Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 44 of 45 < 1 2 ... 42 43 44 45 >
Topic Options
#2152373 - 09/17/13 06:16 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
helloworld1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 82
Great! Thank you for the brief review and waiting for the full review. Take your time smile

Top
(ad) Roland

Click Here

#2181825 - 11/13/13 05:34 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
careezma Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Banned
“The Easiest and Most Effective way
to Learn Piano & Keyboard Online”

http://www.pianoworld.com/advertising/


Edited by BB Player (01/08/14 05:22 PM)
Edit Reason: Changed link

Top
#2190344 - 11/30/13 12:59 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: TonyB]
E. Christensen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 38
Wow- this is incredible stuff, now I just have to figure out how to use it!

E. Christensen

Top
#2192390 - 12/04/13 12:11 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
KAWAI ES100

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/download/626c8pbyjmstt2k/
pix: http://www.mediafire.com/download/dmhk9i6tvcjjfb7/

---------------
- Kawai ES100 -
---------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v2.0_kawai_es100.mp3
- MIDI (USB) sequenced with Synthesia, audio capture / MP3 conversion with Audacity.
- Recorded by "Daniel Richter".
PROS:
- Passes the pedal sympathetic resonance test - the effect is visible and audible.
- Passes the quick partial damping test.
- Passes the late pedal partial damping test up to the test limit of 0.5 seconds.
- Passes the half pedaling test.
- Except for a stretch group of 2, all notes are sampled.
- This is most likely a smoothly blended multi-velocity sample set.
- Faint "loom of strings" sound with pedal down, "clunk" with pedal up.
- Key-up "clunk".
CONS:
- Fails the key sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the silent replay test @ pedal up.
- Decay times over the full range are somewhat short (~1/2 Pianoteq).
- Attack sample lengths are (C1:C8): 1.8,1.4,1.3,1.9,1.6,1.4,0.9,? seconds.
- Loop sample lengths are (C1:C8): 1.4,0.7,0.65,?,0.63,0.65,?,? seconds.
- Obviously looped, lower and mid notes could benefit from longer decay loops.
- Partially damped notes don't sound "buzzy".
OTHER:
- Spectral signatures same as CN33, CA63, ES6 (same base sample set).
- Notes played @ vel=1 produce no sound.
- Dampered | undampered transition: F#6 | G6.
- Dynamic range 46dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -0.2dB, noise floor @ -65dB.
- Date reviewed: 2013-12-03.


NOTE: Stripped down (text only) reviews from here on out to who-knows-when to hopefully enable me to dig out of my backlog and stay on top of things in this project.

MP3 DONORS: Feel free to reply here or via PM if you want anything added/changed with your DP review. In particular, personal observations regarding your DP are most welcome additions.

[EDIT]I should have noted that the analysis above was a collaborative effort between Daniel Richter and myself. Daniel's Audition-fu is quite impressive!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2192440 - 12/04/13 01:54 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Czech Republic
I have a question regarding: 'Partially damped notes don't sound "buzzy".' How exactly are partially damped notes coded in MIDI? Can a note be partially damped forever (without ever being 'Off') or partially damped and then undamped without being played again? So far I lived under the impression that partial damping (not pedalling) is very limited, if not impossible on DPs. I apologise if this has been discussed, I obviously haven't read the whole thread.

Top
#2192562 - 12/04/13 06:04 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Hookxs]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
I have a question regarding: 'Partially damped notes don't sound "buzzy".' How exactly are partially damped notes coded in MIDI?

It isn't coded directly by MIDI.

On a real AP if you play a note with the pedal down, then lift the key, the note should ring on. If you then partially lift the pedal, the string will buzz against the damper.

This same series of commands in MIDI - pedal down, note on, note off (usually note on with zero velocity), pedal partially up - can produce buzzy decay sounds if the DP supports this.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2192578 - 12/04/13 06:20 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Czech Republic
I see. I thought you meant direct damping by the key itself without any use of pedal. On AP you can press a key and slowly lift it back until the damper starts touching the strings and I was curious if similar thing can somehow be achieved on DPs.

Top
#2192582 - 12/04/13 06:26 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Welcome back dewster!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2192622 - 12/04/13 07:58 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Hookxs]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
I see. I thought you meant direct damping by the key itself without any use of pedal. On AP you can press a key and slowly lift it back until the damper starts touching the strings and I was curious if similar thing can somehow be achieved on DPs.

I see. You would need continuous position tracking of each key to do that, something DPs (outside of the VAX77 controller and perhaps the Yamaha AGs) don't do. (And even if they do it they probably can't / don't use the release information this way).
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2192714 - 12/05/13 12:16 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
E. Christensen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 38
I just have to say again that this is great information. I have shared it with some that I know. A wealth of information, that is to say the least!

Top
#2193878 - 12/07/13 09:46 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: E. Christensen]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: E. Christensen
I just have to say again that this is great information. I have shared it with some that I know. A wealth of information, that is to say the least!

Glad you're finding some value in this project!

I should have noted that the ES100 analysis (above) was a collaborative effort between Daniel Richter and myself. Daniel's Audition-fu is quite impressive!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2194650 - 12/08/13 06:18 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 141
Loc: Venezuela
Thanks, although I still have much to learn. smile


Edited by Daniel Richter (12/08/13 06:20 PM)
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

Top
#2220367 - 01/25/14 04:28 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
pocoapoco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 4
Has anyone ever done the DPBSD on an actual acoustic piano and recorded it? My goal is to take my favorite piano sample library, Sampletekk's Black Grand Ambient, and, through the use of Kontakt and Kontakt's script engine, rewrite the instrument so that it passes the DPBSD test 100%. I'd like to have an audio recording from a real acoustic so that I have a reference for easy side-by-side comparison while the Kontakt instrument is being developed.

Top
#2220570 - 01/25/14 12:51 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: pocoapoco]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: pocoapoco
Has anyone ever done the DPBSD on an actual acoustic piano and recorded it?

Not sure it's possible, unless you can rustle up an acoustic piano with a MIDI IN jack.

Even then, there's no guarantee it will pass all the tests. It obviously wouldn't be layered, stretched, or looped, but it might not track key and pedal stuff with full fidelity.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2220769 - 01/25/14 08:52 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
pocoapoco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 4
Well you can replicate the test with an actual performance not just midi. It would be important to hear what half pedaling and sympathetic resonance actually sounds like for instance.

Top
#2220775 - 01/25/14 09:13 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Marcos Daniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 131
Loc: Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
You can try yourself on any piano!

Top
#2220877 - 01/26/14 04:00 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Marcos Daniel]
pocoapoco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 4
Do you have one you can give me?

Top
#2221675 - 01/27/14 09:22 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: pocoapoco]
twl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/12
Posts: 6
Try pianoteq trial. I believe Pianoteq passed every DPBSD test without a problem, so I am guessing that it has the acoustic behaviors comprehensively modelled. Would that suffice?

Top
#2223047 - 01/30/14 10:29 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: twl]
pocoapoco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: twl
Try pianoteq trial. I believe Pianoteq passed every DPBSD test without a problem, so I am guessing that it has the acoustic behaviors comprehensively modelled. Would that suffice?


I have actually already tried the pianoteq trial. I found the sound to be too synthetic sounding still although it is improved over previous versions. My main reason in asking if someone has recorded an acoustic is to hear the fine details. For instance in the late pedal test. I'd like to hear how the harmonics and other characteristics of the sound behave. There's much more to it to get it to sound realistic than just switching on or off samples at the right time. And it's not something that you can simply go to a store and play an acoustic and remember. Very careful comparisons have to be made side by side. Nobody seems to get that.


Edited by pocoapoco (01/30/14 10:30 AM)

Top
#2223247 - 01/30/14 04:52 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Volunteering to make a test file for the Casio PX-5S, can't see that it has been done, although I only scrolled through about ten pages (of 44) in the thread.

I understand I need to do a factory reset, which means all user settings will be wiped out, but I need to reorganize my stage settings anyway, so it's just fine. Anything else I need to look out for? I've downloaded the MIDI file.
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

Top
#2223379 - 01/30/14 10:59 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: TheodorN]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: TheodorN
Volunteering to make a test file for the Casio PX-5S, can't see that it has been done, although I only scrolled through about ten pages (of 44) in the thread.

Thanks mate! Not 100% sure, but I believe the piano voice is the same as the PX-350.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2223390 - 01/30/14 11:22 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
I think so too, does that mean the conclusions of the test should be the same for the PX-5S as they were for the PX-350?

Then I have yet to find out how to feed the MIDI file to the piano and make it record and play it at the same time. Don't know if I have to feed it to the USB connection at the back, so the USB key slot is free to record.

Would a simple MIDI player like the one in Synthesia or Notation Composer suffice for that? Those are the only ways I've sent MIDI files to the piano. blush I'll check the Casio forums for a simple solution, possibly send a question in the Facebook group.


Edited by TheodorN (01/30/14 11:23 PM)
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

Top
#2223411 - 01/31/14 12:22 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
I'm making the mp3 file available for download at this URL:

https://notendur.hi.is/~thn8/dpbsd_v2.0_Casio_PX5S.mp3

I didn't do the following, asked for in the README file.

Instrument settings:
- Generally use the default patch, which should be the best acoustic piano, but with reverb off.
- You may want to do a factory reset in order to restore all defaults.
- Turn ON any sympathetic resonance effect.*
- Turn ON any key-up noise effect.*
- Turn ON any pedal up/down noise effect.*
- Turn OFF reverb, or any other delay effects such as chorus.
- Turn OFF, defeat, or center any EQ settings, amp models, etc.
- Set MIDI velocity curve to linear.
* If there is a level setting please leave it at the default setting. If the default is zero, or the effect is inaudible unless turned up, then please turn up the effect, but only to the point where it is audible/tasteful and not obnoxious.

Recording & MP3 output:
- Record to a WAV file, sample rate 44.1kHz, stereo, resolution 32 bit float if possible.

Mostly due to infamiliarity with my piano! I had the PX-5S set to stage setting 0-0, which is Concert grand piano, pretty basic settings, though. I'm pretty sure it's not EQ'd and reverb is set to Hall2 (no OFF setting exists, it seems, for reverb.)

Finally, sorry for the metronome clicking at the beginning. I could easily just cut it out in the program I converted the WAV file to MP3, ffmpeg. The MP3 file is 16 bit, not 32 bits as you ask for. I believe the original WAV is 16 bit also, not sure if the piano can record at 32 bits.


Edited by TheodorN (01/31/14 12:32 AM)
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

Top
#2223536 - 01/31/14 09:54 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Thanks! I snagged it and it's in stereo and the levels look OK for analysis. I've got a bit of a backlog going, hope to get to it soon.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2223811 - 01/31/14 06:57 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Great, I'm glad if you can use it, if not, just let me know!
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

Top
#2224244 - 02/01/14 03:36 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
compianist1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 121
Loc: Banned
I have these sounds.....the PMI Bosendorfer 290 sounds the best of the three, really nice but dynamics are too flat. The Fazioli is too dark and the Steinway B has the best dynamics but doesn't sound as good as the other two.

Top
#2224246 - 02/01/14 03:39 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
compianist1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 121
Loc: Banned
''Large dynamic range (54dB, vel=1:127)''

again, it's all theory. In practice, budget master keyboards, even the ones with hammer-action, are incapable of going from 1 to 127. They usually go only from 45 to 110, so they are unable to bring out the potential of Pianoteq and the dynamics are crap unless you have a spectacular master keyboard.


Edited by compianist1 (02/01/14 03:41 PM)

Top
#2224470 - 02/02/14 03:30 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
compianist1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 121
Loc: Banned
I bought an F20 a few days ago and it literally revolutionized my practicing life. I completely love it. I used to use sample libraries from East West and Imperfect Samples, also Pianoteq, they sound really great but a real problem is that master keyboards playability generally sucks. Playability wise, the F20 blow them all out of the window and it sounds really good too.

I'd like to send you the audio file but the problem is that a midi file, played back by the F20, seemn to be played back by the piano of it's General Midi sound set, not by the internal piano sound. I tried yesterday and that indeed is the case. The internal sound piano sound darker and better than the one in the GM set.

So, by playing back a midi file, it's no guarantee that a keyboard will use the main piano sound, as it might not be part of the GM set. Which might well be the case with the other tests done here. I'll give it another try in the next few days

Top
#2224580 - 02/02/14 11:11 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: compianist1]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: compianist1
I'd like to send you the audio file but the problem is that a midi file, played back by the F20, seemn to be played back by the piano of it's General Midi sound set, not by the internal piano sound. I tried yesterday and that indeed is the case. The internal sound piano sound darker and better than the one in the GM set.

This is a common issue with Roland SN DPs, the RD-700NX is the only one I know of that has an easy setting to play back whatever instrument is selected. The others you have to jump through major MIDI hoops to get the SN piano to play via MIDI.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2224592 - 02/02/14 11:46 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
I had similar problems with my Casio PX-5S, few weeks back. MIDI files played back would always change the voice on the piano to GM Piano 1. Then I found out I could prevent a program change with something called RX filter in the system settings, by setting it to filter out program changes, sent to the piano.

After doing that, the piano would always layer the songs with strings, that is, play both grand piano and strings. Mike Martin revealed to me that the piano was listening to incoming MIDI events on MIDI channel 2. In plain English, that means the piano would play a song with the voice that was set on MIDI channel 2, which was strings in my case. By putting grand piano on all four zones (or MIDI channels) the problem seemed to be solved.

This is however not happening anymore, even after a factory reset. There is no program change and the basic grand piano is played, when feeding a MIDI file to the piano.
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

Top
Page 44 of 45 < 1 2 ... 42 43 44 45 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
127 registered (Alkanaut, 36251, accordeur, Almaviva, ando, 44 invisible), 1368 Guests and 49 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74256 Members
42 Forums
153602 Topics
2251230 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Action regulating
by pater57
Today at 08:59 AM
Kurzweil SP5-8 as main studio keyboard/stage piano
by Barty
Today at 08:33 AM
Greg Pauley in Concert June 1st, Sunday 3:30pm
by Larry Buck
Today at 07:58 AM
Happy Easter!
by Marko in Boston
Today at 06:58 AM
Easter Themed Recordings - Kawai CA95
by wolferblade
Today at 04:55 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission