the Fleming could be kept (if only the piano did not play to death)

A new Renner action would be my choice.

The bridges are not very nice on those pianos, cheap multiply. The pin block too, must be Petros. On verticals all panels are MDF, and despite those they have kept a very appealing tone.

Do not agree with your affirmation.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2144729 - 09/05/13 05:18 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: Olek]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 596
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: Olek
The bridges are not very nice on those pianos, cheap multiply.


Of the various plywood type bridges I run into on any grands or uprights, mostly are installed on cheaper instruments. However, despite the bridge material being labeled as "cheap"...I've been noticing that these instruments stand out from many more expensive grands in their lack of false beats, and tuning stability. I wouldn't knock the ply bridge caps as cheap...and am considering switching to them in my own rebuilds.

Jim Ialeggio
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#2144731 - 09/05/13 05:20 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Thank you all for the comments- that was VERY helpful. Good to know- the price is way too much for what the piano is worth- so I've just emailed the dealer to see if they will reduce, based on the tech's report. Likely not, in which case I will just have to move on, but we'll see.

thank you again!

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#2144732 - 09/05/13 05:21 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: jim ialeggio]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio

On the other hand, if you do decide to pay him 31K, please talk to me first, because I have 50 acres of prime Okefenokee swampland you might be interested in.


Sounds great! is it ocean front???
haha

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#2144733 - 09/05/13 05:26 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: phrygian]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 596
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: phrygian
Sounds great! is it ocean front???
haha


waterfront...of course...well actually waterfront, side, back, top and bottom. Some scoffers might refer to it as submerged, but...ha...the world is full of cynics.

I accept cash or credit, wampum, or beads as payment smile
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
#2144773 - 09/05/13 06:39 PM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: jim ialeggio]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Originally Posted By: Olek
The bridges are not very nice on those pianos, cheap multiply.


Of the various plywood type bridges I run into on any grands or uprights, mostly are installed on cheaper instruments. However, despite the bridge material being labeled as "cheap"...I've been noticing that these instruments stand out from many more expensive grands in their lack of false beats, and tuning stability. I wouldn't knock the ply bridge caps as cheap...and am considering switching to them in my own rebuilds.

Jim Ialeggio


They may tend to lengthen the tone or reinforce it as they are very massive. While h make for non singing treble, more on the force side.

The cuts for the strings are not terrific, however, as the wood does not seem to be the same everywhere. May be the glue impregnate so much the wood that it compensate, but see there are yet cracks on that one, 30 years later.


Edited by Olek (09/05/13 06:40 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2144991 - 09/06/13 12:34 AM Re: Question about replacing parts (& cost) on 1982 Ibach 7ft [Re: jim ialeggio]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Originally Posted By: phrygian
Sounds great! is it ocean front???
haha


waterfront...of course...well actually waterfront, side, back, top and bottom. Some scoffers might refer to it as submerged, but...ha...the world is full of cynics.

I accept cash or credit, wampum, or beads as payment smile


haha, awesome!!

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