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#2151806 - 09/17/13 02:13 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: carey
With an October 16th deadline I believe that the majority of folks who sign up will most likely already have the Mazurkas in their repertoire...which is fine, except that it doesn't give other folks much of an opportunity to learn and perfect a new piece.

Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece. I, for one, have not even decided which one I'm going to learn yet. And if you've never done it before, this is an opportunity to challenge yourself. smile


Of course, many of the Mazurkas are much longer than two pages...but, you're correct, some are fairly short. Folks will either have time to do this - or they won't - depending on what else is going on in their lives over the next month. I'm just saying that with a longer deadline you'll probably get greater participation.

Originally Posted By: carey
The Mazurkas as a whole are a quantum leap up in overall difficulty (both technically and musically). So if you really want ABF folks to participate you should at least give them first crack at the "easier" Mazurkas.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
While this is not really a recital geared towards the beginners as the others have been, we are giving them a chance (encouraging them?) to participate if they so wish, and are advanced enough to play the repertoire we are doing. If they want the easier Mazurkas (except that there are no easy Mazurkas) they need only to "snap them up" as Michael says. grin


The past e-citals have not necessarily been geared toward beginners (for example we did a Beethoven Sonata e-cital in 2010. More generic ones (like the past Chopin or Schumann e-citals) have provided opportunities for both beginners and seasoned pianists. Guess we'll just have to see how many ABF folks snap the easy ones up. grin


Edited by carey (09/17/13 02:14 AM)
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#2151807 - 09/17/13 02:14 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: dire tonic]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the Michael who recently posted in the ABF forum thread 'themed recital -- Joplin' he seems to have been "snapping them up" before a proposed recital has even advanced beyond the twinkle in someone's skull - in fact I think in one instance he was both proposer and snapper.

If you look back in this thread you will find that Michael very fairly entered for his chosen Mazurka, and the comments you reference in the Joplin thread were made after that happened.
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#2151810 - 09/17/13 02:18 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I could get the easier Mazurkas under my fingers in a day, beet. And memorize them to boot. Truly playing them takes much, much longer. We all know that. laugh

If we agree on that, why not set up the recital so that people have enough time to "truly" play them?

1) most entrants will probably already know the Mazurka they're playing
2) if they don't, this is an exercise in internalizing a piece more quickly than one might be used to. Personally, I'm used to learning things very fast. If you're not, all the better. smile I don't expect technical perfection. Rather, I care if you have something to say.


No matter how well - or poorly we say it??? Wouldn't it make more sense to give folks enough time to perfect a piece to the best of their ability? After all, we want members to actually listen to these recordings...... wink

I'm gonna shut up now.


Edited by carey (09/17/13 02:19 AM)
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#2151812 - 09/17/13 02:21 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Offline
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Posts: 7598
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I am in favor of keeping the current deadline. Until Derulux, the other organizer, weighs in on this issue, assume that either you play a piece you know, prepare a piece by October 16, or don't participate. It's that simple.
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#2151816 - 09/17/13 02:31 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Kreisler]
ChopinAddict Offline
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I think it is because the E minor was composed before the other 3 mazurkas of Opus 41 (in 1838, while the other 3 were composed in 1839), but the order does differ in different editions. Even the Paderewski edition has it has No.2.
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#2151823 - 09/17/13 02:52 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Derulux Offline
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5314
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I am in favor of keeping the current deadline. Until Derulux, the other organizer, weighs in on this issue, assume that either you play a piece you know, prepare a piece by October 16, or don't participate. It's that simple.

Everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses, and different amounts of time they can devote. To me, this is a reasonable deadline for a mazurka. I will only have 2-3 hours to work on the piece, myself, but it is a piece I played years ago, so I'm hedging my bet.

I would say this about the deadline -- let's see where the chips fall. If enough members feel they can participate by Oct 16, then let's keep the date, and members who feel it's a little too short a timeline can jump in on round 2. If the majority of members feel it's too short a timeline, to where we don't have a full recital, then let's adjust so that the recital itself is not compromised.
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#2151824 - 09/17/13 02:53 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Ganddalf Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 636
Loc: Norway
I would really like to participate. But I’m a bit concerned about the deadline, since I have limited time for practicing.
If the deadline is firm, I go for Op.67/2 in g-minor.

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#2151825 - 09/17/13 02:53 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: dire tonic]
Michael Sayers Online   content
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Originally Posted By: dire tonic

Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the Michael who recently posted in the ABF forum thread 'themed recital -- Joplin' he seems to have been "snapping them up" before a recital possibility has even advanced beyond the twinkle in someone's skull - in fact I think in one instance he was both proposer and snapper.

Doesn't anyone here have the wit to devise/introduce some modicum of fairness?

It may require a bit more work but here are two suggestions.

I apologize if I seemed to be jumping ahead in line with the three pieces from Op. 82 for the hypothetical Schumann recital. I wasn't really wanting to be allowed to do that as the same rules would apply to me as to everyone else, rather I was responding to inner enthusiasm for Schumann's music. And if the Schumann recital materializes and I "snap up" something another member wants to play, that member can PM or email me and I'll be happy to hand it over even if the result is that I don't participate!

Originally Posted By: dire tonic
If you REALLY want to invite the ABF'ers to participate, then ringfence as well as possible the 'easier' pieces in the theme. (Yes, I know, this can't be an exact science but an approximation will do).

Instigate a lottery system for the most popular pieces or any piece with multiple interest. There are various online systems (short straw etc) which could be monitored here by a willing member.

My feeling is that to allow more than one member to record a work is the finest and best solution as the choice of music says something too about a pianist, not only how each particular work is played.

Having more than one recording of a work might make for an interesting discussion.


M.

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#2151827 - 09/17/13 02:58 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Michael Sayers]
dire tonic Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers

My feeling is that to allow more than one member to record a work is the finest and best solution as the choice of music says something too about a pianist, not only how each particular work is played.

Having more than one recording of a work might make for an interesting discussion.


M.


I was under the impression that the pieces would be assigned exclusively - hence Polyphonist's advice to be the early bird. But, yes, I think it's a good idea to allow more than one pianist to a piece.

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#2151829 - 09/17/13 03:07 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Online   content
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1125
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the Michael who recently posted in the ABF forum thread 'themed recital -- Joplin' he seems to have been "snapping them up" before a proposed recital has even advanced beyond the twinkle in someone's skull - in fact I think in one instance he was both proposer and snapper.

If you look back in this thread you will find that Michael very fairly entered for his chosen Mazurka, and the comments you reference in the Joplin thread were made after that happened.


Actually I didn't fully commit to the Op. 17 No. 4 Mazurka, which is because there is uncertainty about recording arrangements, so out of fairness I should plan to do it separately, put it on youtube, and post a link in the members' recordings forum.


M.

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#2151839 - 09/17/13 03:35 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
-Frycek Offline
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Just FYI. This has been done. The "ABF folks" held a three part Mazurka Marathon over the course of a year about five years ago, We played ALL of them, not just the easier ones as "we" have so graciously been offered
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#2151860 - 09/17/13 04:35 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: BruceD]
Michael Sayers Online   content
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1125
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: BruceD

I'm not sure what you mean about the playing being "anything but literal...." Is any playing of any score "literal"?

It is about a particular sort of measuring stick used to interpret music by most musicians I know. I don't interpret music with a measuring stick or keep to the score as notated when the use of piano tone and sonority required for emotional expression necessitates alteration.

Originally Posted By: BruceD
Provocative? Confrontational?
This is simply meant to be an exercise wherein we all share our playing with others. It is not a competition to be judged, nor should performances be compared.

I was concerned because as the only one here vocal about an issue with musical non-acceptance it might seem to be about something other than just getting the facts about if something is okay or not, and so far (except for this one recital with Polyphonist) there hasn't been a decisive reply from a recital administrator about the issue.

Originally Posted By: BruceD
If anyone has such feelings about being "conditioned to anticipate negativity" and to experience "anxiety and stress" perhaps that person should not participate in this exercise. It seems wrong, even before the project gets underway, to undermine it with suggestions of negativity.

The anticipation of negativity from professional musicians has been deeply and powerfully ingrained starting even when I was a child as in having to withdraw from a school rather than receive an "F" for not interpreting a Beethoven sonata movement in the traditional range of tempo. You are right, this is not a competition, yet the concept of submitting a recording is suggestive of placing oneself at the mercy of a professional musician - many are flexible and tolerant, but many also (in my experience) are tremendously sadistic as with the example above which had nothing to do with piano playing skill.

I am one of those persons who does everything step-by-step and if an issue can be anticipated to possibly occur at the end it can make more sense to do something else that can be seen through to completion of the goal.

The only way to find out what is thought about something is to ask, so this is why I have been asking these questions to the pianoworld recital administrators. Since asking in other threads hasn't gotten that clear and decisive response from a recital administrator, it felt like some elaboration about the reason for asking might be necessary.

Recording arrangements are uncertain so I can't fairly commit to the Chopin Mazurka Op. 17 No. 4 in such a short time frame during which to record. Probably it is best to let all of this go as I won't be involved with this recital and as far as I know the other pianists here haven't been conditioned to need to ask about such things.

I look forward to hearing everyone's recordings!


M.

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#2151895 - 09/17/13 06:04 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 364
Loc: Pennsylvania
67/4

Isn't this thread about selecting?

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#2151909 - 09/17/13 06:56 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
PrestoConFuocco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 92
Sign me up for op. 24 no. 1.
And about the deadline, I think it'd better if we delayed it a bit (Two-three weeks). Mazurkas are deceitful pieces, though you can technically learn them in a day or two, they take a long time to polish up. (And by polishing up I mean to make them sound Polish enough :P )
I have a selfish reason too, I'm gonna be abroad for two weeks this month, so I won't have as much time as I'd like. But that's just me.
Anyway, this is a very cool idea smile
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#2151924 - 09/17/13 07:27 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: -Frycek]
Polyphonist Offline
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Registered: 03/03/13
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Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
Just FYI. This has been done. The "ABF folks" held a three part Mazurka Marathon over the course of a year about five years ago, We played ALL of them, not just the easier ones as "we" have so graciously been offered

I never offered anyone any easy ones. And is this an issue for anyone, that this has been done already? I didn't know...
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#2151928 - 09/17/13 07:30 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: jrcallan]
Polyphonist Offline
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Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: jrcallan
67/4

Isn't this thread about selecting?

Yes, but you're committing to a piece when you post here.
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#2151945 - 09/17/13 08:12 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Morodiene Offline
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I have never learned any of the Mazurkas. It's a big hole in my piano education because I was self-taught for many years, and by the time I re-started lessons I had bigger fish to fry (meaning I had too much repertoire to catch up on).

At any rate, I'd love to do one, but with the other music I'm doing I'm not sure about the deadline. I'm confident I could learn a piece and record it within a month, but I don't know if I'd be happy with the quality of it.

I'd like to do 56/1 in B Major if I can get a little more time to do it.
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#2151999 - 09/17/13 09:57 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Quote:
Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece.


For some people. But others are less skilled (the ABF people who have been invited) than the average denizen of PC. Still others run departments or divisions, manage accounts, are on call at night two days per week, or have other job or family considerations that leave piano as just an activity.

My playing is OK, but I would be reluctant to commit to anything that close at hand because I couldn't guarantee that job or life considerations wouldn't intervene to suck up all available practice time. And I would be unwilling to hit the submit button on anything less than the best work I was capable of producing.

Maybe you'll reconsider the deadline if there are too many unclaimed pieces? Then again, if 90% are taken within days, .... never mind. smile
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#2152001 - 09/17/13 10:02 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Piano*Dad]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Quote:
Why not? A month is plenty of time to learn and perfect a two-page piece.


For some people. But others are less skilled (the ABF people who have been invited) than the average denizen of PC. Still others run departments or divisions, manage accounts, are on call at night two days per week, or have other job or family considerations that leave piano as just an activity.

My playing is OK, but I would be reluctant to commit to anything that close at hand because I couldn't guarantee that job or life considerations wouldn't intervene to suck up all available practice time. And I would be unwilling to hit the submit button on anything less than the best work I was capable of producing.

Maybe you'll reconsider the deadline if there are too many unclaimed pieces? Then again, if 90% are taken within days, .... never mind. smile
Exactly. I may be able to learn it and get a recording, but there's no buffer for if things come up.
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#2152010 - 09/17/13 10:11 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
either you play a piece you know, prepare a piece by October 16, or don't participate. It's that simple.

Polyphonist, you asked recently why there was a tendency to identify ABF and PC participants as separate groups. This quote exemplifies what I often see as a difference in an ABF and a PC attitude. So far, the themed recitals in the ABF have been encouraging of people, trying to find a way for as many people as possible to participate, regardless of their skill level, and finding ways to accomodate people's skills and schedules. This quote on the other hand expects many people to either know the pieces already, or be able to prepare one quickly, or be left out, and delivers it with a dismissive "it's that simple."

I know you participate in both forums, but statements like the one quoted illustrate why I for one think of the ABF and the PC as very different venues.
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#2152040 - 09/17/13 10:46 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 830
I would like to do this because I have actually never played a Mazurka before (I've danced one though!). Can I do Op. 7 no 1 please if no one else has taken it? If I continue to be unemployed, I should have PLENTY of time to practice in a month...

Also, would it be cheating if I posted a recording in the "member recording" forum before to get some feedback? It's mostly style things that I'm worried about.

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#2152083 - 09/17/13 11:31 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Polyphonist Offline
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Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
I would like to do this because I have actually never played a Mazurka before (I've danced one though!). Can I do Op. 7 no 1 please if no one else has taken it? If I continue to be unemployed, I should have PLENTY of time to practice in a month...

Also, would it be cheating if I posted a recording in the "member recording" forum before to get some feedback? It's mostly style things that I'm worried about.

Nope, not cheating. Do whatever you need to. grin

And you can view the list of entries at the top of the page. 7/1 isn't taken yet, so it's yours. Have fun. smile
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#2152084 - 09/17/13 11:34 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Piano*Dad]
Polyphonist Offline
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Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Maybe you'll reconsider the deadline if there are too many unclaimed pieces?

Yes, I will. But I will try opening it up for seconds and thirds first. smile
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#2152109 - 09/17/13 11:59 AM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Maybe you'll reconsider the deadline if there are too many unclaimed pieces?

Yes, I will. But I will try opening it up for seconds and thirds first. smile


Why is this such a hard thing to do? From my count, there's only one definitely in favor of the Oct. 16 deadline, with Derelux stating having 2 deadlines, so I guess that counts, and Bruce D. and one other poster signing up officially, so that's maybe 3 people OK with Oct. 16, and then you have 8 or 9 including myself saying we'd like a bit more time.

So far, it seems there are quite a few people bothered by the short time frame. What is the reason for this? If you can learn a piece in that amount of time, great, record it and have it done early. I have yet to see a good argument for getting the recital deadline so soon, and lots of arguments for allowing more time.
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#2152118 - 09/17/13 12:08 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
Mwm Offline
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Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Please recommend good editions of the Mazurkas.

Thanks

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#2152140 - 09/17/13 12:34 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
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Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1222
I would LOVE to participate, especially since I a) love the mazurkas, and b) my teacher suggested we pick one of these up as a next piece to work on.

So I don't have one I play yet, and since I'm not exactly that advanced, do you guys have any to suggest that aren't already taken but would be do-able in a month for someone like me? It's taking me at least that long to get to non-panic state on most of my pieces, so I'm a little apprehensive of a month timeframe.

ETA: What about Op. 30 No. 2 (b minor)?


Edited by TwoSnowflakes (09/17/13 12:47 PM)
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#2152175 - 09/17/13 01:19 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Polyphonist]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 830
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

And you can view the list of entries at the top of the page. 7/1 isn't taken yet, so it's yours. Have fun. smile


I know. I was just covering my bases in case someone managed to claim that one in the 20 seconds before I could post smile

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#2152204 - 09/17/13 02:00 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Derulux Offline
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5314
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
I would LOVE to participate, especially since I a) love the mazurkas, and b) my teacher suggested we pick one of these up as a next piece to work on.

So I don't have one I play yet, and since I'm not exactly that advanced, do you guys have any to suggest that aren't already taken but would be do-able in a month for someone like me? It's taking me at least that long to get to non-panic state on most of my pieces, so I'm a little apprehensive of a month timeframe.

ETA: What about Op. 30 No. 2 (b minor)?

I think that might be okay. It's a 2-pager, and wasn't that hard for me to grasp the concept under my fingers when I read through it. In general, I think the lower the opus number, the easier the piece. There are quite a few difficult mazurkas in the later groups. (Of course, there are some difficult ones in the early groups, too, so take this with a canister of salt.)
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#2152212 - 09/17/13 02:17 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
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Posts: 1222
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
I would like to do this because I have actually never played a Mazurka before (I've danced one though!).


I think I've danced to at least six of these! They do appear to make a regular appearance in ballet classes throughout the world. I want to play one that I am familiar with through ballet, but I'm hoping to keep it to the adagio selections. I already have enough problems with the grand allegro combinations. No need to add the accompaniment itself to the problem. Though, to be fair, my piano playing is likely a good deal better than my dancing. smile There have been times when I am standing in a nice preparatory position, frantically trying to remember the combination that I'm about to attempt, and I think to myself, "the likelihood of a successful artistic outcome is higher if I were sitting at the piano rather than dancing in front of it."
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2152213 - 09/17/13 02:19 PM Re: Chopin Mazurkas - Forum Recital! [Re: Derulux]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1222
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
I would LOVE to participate, especially since I a) love the mazurkas, and b) my teacher suggested we pick one of these up as a next piece to work on.

So I don't have one I play yet, and since I'm not exactly that advanced, do you guys have any to suggest that aren't already taken but would be do-able in a month for someone like me? It's taking me at least that long to get to non-panic state on most of my pieces, so I'm a little apprehensive of a month timeframe.

ETA: What about Op. 30 No. 2 (b minor)?

I think that might be okay. It's a 2-pager, and wasn't that hard for me to grasp the concept under my fingers when I read through it. In general, I think the lower the opus number, the easier the piece. There are quite a few difficult mazurkas in the later groups. (Of course, there are some difficult ones in the early groups, too, so take this with a canister of salt.)


Oh, good. I'll see what I can do with it tonight and if it looks like I could maybe wrestle it to the ground in four weeks, I'll take it! Assuming nobody else does, since I haven't yet officially claimed it.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
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