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I'm learning the 2nd etude from S. 141 (as you can see below :D), and was just curious what the "focus" of the study is. I know it's nicknamed the octave etude, but I find it curious as the octave section is barely 1/3 of the piece! As for the others, do they work on anything special, or did Liszt just want cool sounding piano transcriptions of the caprices? In addition, how do they compare in difficulty to each other, assuming the 2nd is fairly "easy" (requires a lot of slow practice, but not more than 2 weeks to a month's worth) for me?
Of the group, I've only ever played La Campanella. To me, it seems there are several clear objectives written into each piece, but no "one" specific technical element throughout. So, when you break the piece down by section (in the case of La Campanella), there is often a slightly different "version" of the challenge presenting a different technical element (and sometimes a "compounded/complex" element) in each repetition.
Octaves certainly do seem to be a strong feature in the 2nd etude, whether as true one-handed octaves, or split between two hands, or even alternating hands. I would say they're certainly prevalent through most of the piece.
But take the "name" of the etude with a grain of salt. There are no bell parts written for La Campanella, for example.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
But take the "name" of the etude with a grain of salt. There are no bell parts written for La Campanella, for example.
I think a case could be made for bells in La Campanella.
As for the others, the first one is a study of tremolos as the nickname implies. The fourth one, arpeggios. I'm not sure about the fifth one. It's nickname is "the hunt" I suppose from the harmonic structure resembling the sounding of horns in a hunting party. The sixth one is all over the place with each variation tackling a different mechanic. I've played the first one and the sixth one but can't imagine playing the second or third. Above my pay grade.
I've played the first one and the sixth one but can't imagine playing the second or third. Above my pay grade.
Unless my English really did get bad over the summer, you think the 2nd is harder than the 6th?? Also- even though La Campanella is the most played, is it the hardest?
But take the "name" of the etude with a grain of salt. There are no bell parts written for La Campanella, for example.
I think a case could be made for bells in La Campanella.
As for the others, the first one is a study of tremolos as the nickname implies. The fourth one, arpeggios. I'm not sure about the fifth one. It's nickname is "the hunt" I suppose from the harmonic structure resembling the sounding of horns in a hunting party. The sixth one is all over the place with each variation tackling a different mechanic. I've played the first one and the sixth one but can't imagine playing the second or third. Above my pay grade.
Perhaps if it had been composed for (or performed on) a carillon?
I listened to Kissin play the 2nd when I first read this thread. I admit, it sounds daunting at the speed he plays it. The alternating chromatics.. wow. Octaves, though, not so bad.
Sixth is the theme-and-variation, right? You should give La Campanella a shot.. similar vein.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
[quote=Damon][quote=Derulux] I listened to Kissin play the 2nd when I first read this thread. I admit, it sounds daunting at the speed he plays it. The alternating chromatics.. wow. Octaves, though, not so bad.
Sixth is the theme-and-variation, right? You should give La Campanella a shot.. similar vein.
Yes, the 6th is the famous variations based on the 24th caprice (which I think is agreed to be the hardest... (any violinists??) As for the 2nd, I think it's a LOT easier than it sounds. Especially the interchanging octaves- just takes a little slow practice. And good eyesight! As for the descending scales, yes, he plays them fast (and perfectly), but they're also made to sound harder with little taps of pedal here and there (at least in my mind). I like the piece a little lighter than Kissin's, as I think it imitates the violin more accurately; but, Kissin is always just amazing, so I can't complain ^^ La Campanella is the same vein as no. 2, or no. 6? I would love to learn all of them for a recital and/or competition next year.
I meant to imply the "theme and variation" similarity in La Campanella. Not a true "variation", but in a similar vein, since Liszt changes the technical difficulty in each repetition of the theme(s).
The LH octaves at the end of La Campanella are among the hardest technical difficulty of anything I've ever played.. and octaves are probably my single best technical ability.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
octaves are probably my single best technical ability.
Lucky >_< I can barely reach octaves comfortably enough to play them well. Especially with 3rd finger for legato! The actual octave section in the 2nd reminds me of Op. 25 no. 10. Yikes!
octaves are probably my single best technical ability.
Lucky >_< I can barely reach octaves comfortably enough to play them well. Especially with 3rd finger for legato! The actual octave section in the 2nd reminds me of Op. 25 no. 10. Yikes!
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I use 13 or even 14 for octaves. I almost always use 15. So, don't worry if you can't reach 13. You really never need it.
Assuming by 25-10, you mean Chopin? I've never played any of the Chopin etudes, but for fun I did read through this etude a couple times. It's not that bad, as long as you stay loose. Tension is death, though, because fatigue will set in quickly.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
I've played the first one and the sixth one but can't imagine playing the second or third. Above my pay grade.
Unless my English really did get bad over the summer, you think the 2nd is harder than the 6th?? Also- even though La Campanella is the most played, is it the hardest?
In my opinion, from hardest to easiest:
1. La Campanella (3) 2. Octave (2) 3. Theme and Variations (6) 4. Arpeggio (4) 5. Tremolo (1) 6. The hunt (5)
Hey, I think the 6th is comparatively easy. I've taught it a bunch and performed it a few times as well. I also think it' the most interesting musically of the the set.
Hey, I think the 6th is comparatively easy. I've taught it a bunch and performed it a few times as well. I also think it' the most interesting musically of the the set.
Agreed. I played it when I was 14, before I knew how to play the piano. Of course, I didn't play it very well.
I'm learning the 2nd etude from S. 141 (as you can see below :D), and was just curious what the "focus" of the study is. I know it's nicknamed the octave etude, but I find it curious as the octave section is barely 1/3 of the piece! As for the others, do they work on anything special, or did Liszt just want cool sounding piano transcriptions of the caprices? In addition, how do they compare in difficulty to each other, assuming the 2nd is fairly "easy" (requires a lot of slow practice, but not more than 2 weeks to a month's worth) for me?
Even though at times these pieces seem to focus on some technical issue, I put them in a category with the etudes of Chopin. That is, they are are not really meant to be teaching pieces, but rather are designed to showcase the pianists existing skills. They are concert pieces. This is not to imply that we don't learn and hopefully improve with each piece we study.
But take the "name" of the etude with a grain of salt. There are no bell parts written for La Campanella, for example.
There is a bell part in rondo of the concerto that is the source of the tune, and that's the reason for the nickname.
I understand.. was offering a quasi-facetious reply to highly the difficulty with "literally" interpreting the nickname of the piece. Thanks for the recording, though. Haven't listened to the original Paganini in years.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Even though at times these pieces seem to focus on some technical issue, I put them in a category with the etudes of Chopin. That is, they are are not really meant to be teaching pieces, but rather are designed to showcase the pianists existing skills. They are concert pieces. This is not to imply that we don't learn and hopefully improve with each piece we study.
I think that the main objective is overlooked here: Liszt was, like Chopin and Schumann and a lot more collegues, overwhelmed by the sheer virtuosity of Nicolai Paganini, and it was just a pianistic challenge for him to transcribe some of the violinistic fireworks for the piano in such a way that the violinistics would make place for pianistics, as a result we have those wonderful Paganini-etudes by Liszt, oh lest we forget: op.3 and op.10 by Schumann and a little contribution by no less a person than Brahms.
If you want a real challenge, play the original set, S140.
For what purpose? The 1851 revision of the 1838 original is superior in literally EVERY measure, why on earth would anyone play the original today? Certainly -I would think- there would be a better use of one's time?
Leslie Howard must have wondered if it was worth his time, which clearly it wasn't, but he did agree to record everything for Hyperion. But for most of us, just looking at the score of the 1838 version tells us enough.
