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#2151680 - 09/16/13 10:41 PM Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital!
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Hello, Pianoworlders. smile
We are starting a new themed recital. Some of you may be familiar with the concept from the ABF where it originated. However, now we are opening it up to be site-wide. If you would like to participate, please enter below by telling us which piece you'd like, and we will update this list accordingly. Make sure someone else hasn't already chosen the piece you select. You may select as many as you want, as long as you will be able to complete them all. smile

Without further ado, here is the list of Mazurkas:

Opus 6
No 1 in F# minor
No 2 in C# minor
No 3 in E major
No 4 in Eb minor

Opus 7
No 1 in Bb major - WinsomeAllegretto
No 2 in A minor
No 3 in F minor
No 4 in Ab major
No 5 in C major

Opus 17
No 1 in Bb major
No 2 in E minor
No 3 in Ab major
No 4 in A minor - Michael Sayers

Opus 24
No 1 in G minor - PrestoconFuocco
No 2 in C major
No 3 in Ab major
No 4 in Bb minor - Derulux

Opus 30
No 1 in C minor
No 2 in B minor - TwoSnowflakes
No 3 in Db major
No 4 in C# minor

Opus 33
No 1 in G# minor
No 2 in D major
No 3 in C major - JoelW
No 4 in B minor

Opus 41
No 1 in E minor - Kreisler
No 2 in B major - Polyphonist
No 3 in Ab major
No 4 in C# minor

Opus 50
No 1 in G major
No 2 in Ab major
No 3 in C# minor

Opus 56
No 1 in B major - Morodiene
No 2 in C major
No 3 in C minor - carey

Opus 59
No 1 in A minor
No 2 in F minor - carey
No 3 in F# minor

Opus 63
No 1 in B major
No 2 in Ab major
No 3 in C# minor

Opus 67
No 1 in G major
No 2 in G minor
No 3 in C major
No 4 in A minor - jrcallan

Opus 68
No 1 in C major
No 2 in A minor - BruceD
No 3 in F major
No 4 in F minor

Posthumous
KK IIa No 2 in G major
KK IIa No 3 in Bb major
KK IIb No 4 in A minor
KK IIb No 5 in A minor
KK IVb No 1 in Bb major
KK IVb No 2 in D major
KK IVb No 3 in C major
KK IVb No 4 in Ab major

The deadline for submitting recordings or videos will be one month from the time of this original post - Wednesday, October 16. Please do try to get it in before then. Just send a PM to Derulux AND me containing your performance. The "recital" (recordings being posted by us in a list) will take place a few days later. smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151682 - 09/16/13 10:45 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5379
Loc: Philadelphia
Put me down tentatively for 24-4. I'd like to perform it on a real piano, instead of my sticky-keyed keyboard, but we'll see what happens. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2151690 - 09/16/13 10:54 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: Bay Area, CA
(Correction: op.59/2 is in Ab major, not F minor.)

-J
_________________________
Schubert Immersion: Bb Impromptu; C# minor and Ab Moments Musicaux; accompanying four songs (Suleika II, Rastlose Liebe, Du Liebst Mich Nicht, Im Fruhling); listening intensely to Die Schöne Müllerin and Winterreise

Chopin: first Ballade; Mozart: D minor concerto;

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#2151699 - 09/16/13 11:22 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
(Correction: op.59/2 is in Ab major, not F minor.)

-J

Ah, yes. Thanks for that.

Shall I put you down for any, beet? smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151700 - 09/16/13 11:22 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1285
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Please temporarily put me down for Op. 17 No. 4 - before commitment there needs to be a chance to think about the deadline for providing a recording. I don't see the deadline in the initial post.


M.

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#2151701 - 09/16/13 11:23 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Please temporarily put me down for Op. 17 No. 4 - before commitment there needs to be a chance to think about the deadline for providing a recording. I don't see the deadline in the initial post.


M.

Aha - forgot about the deadline. Please see above.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151702 - 09/16/13 11:24 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
(Correction: op.59/2 is in Ab major, not F minor.)

-J

Ah, yes. Thanks for that.

Shall I put you down for any, beet? smile


sigh... I played all of op.59, and performed them in an informal recital last year... But I'm on a hard-core Beethoven path right now, and can't really be distracted! Bad timing... sorry!

-J
_________________________
Schubert Immersion: Bb Impromptu; C# minor and Ab Moments Musicaux; accompanying four songs (Suleika II, Rastlose Liebe, Du Liebst Mich Nicht, Im Fruhling); listening intensely to Die Schöne Müllerin and Winterreise

Chopin: first Ballade; Mozart: D minor concerto;

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#2151714 - 09/16/13 11:45 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
(Correction: op.59/2 is in Ab major, not F minor.)

-J

Ah, yes. Thanks for that.

Shall I put you down for any, beet? smile


sigh... I played all of op.59, and performed them in an informal recital last year... But I'm on a hard-core Beethoven path right now, and can't really be distracted! Bad timing... sorry!

-J

Maybe next time.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151740 - 09/17/13 12:28 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1285
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Please temporarily put me down for Op. 17 No. 4 - before commitment there needs to be a chance to think about the deadline for providing a recording. I don't see the deadline in the initial post.


M.

Aha - forgot about the deadline. Please see above.


Thanks Polyphonist!

One other concern is if all recordings are accepted. This is music where the playing would be anything but literal in terms of rhythm, pulse and even the accompaniment notes with melodic impulse supreme.

I've posted about this re. some of the other pianoworld recitals without a definitive response - maybe it is thought that this is to be provocative or in some way confrontational but no one wants to put a fair bit of time into fine-tuning the playing of a work, and then record, if it won't be accepted and that time could have gone to other repertoire.

Through many harsh experiences with professional musicians in the past I've been conditioned to anticipate negativity and to have this as a source of anxiety and stress in sharing music with others.


M.

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#2151741 - 09/17/13 12:30 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Of course all recordings are accepted. Of course, try not to play the piece at half-speed, or miss most of the notes, but you get the idea.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151744 - 09/17/13 12:39 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'll take 41/2 (in E minor - I think the list is wrong; #1 is C#m, 3 is B, and 4 is Ab)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2151748 - 09/17/13 12:42 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1285
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Of course all recordings are accepted. Of course, try not to play the piece at half-speed, or miss most of the notes, but you get the idea.


Well that is just it . . . it might be half-speed or slower compared with other recordings, but with a highly differentiated palette of timbre and a flexible pulse to compensate and keep the momentum going.


M.

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#2151749 - 09/17/13 12:42 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'll take 41/2 (in E minor - I think the list is wrong; #1 is C#m, 3 is B, and 4 is Ab)

Check again. It's e/B/Ab/c# as I had it. So do you want 41/2, in B major, or the E minor, 41/1?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151750 - 09/17/13 12:43 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Of course all recordings are accepted. Of course, try not to play the piece at half-speed, or miss most of the notes, but you get the idea.


Well that is just it . . . it might be half-speed or slower compared with other recordings, but with a highly differentiated palette of timbre and a flexible pulse to compensate and keep the momentum going.


M.

Michael, just submit whatever you want to. I promise you it will be included. smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151753 - 09/17/13 12:54 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Um...e minor.

Interesting. Every score on IMSLP has the order as c#/e/B/Ab, as does Chopin's complete works list on Wikipedia and Rubinstein's recording.

However, your order is on the Op. 41 page of wikipedia and on the Chopin institute's website.

Is there a history to the numbering differences? I wasn't aware.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'll take 41/2 (in E minor - I think the list is wrong; #1 is C#m, 3 is B, and 4 is Ab)

Check again. It's e/B/Ab/c# as I had it. So do you want 41/2, in B major, or the E minor, 41/1?
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2151755 - 09/17/13 12:57 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Um...e minor.

Interesting. Every score on IMSLP has the order as c#/e/B/Ab, as does Chopin's complete works list on Wikipedia and Rubinstein's recording.

However, your order is on the Op. 41 page of wikipedia and on the Chopin institute's website.

Is there a history to the numbering differences? I wasn't aware.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'll take 41/2 (in E minor - I think the list is wrong; #1 is C#m, 3 is B, and 4 is Ab)

Check again. It's e/B/Ab/c# as I had it. So do you want 41/2, in B major, or the E minor, 41/1?

My Henle edition of the Mazurkas also has my order. I think we'll stick with that for this recital, but I'm going to look more into the numbering discrepancies.

...so 41/1 it is. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151756 - 09/17/13 01:01 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Fascinating! The answer lies here on pg. 42 of the introduction to the official Polish National Edition:

Click here for a pdf of the PWM Introduction
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2151759 - 09/17/13 01:04 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Fascinating! The answer lies here on pg. 42 of the introduction to the official Polish National Edition:

Click here for a pdf of the PWM Introduction

Very interesting.

Ha! So Chopin intended my order originally. I win. grin
(and you get to play the Mazurka you wanted, which is the first one. laugh )

Interested to hear how it comes out.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151776 - 09/17/13 01:37 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5379
Loc: Philadelphia
I never knew there were two different orders, either. I'll have to go back and check my own list, to be sure! (I know the mazurka I chose is Bb minor, so I'm not worried about my selection being wrong.. just want to see which edition I have.)

Michael - I second Poly's statement that no recording will be excluded on merit. I, for one, shall not be judgmental of any performances. If our good friend, BachMach2, wants to contribute, well.. that should set the standards for recording quality, at the least. grin

(Though I would hope that the audio quality of the recording be at least capable of presenting the artist's thoughts and interpretation in a comprehensible fashion.)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2151777 - 09/17/13 01:38 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Right now I'm trying to decide which mazurka to do. There are so many great ones.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151778 - 09/17/13 01:40 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

The deadline for submitting recordings or videos will be one month from the time of this original post - Wednesday, October 16. Please do try to get it in before then. Just send a PM to Derulux AND me containing your performance. The "recital" (recordings being posted by us in a list) will take place a few days later. smile


Good idea for a themed recital - but, with all due respect, the deadline is extremely unrealistic. November 16th would be more reasonable - and December 1st would be even better.

For example - the Alkan E-Cital was proposed in January - with a submission deadline of November.

The Grieg Lyric Piece E-Cital was originally proposed on 4/29/13 with a submission deadline of 9/10/13.

With an October 16th deadline I believe that the majority of folks who sign up will most likely already have the Mazurkas in their repertoire...which is fine, except that it doesn't give other folks much of an opportunity to learn and perfect a new piece.

Also - while it's good that you've opened this up to the ABF, let's face it, the Mazurkas as a whole are a quantum leap up in overall difficulty (both technically and musically). So if you really want ABF folks to participate you should at least give them first crack at the "easier" Mazurkas.

Just my personal opinion, of course. grin




Edited by carey (09/17/13 01:42 AM)
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#2151781 - 09/17/13 01:46 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: carey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: carey
With an October 16th deadline I believe that the majority of folks who sign up will most likely already have the Mazurkas in their repertoire...which is fine, except that it doesn't give other folks much of an opportunity to learn and perfect a new piece.

Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece. I, for one, have not even decided which one I'm going to learn yet. And if you've never done it before, this is an opportunity to challenge yourself. smile

Originally Posted By: carey
The Mazurkas as a whole are a quantum leap up in overall difficulty (both technically and musically). So if you really want ABF folks to participate you should at least give them first crack at the "easier" Mazurkas.

While this is not really a recital geared towards the beginners as the others have been, we are giving them a chance (encouraging them?) to participate if they so wish, and are advanced enough to play the repertoire we are doing. If they want the easier Mazurkas (except that there are no easy Mazurkas) they need only to "snap them up" as Michael says. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151784 - 09/17/13 01:48 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece, and if you've never done it before, this is an opportunity to challenge yourself. smile

I'm sure we all operate differently. For me, a month is plenty of time to get an easy piece under my fingers, and play it in such a way that my non-musical friends couldn't tell the difference.

But I'd need a couple more months to really play it.


-J
_________________________
Schubert Immersion: Bb Impromptu; C# minor and Ab Moments Musicaux; accompanying four songs (Suleika II, Rastlose Liebe, Du Liebst Mich Nicht, Im Fruhling); listening intensely to Die Schöne Müllerin and Winterreise

Chopin: first Ballade; Mozart: D minor concerto;

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#2151787 - 09/17/13 01:50 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece, and if you've never done it before, this is an opportunity to challenge yourself. smile

I'm sure we all operate differently. For me, a month is plenty of time to get an easy piece under my fingers, and play it in such a way that my non-musical friends couldn't tell the difference.

But I'd need a couple more months to really play it.


-J

I could get one of the Mazurkas under my fingers in a day, beet. And memorize it to boot. Truly playing them takes much, much longer. We all know that. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151790 - 09/17/13 01:53 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I could get the easier Mazurkas under my fingers in a day, beet. And memorize them to boot. Truly playing them takes much, much longer. We all know that. laugh

If we agree on that, why not set up the recital so that people have enough time to "truly" play them?
_________________________
Schubert Immersion: Bb Impromptu; C# minor and Ab Moments Musicaux; accompanying four songs (Suleika II, Rastlose Liebe, Du Liebst Mich Nicht, Im Fruhling); listening intensely to Die Schöne Müllerin and Winterreise

Chopin: first Ballade; Mozart: D minor concerto;

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#2151794 - 09/17/13 01:57 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I could get the easier Mazurkas under my fingers in a day, beet. And memorize them to boot. Truly playing them takes much, much longer. We all know that. laugh

If we agree on that, why not set up the recital so that people have enough time to "truly" play them?

1) most entrants will probably already know the Mazurka they're playing
2) if they don't, this is an exercise in internalizing a piece more quickly than one might be used to. Personally, I'm used to learning things very fast. If you're not, all the better. smile I don't expect technical perfection. Rather, I care if you have something to say.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151795 - 09/17/13 02:00 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Op 68, No 2 in A minor.
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2151798 - 09/17/13 02:04 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: BruceD]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Op 68, No 2 in A minor.

You're on. smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2151800 - 09/17/13 02:08 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1508
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

While this is not really a recital geared towards the beginners as the others have been, we are giving them a chance (encouraging them?) to participate if they so wish, and are advanced enough to play the repertoire we are doing. If they want the easier Mazurkas (except that there are no easy Mazurkas) they need only to "snap them up" as Michael says. grin


Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the Michael who recently posted in the ABF forum thread 'themed recital -- Joplin' he seems to have been "snapping them up" before a recital possibility has even advanced beyond the twinkle in someone's skull - in fact I think in one instance he was both proposer and snapper.

Doesn't anyone here have the wit to devise/introduce some modicum of fairness?

It may require a bit more work but here are two suggestions.

If you REALLY want to invite the ABF'ers to participate, then ringfence as well as possible the 'easier' pieces in the theme. (Yes, I know, this can't be an exact science but an approximation will do).

Instigate a lottery system for the most popular pieces or any piece with multiple interest. There are various online systems (short straw etc) which could be monitored here by a willing member.

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#2151803 - 09/17/13 02:10 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Michael Sayers]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
[...]One other concern is if all recordings are accepted. This is music where the playing would be anything but literal in terms of rhythm, pulse and even the accompaniment notes with melodic impulse supreme.


I'm not sure what you mean about the playing being "anything but literal...." Is any playing of any score "literal"?

Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
I've posted about this re. some of the other pianoworld recitals without a definitive response - maybe it is thought that this is to be provocative or in some way confrontational but no one wants to put a fair bit of time into fine-tuning the playing of a work, and then record, if it won't be accepted and that time could have gone to other repertoire.


Provocative? Confrontational?
This is simply meant to be an exercise wherein we all share our playing with others. It is not a competition to be judged, nor should performances be compared.

Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Through many harsh experiences with professional musicians in the past I've been conditioned to anticipate negativity and to have this as a source of anxiety and stress in sharing music with others.
M.


If anyone has such feelings about being "conditioned to anticipate negativity" and to experience "anxiety and stress" perhaps that person should not participate in this exercise.

It seems wrong, even before the project gets underway, to undermine it with suggestions of negativity.
_________________________
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