Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum I am soooo stumped. 1916 Francis Bacon Player Piano

So frustrated. Read so much material. This reminds me of learning how to weld; you just really cannot learn it from a book and absolutely need to work with an instructor.
I tried regulating my upright Francis Bacon. It had been completely rebuilt in 1980 and basically sat in someone's house. Hammers looked brand new. Player part had some vacuum leaks that were easy to track down thanks to Tuttle's YouTube vids.

Back to the Regulation: I had two yahoos come out and really screw up things. One guy pulled all the springs to increase tension because I wanted better repetition. He said that was all he could do. Another guy said some really strange things. Talking to him some more I found out he lived in a bus in a vacant lot. YOU PIANO TECHNICIANS HAVE IT TOUGH!

Someone here could probable make some money offering to provide mentoring via skyp or something. Billing in 30 minute/one hour intervals etc.

I wonder if this is similar to working on Model A's. Each repair is different from one car to the next because of the age of the vehicles and all the other crap other folks have done to these 80 year old cars. Fortunately I have spent most of my life working on cars.

Anyway, found a guy who rebuilds high-end pianos to come by. I first checked him out before the call. Have high hopes to get something better than what I can do.

And fellas working on Player Piano's are a dying breed. Similar to common folks who all used to know how to spin a wrench or swing a hammer. Today's young folks only can do something if they have an ap on their smart phone...

Your repetition may not improve a whole lot. Others that know more will chime in to correct me, but on the older player pianos often the key sticks are longer = more mass. The stickers on the action have additional "fingers" on them to allow the player to connect to the action. More mass.

Could be friction is a problem such as tight center pins. Could just need a good regulation.

Also keep in mind if it was rebuilt in 1980, then the work is now 30+ years old. You'll have more leaks start happening as the pneumatic cloth starts to deteriorate.

Players can be tricky to work on. Especially if the player still functions. If it has to be removed to do work on the regular action, some of the rubber tubes can break. Extra care has to be taken when removing and installing the player stack.

Hi PepeLoco - Sorry to hear about your troubles finding a technician to bring your piano up to snuff. Putting an upright piano in proper regulation is an exacting job, consisting of making a series of adjustments for each note of the piano, then going back and rechecking and readjusting a second and sometimes even a third time. These adjustments were made at the factory, and one would assume again by the technician who did the rebuilding work on your piano, but most likely need to be done again. For every adjustment there is a felt cushion or spacer which becomes compacted over the years, causing adjustments which were originally made to no longer be correctly set.

If your technician knows his job, he should be (at a bare minimum) leveling the keys, setting the hammer blow, adjusting the let-off, setting the back check, setting the dip, and checking for aftertouch. This is for every note, and the process should take at least several hours.

If your technician instead goes through and makes an adjustment here and there, he is "spot" regulating, and probably causing more problems than he is solving. If, for example, a key is bouncing up against the strings repeatedly with a single blow (bobbling), I can easily fix that problem by turning down a regulating screw which will cause the key to let off sooner. The problem is, I now have a note with little power because it is being tripped too soon, and is not being carried close enough to the strings before being released.

Here's some information I give my customers that you might look over to bring yourself a bit more up to speed so that you are able to converse more knowledgeably with your technician. Good communication never hurts. Best of luck in getting your piano working properly. Chuck Behm

The Player part actually works pretty good.
I just don't like how the key stroke is soooo long/deep.
I used Reblitz's book and

1. Regulated Blow Distance/Hammer rail to 1 3/4"
2. Winked or regulated Lost Motion
3. Set White Key Height and level and slightly rased Balance Rail
4. Dito on Sharps
5. Regulated Let off at 1/8"
6. Set White/Black key depth to 7/16"
7. Aligned backchecks, squared them,
8. Set Hammer Check at 3/8"
9. Set Bridal Straps
10. Regulated pedals
11. I also put in new felt on the hammers for the front rail pins due to slop, left to right movement of the keys.
12. Added new Damper springs


Weird thing is that I cannot regulate the key depth to be deeper. If I remove all the front rail punches and the key will not go all the way down, regardless of where hammer letoff, and Backchecks are set. I cannot get the key to "bottom out". Is this typical? I would have thought the keys would have bottom out on the front rail pins regardless of the letoff and backcheck settings? I would thought the hammer would have blocked the strings if the keys would have bottomed out.
Also I cannot get the jacks to show 1/16 or any gap between it and the Butt Buckskin regardless of where the letoff and backchecks are set. Is this due to the Jack springs set too strong, due to the one tech stretching each spring?
I did add some yarn so the old hammer butts buckskin have the same shape configuration as a new one.

I replaced tight and sloppy (too much side to side movement) pins and bushings at several flanges for easy/quick and smooth movement.

I have the Player portion removed while I have attempted to regulate this piano. Player part actually works great.
Any insight is hugely appreciated. I have a much deeper for folks how really understand the complexities of the piano mechanics as true craftsmen (and women).

Oh, I refinished the cabinet and reveneered it too, but that was something I am familiar with.

Any help or tips are hugely appreciated.

Dear PepeLoco - Check to make sure that the hammer spring rail isn't set too close to the dampers. It has a felt backing on it which the damper wires will come in contact with if there are too many spacers in between the action brackets and the spring rail. Just a possibility. If there isn't sufficient space for the backwards travel of the dampers, this can impede the downward motion of the key, giving a feeling as if the key is not bottoming out. Chuck

Actually, the key dip that you have is extremely deep. 3/8" over the key pin or at the key front is more usual.