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I thought they were 'based on' the sounds from the previous generation?

James
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Owl Stretching Time?

Sorry, couldn't resist another Monty Python reference.

Athan, may I ask you to clarify the keyboard action used in the CP4, and differences with that used by the CLP-470/CLP-480, please?

According to the CP4 specifications:



However according to the CLP-470 specifications:



So is NW-GH the same as NW?

The name suggests that it's actually the existing GH action (i.e. 2-sensor) but with wooden sides?

Thank you in advance.

Cheers,
James
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Kawai James... If you look well in Features you will find:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/stagepianos/cpstage/cp4_stage/

- The perfect piano touch and response

Wooden keys
The CP4 STAGE features wooden keys with synthetic ivory keytops and a Graded Hammer action similar to that of a grand piano (the keys in the lower register are heavier and the keys in the upper register are lighter).

Yamaha's innovative GH3 keyboard has three sensors: in addition to two sensors to detect keystroke strength, it includes Yamaha’s original Damper Sensor. This enables you to use advanced techniques such as playing the same note repeatedly with perfect articulation, previously only possible on a grand piano, which blends sounds without the use of the damper pedal. You also enjoy the keyboard touch of a grand piano, including keys with weight gradations – heavy in the lower end and lighter in the higher end. The NW (Natural Wood) keyboard, with the same structure as the GH3 keyboard, and synthetic ivory keytops also provide the feel of a grand piano, even the fingertip sensations.

Well, despite the technical short comings (stretching and looping) I preordered a CP4 from Sweetwater yesterday. My thing is, after owning both a CP5 and CP50, the CP4 seems to improve on both of those boards deficiencies while still being lighter with more giggable dimensions. Plus it's actually a couple of hundred bucks cheaper, I think Yamaha has a winner here. I will be sure to put in a review when I receive mine next month.

Too bad PWF doesn't have a thumbs up.

Why do you say that ? I think most people here really like the fact that there is (finally) a new stage piano , that is lightweight (!) , allround, professional and has a bunch of good sounds. The issues about looping and stretching are nitpicking and hardly important at all for gigging, which is what this board is made for.

The critical notes are actually more a general remark about the fact that anno 2013 almost all hardware brands still use looped and sometimes stretched sounds. And with each new board people hope that they finally catch up with their software counterparts. Which again and again they don't ; hardware development is still on the recycling path. And that is a bit disappointing to some of us who would like to see the best piano sound in a hardware box - equal in quality to software piano's. In 2013 that is still a dream, or only approached in the most expensive boards like V-Grand, Physispiano, Kronos (but that still has many sampling artifacts)...

So the CP4 is very welcome and a nice board. But since where a forum , we discuss all details including the once we'd like to see improved or included. Perhaps when manufacturers pay attention, the next board.....;-)

From Pedro's quote it seems to be a three sensor NW that is now graded. Perhaps the grading is what we normally encounter on DPs, so slight a differential between top and bottom you almost don't notice it (i.e. mostly a marketing "check the box" feature). But still, I wonder why they are messing with what many believe was a success here? (FWIW, I personally see NO grading as an improvement DPs are able to bring to the table.)

The prosecution would like to enter exhibit A from a CP1 into the record:



It takes a certain amount of chutzpah to call glued on popsicle sticks "wooden keys" particularly when the black keys are likely 100% plastic, but whatever.

Smell the wood!

[EDIT] Sorry everyone, I was wrong, the CP1 white keys seem to be constructed not of wooden side veneer on a plastic key but of a solid piece of wood sandwiched between the plastic key top strip and a plastic mechanism strip on the bottom. Link.

Eager to read your thoughts on the matter after you get it, basically about NW vs graded NW, and any subtle action difference in detail, and the new CFX piano sample. Presently I prefer the brighter CFIII over the S6 in the CP5, so where does CFX fall, etc.


I think he just means the BBS feature where we can +/- or like/dislike or thank posts without actually posting.

Exactly. I would like some posts instead of quoting to say i agree. :P

Based on YAMAHA's track record, I'd assume the keys on the CP4 are no different than those on the CP1, yet they call these keys wooden-something. Keep in mind that they also claim that the coating on the AVANTGRAND keys is IVORITE, yet as many know, it is a lesser quality material; actually closer to their so-called synthetic Ivory (used on Clavinovas).

IMO, wood on the sides is pointless. If there was wood where key strikes keybed, then maybe it would be helpful.

Voxpops...just wondered what your thoughts were on the CP4 given you seem quite happy with the Roland FP-50?

I was thinking of upgrading from an FP4-F for the slightly better action of the FP-50 but am now tempted by the CP4.

However the lack of speakers is a factor...I do have a pair of home stereo speakers that I use as monitors but it's nice to mix those with the onboard setup. Plus there are the quiet gigs where they also suffice quite nicely.

Personally, if I had an FP-4F, I don't think I'd upgrade to the FP-50, with the improvements being so marginal.

My FP-50 is for solo/quiet gigs, and there are relatively few DPs with reasonably powerful built-in speakers that are also lightweight and have a high quality piano emulation.

I have not played the CP4, but if it lives up to expectations it could be a great gigging board. It's possible I might consider replacing my NP88 with it, mainly for the (potentially) better action, and therefore finger/sound connection.

The CP4's EPs are more detailed and more authentic than those in the FP-50, it also has more APs to choose from (not just variations); how those APs will play in comparison to Roland's SN piano remains to be seen. There is more functionality on the CP4's front panel, and the addition of pitch/mod wheels makes it more versatile. But it's not a self-contained solution. If you can get by without the things it lacks, it might be a nice upgrade from your FP-4F.

European price ('special introduction offer') ; € 1999

That is $ 2673 (US) at current exchange value. I don't want to startup the always recurring debate why we always pay premium in Europe (despite the crises), but it stings anyway. $ 2199 would translate into € 1645. Is the $ 2199 US price without any sales tax (if so - how much is that actually in most states) ?

The Kurzweil Artis comes in pretty cheap in comparison: € 1100 and often discounts apply. Of course not the same quality keybed and heavier, but at € 899 price difference it's something to consider for someone just wanting to gig with a versatile board with enough useful sounds and some nice controls.

The Cp4 will definitely sell it this price anyway. The 'old' CP5 is still a few hundred bucks more (for now).

Yes, the $2199 price is without any sales tax. Sales tax in the U.S. varies a lot, not just by state, but sometimes even by municipality within a state. There are a few states with zero sales tax. New York City is almost 9%.

Yes in the UK it's being listed at £1699. That usually means ALL shops will sell it at £1699. Any discounts will not be advertised or will be by providing accessories in a bundle.

Even so, I think that's a keen price, and it will sell. Lots.

Well, that explains something. Over here sales tax (VAT) is 21% ...but as said , even at € 2000 or more, it will sell. There's simply not much competition (yet) offering the same quality at the same weight .

Edit: took out the political part. It's a piano forum

Some interesting quotes from Yamaha's marketing material:

For the CP4 STAGE, we not only worked on sound quality but also paid close attention to the playability of the keyboard. In that regard, we took advantage of the performance qualities of wooden keys, a new feature in the CP series.

I wonder what this means. Are the CP4 keys somehow more "wooden" than those in the CP1/CP5?

We greatly expanded the waveform data used compared to our previous models, and enabled smoother keyboard control over changes in timbre.

Interesting, but still no mention of elimination of the static decay.

Anyhow, looking at the manuals it seems that for the acoustic pianos, they have dumped the lowest level sound shaping parameters like hammer hardness. Instead, there are 15 variations on each of the three piano types, including mono mode. Unfortunately the manuals don't give any details on how those variations were constructed.

I doubt it, however Yamaha certainly seems to be pushing this agenda rather more aggressively.

James
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