Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#2150223 - 09/14/13 07:38 PM Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Hi everybody,

I've been working on this sonata for the past two months, and will be performing it in 3 weeks. I was practising on my digital piano (to not be disruptive), and I sort of decided to push the record button when I was playing through the first movement in the moment. A few notes about this recording though:

- it's being played on a digital
- I recorded it on a digital
- I recorded my digital piano playing back my recording with a different device. (Technology! It's not as simple as just outputting it straight into my computer!)

So long story short, here is my recording (of my recording) of this movement, which is a work in progress still. There's background noise with people walking around the house, but I think it's tolerable since it's not a performance...

If anybody is curious as to why I skipped the repeat, it's because I started recording after I played the exposition the first time through.

Here it is:
https://app.box.com/s/7id0nqde8ydo361otxqm
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2150267 - 09/14/13 09:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
We have *got* to get you into a recording studio someday, with a well tuned acoustic piano and good mics! The way you play is definitely worth it! grin

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
[...]
- I recorded my digital piano playing back my recording with a different device. (Technology! It's not as simple as just outputting it straight into my computer!)
[...]


I think this works to the listener's advantage. There is something about sending the digital piano's sound out over the air that makes it sound, well, less digital! wink

You definitely got it goin', Allan! Very sensitively played, with wonderful musical and emotional intelligence on display. Thank you so much for sharing this! Break a leg!!! laugh

--Andy


Edited by Cinnamonbear (09/14/13 09:50 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2150270 - 09/14/13 10:02 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Thank you for your kind comments Andy! And many apologies for that epic door slam partway through the piece...haha. I really need to find a good way to record things!

So far the 3rd and 4th movements are almost done too, and the 2nd is...hard. I'll record the rest before my actual performance, which I think is good so I'll have an idea of what I sound like, away from the bench. I hope to do a really good job with this piece, because it's very special to me. And I really want make a musical statement with the tempo - a true Allegro Maestoso!
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2150297 - 09/14/13 11:35 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Only able to do a quick 'skim' so far, but it seems quite quite good! thumb

(Maybe even better than that!)

I mean, some of it is just too slowed-down, and I'll be having some other 'suggestions,' but so what.... grin

Top
#2150419 - 09/15/13 07:26 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Pretty good, but needs more gusto, grandiose, and gonzo! grin You sound bored while playing it.

Top
#2150530 - 09/15/13 12:58 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
@Joel - Ahaha, all of that is present in the finale, don't worry laugh

And Mark - if you do have time, I'd love to hear some suggestions! I know that this piece is very special to you and you've studied it for quite some time...so I'm sure you have many interpretative ideas about how it might go.

Thanks for listening!
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2150538 - 09/15/13 01:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Ahaha, all of that is present in the finale, don't worry laugh


Can't wait to hear it!

Top
#2150559 - 09/15/13 02:45 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
So far the 3rd and 4th movements are almost done too, and the 2nd is...hard.

Apparently Mark agrees with you. He thinks it's the hardest movement. (And it is, in a way.) laugh

I'm not going to try to offer suggestions until you've learned the piece, Kuan. I don't really approve of posting mediocre, 3/4 speed performances here, as you might have guessed. grin I'm sure you will play it a lot better, both technically and interpretatively, when you have really mastered the piece. (Or is it really possible to master Opus 58? But that's another question. grin)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150593 - 09/15/13 03:30 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I'm not going to try to offer suggestions until you've learned the piece, Kuan. I don't really approve of posting mediocre, 3/4 speed performances here, as you might have guessed. grin I'm sure you will play it a lot better, both technically and interpretatively, when you have really mastered the piece. (Or is it really possible to master Opus 58? But that's another question. grin)

I agree but wasn't sure I was going to make an issue of it. Let's say I was trying to think of how to do it without seeming like I was giving him a hard time. grin

And in this case it's not even just that it's "3/4 speed"; it's that some parts are learned much less than others, and slow down more.

I'm at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum from Kuan when it comes to displaying my playing. I don't necessarily want to show it yet even when the piece is fully learned from beginning to end, because even then it's not good enough yet. I wouldn't even bring it to a teacher yet, in this stage of learning, much less post it. Of course a problem with my way is that sometimes the piece is never "good enough yet" -- in fact it's almost always not good enough yet. ha

Probably a better answer is somewhere in between. Anyway, on a recording where someone clearly hasn't even finished working out the whole piece, I'm not that moved to start listening or judging or suggesting anything, because I don't know what he himself will still figure out himself. The reason I came on here anyway (and will be saying still more) is because it's Kuan and because of the interchanges that we've had recently about what's hard and what isn't, and because this is a special piece for me. So, even though I totally share Poly's view, I'll be back. smile

Top
#2150595 - 09/15/13 03:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
I'm "the Poly" now? ha
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150598 - 09/15/13 03:38 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I'm "the Poly" now? ha

Fixed.

That was from an error in rephrasing the sentence. smile

Top
#2150607 - 09/15/13 03:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I'm "the Poly" now? ha

Fixed.

That was from an error in rephrasing the sentence. smile

What did it say before? "that idiot?" ha

(just kidding of course. I know no one is enough of an idiot to think I'm one. grin)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150608 - 09/15/13 03:50 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Haha, well it's true that I'm not finished...but one thing that I'm sure of is the tempo. I know that the reason why my recording is long mostly derives from how I handle the B material. I'm not interested in taking it faster though, so this isn't 3/4 speed. This is my preferred tempo. But it's not like I'm alone, both Gilels and Sokolov take it 30 seconds and 1 minute slower respectively.

However, I will post a performance recording in time, so I guess I'll just have to keep practicing for now.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2150610 - 09/15/13 03:54 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
You mean you think everything besides the "B" theme is at the tempo that you think you'll want?



Pssssssst: It isn't. grin
Especially in the latter part of the movement, you slow down in ways that are clearly just from not knowing those parts well.


Edited by Mark_C (09/15/13 03:56 PM)

Top
#2150611 - 09/15/13 03:55 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
You mean you think everything besides the "B" theme is at the tempo that you think you'll want?



Pssssssst: It isn't. grin

If you actually intend to play it that slow, Kuan, I for one will not be coming to your concert. And neither will Mark, it appears. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150612 - 09/15/13 03:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.

Top
#2150652 - 09/15/13 05:13 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't), so trying to push him to go faster isn't going to work. You shouldn't. Maybe with time, it will move more - but it doesn't have to. It needs time to be decided by HIM. And yes, this is allegro maestoso. Perhaps you are all used to hearing it too fast, which most people seem to gravitate toward.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2150684 - 09/15/13 06:12 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Pogo: Did you read the previous posts?

(If you did, you forgot about them.) grin

If it were just a matter of what you're talking about, then sure. But it's not. In fact, what I've been saying about this isn't even mainly about basic tempo. It's about the tempo changes, and inconsistencies, and particularly where he slows down extra and what it shows. Very often it's clearly (very clearly) not a musical choice but a concession to not having learned the part well enough yet.

No problem with what you're saying; in fact I agree with it 100%. It's just that you're not really commenting on what you thought you were.

Top
#2150687 - 09/15/13 06:18 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


Huh. This kind of statement makes me sick. sick Sorry, Mark. It just does.

I went back and listened again (again). One thing I've come to appreciate about Allan's playing (as I've been listening to his posted recordings for the last three years or so) is his musical judgement. It seems obvious to me from Allan's comments that he has something special in mind about the shaping and momentum of the entire piece. Yes, this is billed as a practice recording, and obviously the piece is still green, and even if I did not know what kind of pianist Allan is already, there are myriad indications in this clip alone that this piece will polish up nicely. There are long stretches of depth and beauty in it, and the tempo is JUST FINE.

My advice to you, Allan, is to disregard the McDonald's quality control team. Show us what you have in mind.

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2150688 - 09/15/13 06:20 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Wrong, Andy. grin

I think you just maybe need a supply of Pepto Bismol. ha

You're being way too quick to dismiss what has been said. There's more to it than you're appreciating.

It could be OK (if we wanted to be exceedingly liberal about the tempo, which most people wouldn't) if, when Kuan says that the speed is basically what he wants, he isn't including the great inconsistencies and the parts where he slows down so extremely. It looked to me like he meant the whole thing.

Top
#2150693 - 09/15/13 06:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Wrong, Andy. grin


Wait and see, Mark. Wait and see. I believe you are being too quick to judge. wink
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2150711 - 09/15/13 06:54 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Kuan: I better say some more well-deserved stuff on the positive side before we get too much further down this road. Just wanted to say (as I implied up there, but it's probably sort of lost by now) that there's very much you're doing that I think is terrific. More later. smile

Top
#2150714 - 09/15/13 06:58 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Wrong, Andy. grin

I think you just maybe need a supply of Pepto Bismol. ha

You're being way too quick to dismiss what has been said. There's more to it than you're appreciating.

It could be OK (if we wanted to be exceedingly liberal about the tempo, which most people wouldn't) if, when Kuan says that the speed is basically what he wants, he isn't including the great inconsistencies and the parts where he slows down so extremely. It looked to me like he meant the whole thing.


Can you give me an example?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2150715 - 09/15/13 07:00 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Kuan, for what little it's worth, I appreciate the tempo as it is; at its worst this performance strikes me as though part of some black and white romance film, at its best there's something....real in there...really, I really appreciate this. Thank you. I mean, um, I hear enough performances (by "real" pianists, by "virtuosos" and even "super-virtuosos") that just fail to have a point; if you sped up to "full" speed, I don't see how *your* particular interpretation would work. And it does...to me at least laugh Um...I see some others here disagree...I'd beg them to listen again because, really, it may not be a super polished, impressive display, it just *is* and what it *is* is beautiful....it's real. Um....what the heck that really means is anybody's guess smile but I mean it nonetheless. I second Cinnybear; your playing pleads for some decent recording equipment ^_^ I wish you good luck with whatever performance comes in three weeks though, if you play the other movements with as much conviction as this one, you shan't need it.
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2150724 - 09/15/13 07:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Ah thank you Andy, Pogorelich. and FSO for your comments and kind thoughts! There is still a lot of thinking that I need to put into this movement, though the overall concept is starting to come through.

I still like my tempo!

Though moving away from that, any ideas, thoughts, comments, suggestions on other aspects? (such as tone, phrasing, legato, dynamics, treatment of counterpoint, etc?). I think those are much more interesting aspects to this piece, which result in varying tempo choices...


Edited by Kuanpiano (09/15/13 07:20 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2150740 - 09/15/13 07:38 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.

As Mark says, it's about the ridiculous inconsistencies and hesitations as much as about the overall tempo.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150744 - 09/15/13 07:45 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane


That does not refute my point, and we're not discussing Pogorelich here.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2150745 - 09/15/13 07:47 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Also, I'm not "quick" to say that - it took me a few years of studying AND teaching to realize it.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2150746 - 09/15/13 07:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

Top
#2150747 - 09/15/13 07:51 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


Huh. This kind of statement makes me sick. sick Sorry, Mark. It just does.

Agree completely. The statement is very arrogant. If one must say something like this then do it in a PM. If you don't do PM's then don't say it.

Top
#2150757 - 09/15/13 08:06 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Sorry Mark but I agree with the others. You can't tell someone what they like! frown

Top
#2150769 - 09/15/13 08:22 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13789
Loc: Iowa City, IA
He (or she) is an anonymous person on an internet forum who may or may not be able to play the piano well.


Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2150772 - 09/15/13 08:26 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane


That does not refute my point, and we're not discussing Pogorelich here.

You didn't quote my whole post (you left out the important part), and note the "by the way."
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150773 - 09/15/13 08:27 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

This means nothing. Here we go again with that so popular, and so misguided, fallacy.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150774 - 09/15/13 08:29 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
He (or she) is an anonymous person on an internet forum who may or may not be able to play the piano well.


Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

He, for the record. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150777 - 09/15/13 08:34 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

This means nothing. Here we go again with that so popular, and so misguided, fallacy.


That's not what I meant. Who are you to judge him based on his playing? Are you a psychiatrist, or just opinionated? Why would you call him insane for his odd playing? What I'd like to say right now would get me banned.


Edited by JoelW (09/15/13 09:05 PM)
Edit Reason: typos

Top
#2150778 - 09/15/13 08:34 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane


That does not refute my point, and we're not discussing Pogorelich here.

You didn't quote my whole post (you left out the important part), and note the "by the way."


I did not feel the need to address your other point.

You also did not address MY point.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2150799 - 09/15/13 08:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

This means nothing. Here we go again with that so popular, and so misguided, fallacy.


That's not what I meant. Who are you to judge him based on his playing? Are a psychiatrist, just an opinionated? Why would you call him insane for his odd playing? What I'd like to say right now would get me banned.

Joel, you're taking this way too seriously. What I said was a joke. I don't actually think he's insane. I probably should have added a smiley to show what I meant.

Pogorelich and Joel, I didn't know we weren't on the same page there. I sincerely apologize for any offense you may have taken. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150811 - 09/15/13 09:05 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

Top
#2150819 - 09/15/13 09:10 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2150824 - 09/15/13 09:16 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
It's okay, no biggie.

Top
#2150826 - 09/15/13 09:17 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.
Totally missing the point as usual. It's light years beyond inappropriate to call someone insane even supposedly as a joke. This shows an insensitivity(just plain nastiness)that's inexcusable and is typical of many of your posts.

Top
#2150875 - 09/15/13 10:18 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Strange...there was me thinking that "insane" was a fairly common term of endearment. I mean, people have used the terms "crazy" and "nuts" and plenty others like it without invoking this tirade of hostile counter-remand...but "insane" is off limits? Good to know...
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2150882 - 09/15/13 10:25 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
Strange...there was me thinking that "insane" was a fairly common term of endearment. I mean, people have used the terms "crazy" and "nuts" and plenty others like it without invoking this tirade of hostile counter-remand...but "insane" is off limits? Good to know...


Context, FSO. Context. Forever and always.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2150901 - 09/15/13 10:52 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
But..but..."those crazy tempos" etc....and...and the context here was obvious frown I mean, it may not have been gotten...urgh, worse grammar you couldn't hope to find...it may not have been understood, but after being explained Joel accepted that it was a mere miscommunication it....it's like if I...*sigh* people will be different and hold different opinions about what's appropriate, I suppose *harumph* laugh Um...I just wish the benefit of the doubt fairy and benevolence pixie would visit a few more people before they lavish their helpings of prudential indignant wrath upon others...I mean.....he wasn't being mean... frown
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2150903 - 09/15/13 10:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
But..but..."those crazy tempos" etc....and...and the context here was obvious frown I mean, it may not have been gotten...urgh, worse grammar you couldn't hope to find...it may not have been understood, but after being explained Joel accepted that it was a mere miscommunication it....it's like if I...*sigh* people will be different and hold different opinions about what's appropriate, I suppose *harumph* laugh Um...I just wish the benefit of the doubt fairy and benevolence pixie would visit a few more people before they lavish their helpings of prudential indignant wrath upon others...I mean.....he wasn't being mean... frown


LOL! Now *I* am lost, FSO!!! Who, he?
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2150907 - 09/15/13 11:03 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Can you give me an example?

Will do, when I do the 'full' reply to the OP. smile

My 1st reply was a little summary. Everything since then has been a digression on the sub-topic of posting a recording from such a mid-stage of working on a piece.

Originally Posted By: JoelW
Sorry Mark but I agree with the others. You can't tell someone what they like! frown

I agree!

But I'm not "telling"; I'm predicting, and with confidence.
More later.

Top
#2150910 - 09/15/13 11:08 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

LOL! Now *I* am lost, FSO!!! Who, he?

Well, it had to happen some day laugh Um, "he" is Polyphonist, unwitting lightening rod to the static despondence of social reparation...saying that Pogorelich IS insane is clearly neither hyperbole nor exaggeration, it's mere fallacy and not meant to be taken in earnest...I mean, if one here had said "yes, your majesty" would everyone assume they thought their subject of address to be of royal breed? I...well, actually, maybe I shouldn't assume...but I'd hope not. Um...yes...looking at that previous post on its own....it's a bubble of question marks, I'll admit grin Sorry... laugh
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2151134 - 09/16/13 09:04 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.

Back to topic - about tempo being a personal thing. Have you ever forced a student to play at a tempo YOU like just because You've heard it that way for millions of years? Or have you suffered the reverse? You know, there isn't only one Allegro, and there isn't only one Adagio, etc...
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151136 - 09/16/13 09:06 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Can you give me an example?

Will do, when I do the 'full' reply to the OP. smile

My 1st reply was a little summary. Everything since then has been a digression on the sub-topic of posting a recording from such a mid-stage of working on a piece.

Originally Posted By: JoelW
Sorry Mark but I agree with the others. You can't tell someone what they like! frown

I agree!

But I'm not "telling"; I'm predicting, and with confidence.
More later.


Kind of condescending, don't you think? Just because he's young doesn't mean he's stupid.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151138 - 09/16/13 09:09 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.


I thought it could be this but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not that you should. smile

Top
#2151139 - 09/16/13 09:10 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Can you give me an example?

Will do, when I do the 'full' reply to the OP. smile

My 1st reply was a little summary. Everything since then has been a digression on the sub-topic of posting a recording from such a mid-stage of working on a piece.

Originally Posted By: JoelW
Sorry Mark but I agree with the others. You can't tell someone what they like! frown

I agree!

But I'm not "telling"; I'm predicting, and with confidence.
More later.


Kind of condescending, don't you think? Just because he's young doesn't mean he's stupid.


Me or Kuan? I don't know who's young around here... I just assume everyone is over 40.

Top
#2151157 - 09/16/13 09:44 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.


I thought it could be this but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not that you should. smile
I don't think he deserves the slightest benefit of the doubt based on his incredible large number of nasty and arrogant posts in the past. This is not the case of a poster who is usually reasonable, supportive, and nice making a random comment about someone being "insane". Just the fact that he claimed a smiley would have made everything OK shows his true attitude.

I also find his comments to Kuan in this thread quite obnoxious. What kind of person writes something like "I guess I won't be attending your recital then" because the OP didn't agree with his criticism?


Edited by pianoloverus (09/16/13 10:24 AM)

Top
#2151162 - 09/16/13 09:47 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.


I thought it could be this but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not that you should. smile


Please, Joel. Was there any doubt??? Poly was obviously jerking Pogo's chain. Loud and hard. He seems to be able to dish, but not take. And Kuanpiano's thread is mucked. *sigh*
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2151167 - 09/16/13 09:53 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.


I thought it could be this but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not that you should. smile
I don't think he deserves the slightest benefit of the doubt based on his incredible large number of previous number of nasty and arrogant posts. This is not the case of a poster who is usually reasonable, supportive, and nice making a random comment about someone being "insane". Just the fact that he claimed a smiley would have made everything OK shows his true attitude. I also find his comments to Kuan in this thread quite obnoxious.

What kind of person writes something like "I guess I won't be attending your recital then" because the OP didn't agree with his criticism?


I agree about the negative comments. Poly, you gotta work on that, man. You can be pretty mean sometimes.

The reason why I gave him the benefit of the doubt is because it's a forum and I have no real way of knowing his intent behind those typed words. There's no tone of voice, no body language, etc. to make a real assessment of intent.

Doesn't mean you guys should give him the BOTD though. wink

Top
#2151168 - 09/16/13 09:54 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.

I too indeed find it ridiculous to label someone insane because of unorthodox interpretations. "Odd" or "quirky" is about as far as one can go based on that alone. Again, sorry for any confusion.


Nice backtracking.


I thought it could be this but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not that you should. smile
I don't think he deserves the slightest benefit of the doubt based on his incredible large number of previous number of nasty and arrogant posts. This is not the case of a poster who is usually reasonable, supportive, and nice making a random comment about someone being "insane". Just the fact that he claimed a smiley would have made everything OK shows his true attitude. I also find his comments to Kuan in this thread quite obnoxious.

What kind of person writes something like "I guess I won't be attending your recital then" because the OP didn't agree with his criticism?


I agree about the negative comments. Poly, you gotta work on that, man. You can be pretty mean sometimes.

The reason why I gave him the benefit of the doubt is because it's a forum and I have no real way of knowing his real intent behind his typed words. There's no tone of voice, no body language, etc to make a real assessment of intent.


Use the force, Luke. Watch the patterns. It all becomes clear.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2151169 - 09/16/13 09:55 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Use the force, Luke. Watch the patterns. It all becomes clear.


I guess I will pay closer attention from now on.

Top
#2151173 - 09/16/13 10:06 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1058
Hi kuanpiano! A few random comments, after two listenings to your presentation:

1 Digital pianos are really getting better and better. Now even works as complex and subtle as late Chopin are beginning to sound reasonably "authentic".

2 Overall, I like what I regarded as an analytic, "objective" approach to this movement, and particularly so in the really quite complicated development section. I could follow the progression of thought, and was struck by the continuing tension between the fiery maestoso declamation and the lyrical contrasting material.

3 For what it's worth (not very much, in this man's league!), I wasn't bothered by the speeds and pacing of the various sections. I would say what was most bothersome at this stage was for me a quite unconvincing conclusion -- it almost came off for me that you were surprised it was so close to the end, and in that vein I was really not surprised that you fluffed a few notes in that section. To a lesser extent, I would say that other transitions within the movement were not satisfying, either. My only other general comment is that the extended lyrical material doesn't "sing" enough for my taste, although I did find that to be in keeping with your overall attitude towards this movement.

4 In short, I do not disagree with you that this IS a work-in-progress -- but, unlike a couple of others, I don't consider your fundamental approach to be misconceived.

Thanks for sharing this, and good luck on the performance!

Top
#2151177 - 09/16/13 10:17 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Can you give me an example?

Will do, when I do the 'full' reply to the OP. smile

My 1st reply was a little summary. Everything since then has been a digression on the sub-topic of posting a recording from such a mid-stage of working on a piece.

Originally Posted By: JoelW
Sorry Mark but I agree with the others. You can't tell someone what they like! frown

I agree!

But I'm not "telling"; I'm predicting, and with confidence.
More later.


Kind of condescending, don't you think? Just because he's young doesn't mean he's stupid.


Me or Kuan? I don't know who's young around here... I just assume everyone is over 40.


What?! Do I look over 40 to you??? Hahaha! I'm in my early 20s!

Anyway I meant Kuan.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151191 - 09/16/13 10:30 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
What?! Do I look over 40 to you??? Hahaha! I'm in my early 20s!


I know you are. I meant everybody else. laugh The only youngins around here that I know are you, me, Debrucey (where'd he go?), and OSK.

Top
#2151220 - 09/16/13 11:08 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8888
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
What?! Do I look over 40 to you??? Hahaha! I'm in my early 20s!


I know you are. I meant everybody else. laugh The only youngins around here that I know are you, me, Debrucey (where'd he go?), and OSK.


Hey watch it, Joel. I'm quite a few years this side of 40! grin
_________________________
Jason

Top
#2151241 - 09/16/13 11:37 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151248 - 09/16/13 11:52 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Joel; if I strike you as imbued with the antiquated spirit of an old curmudgeon....who's old, then I suppose I've clearly been neglecting my smilies smile Smileys? Hmm...neither seems right frown laugh Um, Polyphonist, you nasty, irredeemable piece of work, bane of society and scourge of civility, I'm on your side. Thought I'd make it clear. Kuan; sorry your performance has taken a side seat. Having listened again..well, again again, um, I recognise now that the majority of my intense appreciation of your interpretation comes from the eventism; the rubato and, probably, the very parts that some others consider unpolished, the inconsistencies, the hesitations like a sputtering candle, that flick back to life with a strongly pronounced sonority, much like the waking moon or a fine utterance of Christopher Walken... laugh Um...it's passion, it's a gentle, unsure, cautious passion that begs to be unbridled but reigns itself in....again, I really like it ^_^
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2151267 - 09/16/13 12:12 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.
Interesting how you can respond to posts you don't read.

I think your attitude must negatively affect your piano playing and it certainly negatively affects your teaching if you do any(that's already been demonstrated in your online "teaching" at PW).

Top
#2151274 - 09/16/13 12:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.
Interesting how you can respond to posts you don't read.

I think your attitude must negatively affect your piano playing and it certainly negatively affects your teaching if you do any(that's already been demonstrated in your online "teaching" at PW).

From now on I will not be reading these posts, and certainly not replying to them.

As for the rest, I really have no concern about whether a random guy on the Internet thinks I teach/play well or not. You've never seen me do either, just for starters. As for teaching at PW, I don't know what you're talking about.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151281 - 09/16/13 12:27 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: FSO]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FSO
Joel; if I strike you as imbued with the antiquated spirit of an old curmudgeon....who's old, then I suppose I've clearly been neglecting my smilies


Oops. I forgot about you! I knew you were young. Early twenties?

Top
#2151285 - 09/16/13 12:35 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: argerichfan]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
What?! Do I look over 40 to you??? Hahaha! I'm in my early 20s!


I know you are. I meant everybody else. laugh The only youngins around here that I know are you, me, Debrucey (where'd he go?), and OSK.


Hey watch it, Joel. I'm quite a few years this side of 40! grin


frown laugh

Top
#2151289 - 09/16/13 12:42 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: JoelW

Oops. I forgot about you! I knew you were young. Early twenties?

Ha! Forgot about me...I don't believe it for a second wink Ja ja, two and score years...you're less the former?
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2151299 - 09/16/13 01:09 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: FSO]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FSO
Originally Posted By: JoelW

Oops. I forgot about you! I knew you were young. Early twenties?

Ha! Forgot about me...I don't believe it for a second wink Ja ja, two and score years...you're less the former?


I'm half a score plus a quarter score plus the sum of a score divided by four minus two. laugh

Top
#2151308 - 09/16/13 01:24 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Oh wow...sorry, even...even younger than I thought....now I can't *possibly* take you seriously laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2151313 - 09/16/13 01:32 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Exactly.

Top
#2151381 - 09/16/13 03:36 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151385 - 09/16/13 03:41 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..

I don't need credibility. Read my posts, or don't, Pogorelich.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151392 - 09/16/13 03:51 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..

I don't need credibility. Read my posts, or don't, Pogorelich.


Why are you making it an issue of whether or not I read your posts? It's not about that.. It's purely about satisfying my idle curiosity of how you play! smile

Why so secretive? Maybe you're some awesome pianist, and we'll all benefit from hearing you play.


Edited by Pogorelich. (09/16/13 03:52 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151398 - 09/16/13 03:56 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..

I don't need credibility. Read my posts, or don't, Pogorelich.


Why are you making it an issue of whether or not I read your posts? It's not about that.. It's purely about satisfying my idle curiosity of how you play! smile

Why so secretive? Maybe you're some awesome pianist, and we'll all benefit from hearing you play.

I don't know whether I'd call myself an awesome pianist. By the way, I can't post a recording yet because I haven't figured out how to do it. ha Maybe someday the day will come.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151401 - 09/16/13 03:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..

I don't need credibility. Read my posts, or don't, Pogorelich.


Why are you making it an issue of whether or not I read your posts? It's not about that.. It's purely about satisfying my idle curiosity of how you play! smile

Why so secretive? Maybe you're some awesome pianist, and we'll all benefit from hearing you play.

I don't know whether I'd call myself an awesome pianist. By the way, I can't post a recording yet because I haven't figured out how to do it. ha Maybe someday the day will come.


I can teach you!
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151404 - 09/16/13 03:58 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..

I don't need credibility. Read my posts, or don't, Pogorelich.


Why are you making it an issue of whether or not I read your posts? It's not about that.. It's purely about satisfying my idle curiosity of how you play! smile

Why so secretive? Maybe you're some awesome pianist, and we'll all benefit from hearing you play.

I don't know whether I'd call myself an awesome pianist. By the way, I can't post a recording yet because I haven't figured out how to do it. ha Maybe someday the day will come.


I can teach you!

What if I don't want to? grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151409 - 09/16/13 04:05 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
I keep confusing our posts because our names look so similar. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151411 - 09/16/13 04:07 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Poly, you should record my Gmaj prelude and post it. grin

Top
#2151412 - 09/16/13 04:09 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Based on the comments in this thread, quite a few people think I'm a jerk. That's fine, I really couldn't care less. To Plover and Co: isn't it a waste of energy to continue posting these things about how I'm so incredibly nasty that you know I don't read and don't care about?

Block me if you want. Go for it. Or don't, and keep wasting your time writing things about how much you hate me. I will continue to post either way.


You'd have a bit more credibility if you posted some of your playing wink Maybe people won't attack you so much then..
I don't think posting a recording, even if it proved he was world's greatest pianist, would justify many of his posts. It's the tone of his posts, the arrogance and nastiness, that people object to ...not the contents.

Top
#2151415 - 09/16/13 04:10 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Poly, you should record my Gmaj prelude and post it. grin

See my PM.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151441 - 09/16/13 04:50 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Poly: why wouldn't you want to?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2151480 - 09/16/13 05:46 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
I agree with Plover that the way Poly plays would be pretty irrelevant to the concerns that have been voiced, at least to most people. On some kinds of stuff, sure, but not much when it comes to style and tone.

Top
#2151493 - 09/16/13 05:59 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Poly: why wouldn't you want to?

Let me test the waters first by sending a recording to Joel of his piece. Then I may go public.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151499 - 09/16/13 06:04 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I agree with Plover that the way Poly plays would be pretty irrelevant to the concerns that have been voiced, at least to most people. On some kinds of stuff, sure, but not much when it comes to style and tone.


+1: me too. I can't wait for my next lesson when my teacher makes a criticism and I say: "Oh yeah? Let's see you play it better." smile

Being able to play well is a "nice-to-have" here.

Having good musical sense, taste, knowledge, and communication skills is the "must-have".

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

Top
#2151501 - 09/16/13 06:05 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151519 - 09/16/13 06:22 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think is that any potentially positive parts of your posts are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.


Edited by pianoloverus (09/16/13 07:52 PM)

Top
#2151523 - 09/16/13 06:23 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151533 - 09/16/13 06:44 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.


We all mess up!

Top
#2151538 - 09/16/13 06:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.


We all mess up!

But we can all take a few seconds to proofread something before posting it.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151565 - 09/16/13 07:51 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.
I'd rather make 10 errors per post than be guilty of the type of posts you regularly make.

Your comment on my post is just another example of your mean spirited, nasty arrogance.

I hope you're still reading these posts despite your earlier post that you wouldn't.

Top
#2151575 - 09/16/13 08:00 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
[Edited]

Top
#2151584 - 09/16/13 08:06 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6148
Loc: St. Louis area
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

Top
#2151585 - 09/16/13 08:07 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Damon]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Damon


smirk

Top
#2151601 - 09/16/13 08:36 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano


Wanted to steer the thread back to the original recording as I happen to like the performance by Kuanpiano. Aside from the quality of the recording itself (which is understandable) the playing is solid and is paced nicely as I have heard far too many recordings which are just too fast, in tempo.

@Kuanpiano,

Nice job, as I know you will continue to work on it!


Top
#2151613 - 09/16/13 08:55 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Damon]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Damon


+1!! And I almost ignored this thread! On the plus side I'm going to listen to the recording now...
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

Top
#2151618 - 09/16/13 09:02 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Damon]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Damon


This emoticon is the visual equivalent of "What an awesome thread!". thumb
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2151620 - 09/16/13 09:06 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: argerichfan]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
What?! Do I look over 40 to you??? Hahaha! I'm in my early 20s!


I know you are. I meant everybody else. laugh The only youngins around here that I know are you, me, Debrucey (where'd he go?), and OSK.


Hey watch it, Joel. I'm quite a few years this side of 40! grin


Me too, but I think he meant people in this thread (at the time of his posting)? Because otherwise there are quite a few, particularly in the Members Recording section (some <18).
By the way, Joel, in spite his profound wisdom Kreisler (who posted in this thread) is <40 too (I think).
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2151627 - 09/16/13 09:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Sorry. frown grin

Top
#2151634 - 09/16/13 09:29 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
What about me? What makes you think I'm over 40? grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151635 - 09/16/13 09:30 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13789
Loc: Iowa City, IA
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2151638 - 09/16/13 09:32 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

Explain? crazy
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2151641 - 09/16/13 09:47 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.


I hold that belief and it is absolutely NOT ridiculous. The man lost it completely for quite some time and hasn't ever fully recovered. Knowing the trauma he went through with the death of his wife it is, however, understandable.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2151647 - 09/16/13 09:53 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

Explain? crazy


You really don't get it?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2151655 - 09/16/13 10:04 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: stores]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.


I hold that belief and it is absolutely NOT ridiculous. The man lost it completely for quite some time and hasn't ever fully recovered. Knowing the trauma he went through with the death of his wife it is, however, understandable.


Depression is not insanity. Have you even heard the man speak recently? Go listen to some recent interviews. Nothing close to insane.

Top
#2151660 - 09/16/13 10:10 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kreisler]
jmcintyre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 228
Loc: Wash. DC area
Originally Posted By: Kreisler


À propos, but IMO it lacks the panache of Damon's GIF.

Best. Emoticon. Ever.
_________________________
I'd rather be practicing wink
Kawai K-3, Roland FP-7F
Now: Brahms Op. 118, Bach French Suite #5

Top
#2151663 - 09/16/13 10:14 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Okay. It's just that a lot of people hold that belief in seriousness and it's ridiculous.


I hold that belief and it is absolutely NOT ridiculous. The man lost it completely for quite some time and hasn't ever fully recovered. Knowing the trauma he went through with the death of his wife it is, however, understandable.


Depression is not insanity. Have you even heard the man speak recently? Go listen to some recent interviews. Nothing close to insane.


Yes, he suffered severe depression, but he lost his mind for quite a while, Joel. His playing continues to speak volumes about his recovery and clearly, he is NOT the same musician he once was. I'm not going to argue about it so leave it alone.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2151683 - 09/16/13 10:46 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Well, cause this thread has already deteriorated to this point and I guess my playing is on the same level as Bachmach for some people, I guess I'll just toss this here instead of making a new thread.

Third movement.

For everybody else, thank you for your kind comments, and suggestions as well! I'll continue practicing as usual...
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2151688 - 09/16/13 10:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Very good. But work on them trills. smile

Top
#2151691 - 09/16/13 10:54 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Yeah, a few flubs everywhere else too, but the long lines are hard...and I'm sort of figuring out which trills I want to do 2-3 and 3-5.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2151694 - 09/16/13 11:01 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Can you give me an example?

Sure. smile
(i.e. examples of the tempo stuff)
It'll be part of this larger comment which I had said I'd be doing.

Kuan: As I said in the 1st post and again thereafter, I like a great deal of what you're doing. As per Poly's 1st post I don't really get why you'd want to post a recording at such a stage; you clearly hadn't really finished even what we might call the basic learning of the movement. But there it is, and we can already see that there's a lot of excellent stuff to work with here. But some simply isn't (sorry for the flat-outness; I'm actually putting it that way mainly for the those who got indigestion from what I've said before, maybe to desensitize them about it a little and help them realize that sometimes such flat-out statements are valid) grin ....some simply isn't. It's totally just the tempo stuff, and indeed I'll be very specific.

To put sort of a frame around the tempo stuff, and to make it clear right off the bat (or at least I think it ought to be) that there's some great inconsistency going on, which is a much bigger issue than how slow it might be: Your total timing for the movement is about 10 minutes, which is much longer than most people but forget that -- I'm hardly counting that. You begin the movement at a tempo of just about exactly 104 to the quarter note, which is close to how most people play it -- a little slower but close. If you maintained that tempo through the piece, the total timing would have been about 7:40, not 10 minutes. That's how much you slow down: enough to make it average out to a third longer. I don't mean that there can't be ebbs and flows of tempo, or that the 2nd theme (especially) can't be slower than the opening theme. And there are sonata movements where it's fine to have greatly differing tempos within the movement, and some that just about call for it. But I think we can safely say that this absolutely isn't a movement like that, and that it's not a movement where you can have some parts that are only about half as fast as the main theme. OK -- so much for math. I'll go through the piece, including a lot about good stuff, as well as some 'for the heck of it' stuff. smile

The opening is extremely strong, and with very nice changes of tone and color in the different phrases on the first page. You move toward the surprise B-flat harmony of m. 17 and set it up very beautifully and movingly -- great job! I think it could be even better if you played those converging 16th-note figures of mm. 14-16 quicker and with more space between them, i.e. the notes a bit quicker and the rests a bit longer, and I think this is where you start losing the feel of the tempo a little (it's subtle), but still the overall set-up is great.

Backing up to the opening: Here's something that's not really a criticism, because just about everybody does what you're doing grin .....so 'it's not you, it's me.' It's about those chords in the second half of m. 2 (and again in m. 4 and elsewhere). You play them staccato. So does just about everyone. And many editions show staccato.

I never felt those chords that way, and never played them like that. I interpreted the staccato markings as meaning 'very well articulated,' and that's all. I saw the motif as more of a 'pleading, tugging' thing than a pointedly screaming proclamation.

And guess what: The manuscripts might not have those staccato marks at all. When I recently got the Polish National edition of the sonatas, one of the first things I looked at was this. For what it's worth, what the edition shows on those chords is nothing. No staccatos. (Also no slurs or anything else.) The edition has a separate booklet with discussion of what the various manuscripts show, with emphasis on places where the thing that they decided to put in the edition might differ from what any manuscript shows. And there's no commentary at all on this. I take that to mean that none of the manuscripts have those staccatos which most printed editions have and which most people play, and which never fit with any way that I could bring myself to see the piece.

Probably nobody will ever complain if you keep playing those chords as you do, and maybe they would complain if you change to how I'm saying grin ....but it looks like the way almost everybody has been playing it, at least in recent decades, is based on an editorial decision that was wrongly taken to be an authentic marking. OK, enough of that, back to the regularly scheduled show. ha

The second page is lovely, and interesting. You do the parallel 4ths beautifully, and seemingly with no struggle, which is never to be taken for granted. (Those are hard! -- especially if we're talking about making music with them.) You do the counterpoint in the right hand extremely well, with no 'hiccups' due to the leaps, and the chromatic scales in the left hand are nicely clear, well-shaped, and nicely balanced to the right hand. Really an extraordinary job with this difficult page. You continue likewise in the rest of the material leading up to the 2nd theme, with a lot of 'soul' in these pages that can easily sound like just an exercise or a jumble of notes.

The lovely 2nd theme is absolutely lovely. This is truly excellent Chopin playing, beautiful playing of what some might say is the most beautiful melody ever written. (I do.) smile
However, I think you take the tempo down to where it starts not fitting with the whole piece, and feeling too discontinuous from the opening. It sounds to me as though you've switched to a different piece.

BTW, it's a beautiful little touch, the way you give such life to the little left hand motif at 3:00. Rarely done!!

However, right after that is where I think the tempo stuff moves from "Is that OK? maybe maybe it is...." to "No it's not." It's not just a matter of the pure speed itself but of the nature of the phrase, and with it seeming like the tempo isn't a musical choice but a sacrifice to the difficulty of the passage.

The passage at m. 66 is marked leggiero. We could debate what leggiero means, and we might have all kinds of different ideas about it, but the one thing it certainly doesn't mean is that you start dragging the tempo even more. The problem with it isn't that you're not slavishly following an indication; it's that the way you're playing it, especially with the dragging tempo, negates what the passage is. I'm trying to be careful about this next thing I'm going to say because I can already hear the accusations of arrogance etc. etc., but all I can say is that I can imagine that people who don't know the piece very well might find it fine what you're doing -- and it is beautiful if we just take it on its own terms -- but those who do know it very well might tend to be getting a message that you're just slowing down extra because it's kind of hard, and to become a little skeptical about your main motivations about the tempo in general. (I'll be interested to know whether others who do know the piece well have any similar feeling about this part.)

The beautiful closing part of the exposition, which you indeed play beautifully smile ....well however, it's marked "in tempo" and you're playing it about 25% slower than the opening.

The development section is very good, except.... you do pick up the tempo for it, but it's still considerably slower than the opening (I mean even the first part of the dev. section, before getting to the lyrical stuff). I think you'd have a hard time justifying that.

The passage from mm. 133-137 drags in a way that makes it sound (at least to me, and again I'd guess to most people who know the piece well) ....that makes it sound like you just haven't learned this part or that you just don't have a feel for what's going on there. I don't mean that it has to 'fly,' but it seems clearly to be a passage that calls for some drive and momentum. I wouldn't make such an issue of it, nor of any of the tempo stuff, and really would probably hardly think of it -- I'd write it all off to your just being at a mid-stage with the piece -- except that you make such a point of saying that the tempos reflect what you think you really want to do. I'm betting that to a large extent -- not totally but to a large extent -- they are technical concessions, and that as you get the piece more into you, you won't be wanting to be slowing down so much compared to the opening. (I think you'll probably play the opening a little bit faster too, which is pretty par-for-the-course with stuff like this.)

Then the recap -- again, what's beautiful is very beautiful. I don't want to lose it in the shuffle that you have a very nice feel for Chopin. BTW it sounds like you didn't really learn the last page yet, like you had gone through the rest of the piece and thought you knew the end well enough to give this a run through for the microphone.

I hope some of this may be helpful. Anyway, it's what I think. smile

Top
#2151711 - 09/16/13 11:39 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
[...] I wouldn't make such an issue of it, nor of any of the tempo stuff, and really would probably hardly think of it -- I'd write it all off to your just being at a mid-stage with the piece -- except that you make such a point of saying that the tempos reflect what you think you really want to do. I'm betting that to a large extent -- not totally but to a large extent -- they are technical concessions, and that as you get the piece more into you, you won't be wanting to be slowing down so much compared to the opening. (I think you'll probably play the opening a little bit faster too, which is pretty par-for-the-course with stuff like this.)


And here is, exactly, the issue. You've clarified it very well. That is exactly why I think you are being too quick to bust Kuanpiano's chops about what he means by tempo. I forget who used the phrase in one of the e-citals, but the presentation was not fully worked up, and the performer said, "This is a statement of intentions."

I still feel like you are writing a citation for some kind of Chopin infraction, "impeding traffic," when Allan is still settling into the piece, including what may or may not turn into leggiero, at any speed. Uh, tempo, I mean. Hand me the Tums, please. wink
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2151712 - 09/16/13 11:40 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Hi Mark,

I should be heading off to bed but you wrote such a thoughtful post that I really had to reply to you. But first of all thank you - for listening to my recording, as well as taking the time to provide all of this detailed feedback.

If anybody's wondering why on earth I would post a recording of a work in progress...well it's because there are a lot of things that I can't hear in my playing. I haven't worked with a teacher for the past three years because of school, and as such I don't have a second set of "ears" to pick up on what I'm missing. If anybody's heard any of my other recordings they'll find that pacing, tempo, and hitting correct notes are things I struggle with most.

I'll give a big lump-sum here and say THANK YOU for some of your comments regarding details and phrasing (which is what I work so hard on). There are so many beautiful moments in this movement that I wanted to make present in my interpretation.

As for the eighth-note chords in the opening motif - that is something I'm still thinking about. The issue is that the articulation chosen here should be consistent with the articulation in the development when this material comes back. I'm hoping to do a non-pedalled tenuto, which would work if I was recording in a hall, not at home. This is something I need to work on.

RE the tempo in the second theme. I think that this is where taking the repeat is very helpful. Maintaining a free tempo is something I want to do in order to emphasize the improvisatory, and rhapsodic character of the movement. However, keeping the tempo more straight helps preserve the form better. The "plan" here is really to play the second theme more straight the first time through, then explore the nuances in the micro-phrases the second time around. But why I also slow down a lot is to let the phrases breathe - there are a lot of 2-bar fragments in this section can make it schizophrenic. I sort of tried to homogenize it by taking a relaxed tempo for everything.

The leggiero part I agree with you in some ways...but it is hard to reconcile with the preceding and following bars. The bar just before the leggiero is a breath from the preceding forte statement, so it's not quick. The bar straight after the leggiero I don't feel should be so leggiero, so what's left is that it doesn't make musical sense for me to speed up so much for 2 bars. The second time it comes back does, because then you have the culminating chromatic scales and the rit. segment later.

The closing of the 1st movement, I take a tempo to mean after the swelling to the section with the dominant 7th harmonies - it reverts back to the speed of the second theme. Here I just brought out the left hand more, because that's the rhythm which is developed in the following page. I speed up when the falling motif appears in the development because it doesn't really make sense to go quick before - I'm keeping the tempo of that rhythmic motif constant until the LH passage takes off.

Unfortunately I don't have a score with the bar numbers on hand, but I think I know where you are referring in measures 133-137...the triplet chords that take us back to the recap? Yep, those are too slow. I tried to prolong that stillness when the eighths emerge from the tail end of the development, and I didn't really bring out the character of the passage.

Some of this might not make any sense because I'm falling asleep right now, but again, I really appreciate your comments and all of your time and patience. Certainly there are parts that need to be reworked, but I still stick by the overall "character" which I've established for this movement. Hopefully I'll be able to pull it off.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2151718 - 09/16/13 11:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
....Some of this might not make any sense....

All makes total sense! smile

Quote:
....I still stick by the overall "character" which I've established for this movement....

And that's great. Just watch the tempos. grin

BTW, the "leggiero" part doesn't have to go faster; it just probably can't go slower, and it ought to have a 'whatever-leggiero-means-in-Italian' feel.




"light"

Top
#2151724 - 09/16/13 11:53 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
[...] Just watch the tempos. grin


"Tempi" in Italian. Not to be confused with "Speedi." smirk wink


Edited by Cinnamonbear (09/17/13 12:40 AM)
Edit Reason: added wink to soften tone
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2151857 - 09/17/13 04:32 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano


Since no one has yet commented on the playing of the third movement I would like to say it sounds like it was very well done. The 2nd and final movements are the ones that are really going to take some work!

I also wish you the best in your upcoming performance.

Top
#2152018 - 09/17/13 10:20 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pianoloverus]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I'd rather make 10 errors per post than be guilty of the type of posts you regularly make.

Your comment on my post is just another example of your mean spirited, nasty arrogance.

I hope you're still reading these posts despite your earlier post that you wouldn't.

*Cough* That is all. Kuan; I've not played this sonata so, perhaps, I don't know what I'm talking about. However, in the largo I appreciate the form you're trying to lend it but, um, yes, those trills could be neater...I mean, they don't have to be uniform; you could weight them from one side or the other...this holds true for all your phrasing too; it never gets out of hand....which, to me, says there's just a little more wiggle room to inject expressiveness, to squeeze out a few more danger notes... laugh ...but like I say, I might not know what I'm talking about. Um....either way (or whichever, rather) it's far from bad (not the most adulating reference, I know laugh ), it may even be good shocked But it doesn't ensnare me as your first offering was wont to do.....but that may be more the movement's fault than yours, I couldn't say frown Sorry...
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2152039 - 09/17/13 10:46 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.


We all mess up!

But we can all take a few seconds to proofread something before posting it.


Dude, go out with some friends and loosen up. You'll feel better, I swear.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2152086 - 09/17/13 11:36 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I think plover agrees that I have the sense, taste, and knowledge. What I lack is the communication skills, according to him. grin
What I think that any positive parts of your contribution are overwhelmingly outweighed by the negative aspects.

Here's a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, make sure your sentences make sense before posting them.

I see you went to edit your post and STILL did not correct it.


We all mess up!

But we can all take a few seconds to proofread something before posting it.


Dude, go out with some friends and loosen up. You'll feel better, I swear.

Don't have time to go out with friends.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2152119 - 09/17/13 12:09 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Don't have time to go out with friends.

frown You don't have the time to be happy? But...then what's the point of living? Are your other enterprises of such import to society that you must sacrifice yourself before them? Um... frown If what you say is true as opposed to, say, "can't be arsed to go out with friends" then you need to reconsider your priorities. Even music does not come before love, or friendship, or happiness...I worry sometimes whether everyone here agrees...
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2152236 - 09/17/13 02:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Don't have time to go out with friends.


Pfft. You seem to have plenty of time to hang around here wink
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2152248 - 09/17/13 03:15 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Don't have time to go out with friends.

frown You don't have the time to be happy? But...then what's the point of living? Are your other enterprises of such import to society that you must sacrifice yourself before them? Um... frown If what you say is true as opposed to, say, "can't be arsed to go out with friends" then you need to reconsider your priorities. Even music does not come before love, or friendship, or happiness...I worry sometimes whether everyone here agrees...
Xxx
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Don't have time to go out with friends.


Pfft. You seem to have plenty of time to hang around here wink

Yes, I suppose I mean what FSO said. I can't be arsed. ha

And of course music is more important than love or friendship, and it IS happiness.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2152251 - 09/17/13 03:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false...

Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

Top
#2152252 - 09/17/13 03:22 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Hakki Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2567
Kuan,

At this early stage, this is actually pretty good. Congratulations.

As for the tempo, I too prefer a more lively tempo on places but it is a personal preference.

But, despite my avatar, the real problem for me is the digital piano. I know it from first hand experience with my two recordings on my site recorded on a digital. Believe me digital is a definite no for Chopin.

If possible, please post your next recording on an acoustic.
And also if possible do not study it on a digital.



Edited by Hakki (09/17/13 03:33 PM)
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

Top
#2152257 - 09/17/13 03:26 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false...

Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


-Jason

For me, it's true. For you it may be different.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2152259 - 09/17/13 03:32 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false...

Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


-Jason

For me, it's true. For you it may be different.


I feel bad for you. But usually this state of mind is just temporary.


Edited by Pogorelich. (09/17/13 03:32 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2152264 - 09/17/13 03:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false...

Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


-Jason

For me, it's true. For you it may be different.


I feel bad for you. But usually this state of mind is just temporary.

I've had it since I was 12 years old. Call me insane. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2159168 - 09/28/13 04:08 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: beet31425]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6343
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false... Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


I know !!!! sick

But there's absolutely no reason why you can't have it all...music, love AND friendship. grin


Edited by carey (09/28/13 04:10 PM)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2159179 - 09/28/13 04:27 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: carey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...

My god, so false... Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...


I know !!!! sick

But there's absolutely no reason why you can't have it all...music, love AND friendship. grin

I'm a lover of music. That's music and love. Friendship I'm not so keen on.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2159184 - 09/28/13 04:41 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

I'm a lover of music. That's music and love. Friendship I'm not so keen on.


I feel the same.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159219 - 09/28/13 05:50 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
For me, music is a life-enhancer. If I was the only person left on earth but was a brilliant musician, I would hate life.

Top
#2159221 - 09/28/13 05:53 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
For me, music is a life-enhancer. If I was the only person left on earth but was a brilliant musician, I would hate life.

I would love it. I guess we're just different.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2159237 - 09/28/13 06:07 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1082
Loc: Massachusetts
Thanks for sharing, some really great playing! I almost always prefer a slightly slower tempo with few exceptions so I'm fine with what you're trying to do and the atmosphere you're creating. Fortunately you've got some great feedback on how to smooth it out. Some questions:

- You seem to have changed recording styles for the third movement. Did you just record it live this time? I can hear the keys thumping. I ask because I recently recorded that way and the key thumping can be quite loud on some digitals.

- What kind of digital are you using? (I use Roland RP301)

- Have you considered skipping the repeat in performance? I've heard a few versions that skip it and I think it works. Of course it's really nice to hear it again but I just wanted to state my opinion that the repeat is really not required here. (go easy on me)

Just to comment on the third movement, I thought it could be a bit more lyrical prior to the 1:30 mark. The left hand was sounding a bit percussive and uninspired in that section. But this might just be that thumping bugging me again.

By the way, I like the idea of recording on the digital piano and then playing it back. Never thought of that and it solves the key noise. I've found that sometimes the dynamic range does not come through. Or maybe I'm just not as good as I thought I was.

On another note, I like that you posted this 'practice' version. I noticed on my most recent recording that I make a lot of notes come out that I was unaware of. Or a section that I thought sounded wrong in a professional recording was really just WRONG ON MY END. Good luck in your performance.

Top
#2159247 - 09/28/13 06:16 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
For me, music is a life-enhancer. If I was the only person left on earth but was a brilliant musician, I would hate life.

I would love it. I guess we're just different.


I seriously doubt that. We're social animals. No matter how introverted you are, you still need SOME human contact. It's our nature. If you didn't, you wouldn't be on these forums all the time. wink

Top
#2159252 - 09/28/13 06:25 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

I'm a lover of music. That's music and love. Friendship I'm not so keen on.


I feel the same.


I guess you just haven't met many decent human beings. That's too bad.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2159255 - 09/28/13 06:26 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
For me, music is a life-enhancer. If I was the only person left on earth but was a brilliant musician, I would hate life.

I would love it. I guess we're just different.


I seriously doubt that. We're social animals. No matter how introverted you are, you still need SOME human contact. It's our nature. If you didn't, you wouldn't be on these forums all the time. wink
How do you really know it's our nature? You know(or think you know) it's your nature, but really all you know about the world is what you see from your perspective...

Top
#2159258 - 09/28/13 06:28 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
I want to quote Dostoyevsky in this, he said something like: "I love humanity so much that I hate avery single person. In order to love humanity one must hate every single person, but in order to love every single person, one must hate humanity" Or, he didn't say it, but one of his characters from The Brothers Of Karamazov(a MUST READ) did.


Edited by Franz Beebert (09/28/13 06:28 PM)

Top
#2159266 - 09/28/13 06:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Franz Beebert]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Franz Beebert
How do you really know it's our nature?


For the same reason I know oranges are orange.

Top
#2159278 - 09/28/13 06:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159279 - 09/28/13 06:50 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict


Missing the point!

Top
#2159281 - 09/28/13 06:53 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
I actually don't have the energy right know to argue how you really know that oranges are orange in the same way for me as they are for you... wink

Anyway, how can one not love people, friendships, relations, humanity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvwRXaSbfVY

Remarkable man...

Top
#2159285 - 09/28/13 06:55 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Anyway, I enjoyed this book...
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159286 - 09/28/13 06:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
At any rate, Polyphonist and ChopinAddict are not as anti-social as they thinks they are. If they were they wouldn't be here on the forums.

Top
#2159287 - 09/28/13 06:58 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
How about the outsider? I think that book would suit you ChopinAddict. I see nothing wrong with wanting to be alone. If you do want to be alone, I accept that. But I doubt you dislike humans or humanity... You say you love music, music created by the human spirit. Through music, you communicate with yours and others human spirits.

Top
#2159288 - 09/28/13 07:00 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
Originally Posted By: JoelW
At any rate, Polyphonist is not as anti-social as he thinks he is. If he was he wouldn't be here on the forums.

Now this is just a joke; but haven't you heard of Anti-social personality disorder? wink (Now that's a completely different thing though, I really don't think Polyphonist is a psycopath)


Edited by Franz Beebert (09/28/13 07:00 PM)

Top
#2159294 - 09/28/13 07:02 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
Anyway, the IMPORTANT thing now is for EVERYBODY to listen to Muhammad Ali and to read The Brothers Of Karamazov! wink

Top
#2159295 - 09/28/13 07:03 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Franz Beebert]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, sometimes people want to be alone, but this doesn't mean they dislike humanity. Sometimes they just don't connect.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159299 - 09/28/13 07:05 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4781
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Yes, sometimes people want to be alone, but this doesn't mean they dislike humanity. Sometimes they just don't connect.


You don't have ANY friends? 1, or 2 that you connect with??

Top
#2159300 - 09/28/13 07:06 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6343
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And of course music is more important than love or friendship...
My god, so false... Don't believe it, as tempting as it is! Down that path ultimately lies misery, I think...

I know !!!! sick But there's absolutely no reason why you can't have it all...music, love AND friendship. grin
I'm a lover of music. That's music and love. Friendship I'm not so keen on.


"Loving music" is not the same thing as loving or being friends with another human being. Ideally, we should experience both kinds of love during our lives. (Just my opinion, of course.) smile



Edited by carey (09/28/13 07:06 PM)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2159308 - 09/28/13 07:12 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: JoelW]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I have a couple of Internet friends, but not in "real life".
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159310 - 09/28/13 07:14 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
Have you chosen it by yourself?

Top
#2159313 - 09/28/13 07:20 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6343
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Yes, sometimes people want to be alone, but this doesn't mean they dislike humanity. Sometimes they just don't connect.


It's not just "wanting" to be alone - it's "needing" to be alone at certain times in our lives - and it has nothing to do with liking or not liking humanity. By nature, I'm an introvert but I can also be very social and "out there." Go figure. crazy Real "connections" with other human beings in this world are rare - but they do happen. We simply need to be open to the possibility.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2159317 - 09/28/13 07:25 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: carey]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 357
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Yes, sometimes people want to be alone, but this doesn't mean they dislike humanity. Sometimes they just don't connect.


It's not just "wanting" to be alone - it's "needing" to be alone at certain times in our lives - and it has nothing to do with liking or not liking humanity. By nature, I'm an introvert but I can also be very social and "out there." Go figure. crazy Real "connections" with other human beings in this world are rare - but they do happen. We simply need to be open to the possibility.


+1

Top
#2159318 - 09/28/13 07:25 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6343
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I have a couple of Internet friends, but not in "real life".


Internet friendships are fast becoming "real life." grin
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2159328 - 09/28/13 07:52 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: carey]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
You are right! + 1 smile
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2159336 - 09/28/13 08:08 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: ChopinAddict]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6343
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
You are right! + 1 smile


thumb
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2159378 - 09/28/13 09:42 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pathbreaker]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
I'll bypass the psychiatric stuff -- y'all are doing right fine without me. ha

Originally Posted By: tbuscuit
....I've heard a few versions that skip it [i.e. the repeat] and I think it works....

Yes indeed!
If you listen to even more, you'll find that almost everybody skips it. grin

And with good reason. I love every measure and every note of that exposition -- with a passion smile -- but I think taking the repeat half-ruins the piece. I'm with those who think that despite Chopin's having written separate 1st- and 2nd- endings, it was a formality, and he didn't particularly intend the repeat to be taken.

(Before anybody takes the trouble to do a post stating that this is just speculation..... ha
.....I'll include my sig:)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#2162358 - 10/06/13 12:14 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
I just performed this a few hours ago - a few sloppy moments, so maybe I'll pass on uploading another recording for now...

In the meantime, I'd like to thank everybody who get thoughtful comments to my practice recordings, and I will continue to keep working on this piece. Thanks again!


Edited by Kuanpiano (10/06/13 12:57 AM)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
#2165506 - 10/13/13 02:48 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Deleted


Edited by BB Player (10/13/13 08:35 PM)

Top
#2165722 - 10/13/13 04:40 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: pv88]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
I hope you can edit or delete the above post, hopefully delete. Even when someone messed up, it's not a great idea to say anything like that.

Top
#2165788 - 10/13/13 08:05 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Deleted (by me)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2165815 - 10/13/13 10:09 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19777
Loc: New York
(If you want to be doing better, better you should get rid of that from your post too.)

edit: Good job smile

Top
#2169073 - 10/20/13 07:08 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
PeterJoosten Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/04/13
Posts: 4
You're a fine pianist. The sonatas are (except for no.1 maybe, that might be a little less cumbersome) some of the most challenging pieces Chopin wrote and you did a really good job here.

If this is a practice recording then how do your polished ones sound like? :P

Anyhow, what's up with the other 3 movements? Would enjoy hearing the entire piece from you.
_________________________
Currently working on: Schumann's Carnaval, Beethoven's piano sonata #26 'Das Lebewohl',

Top
#2169137 - 10/20/13 09:16 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2140
Loc: Canada
Thank you very much! I'm currently preparing for a competition in about a month and a half, where I'll be performing the first movement. I made another practice recording yesterday and you can find it here:

https://app.box.com/s/muayac92uc13k14hftmf

Of course this isn't a polished recording at all, and there are a few memory slips here and there. Which is why I'm not making a new thread....yet. :P

Oh and op 81a is a great piece! Really fun to play, but pretty challenging (especially the last movement..and the second movement is quite tricky as well).


Edited by Kuanpiano (10/20/13 09:17 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Moderator:  Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Marche Funbre d'une Marionette
by Minnesota Marty
09/21/14 10:09 AM
Tired and groggy
by PhilipInChina
09/21/14 08:26 AM
Digital piano key noise
by bigsmile
09/21/14 03:15 AM
Hans von Bulow's piano
by phantomFive
09/21/14 01:57 AM
Rubinstein teaching style
by phantomFive
09/21/14 01:52 AM
Who's Online
115 registered (255, 36251, aesop, 34 invisible), 1169 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76260 Members
42 Forums
157664 Topics
2315825 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission