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#2199997 - 12/19/13 04:40 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5318
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Originally Posted By: Derulux

Sorry to hear about your tendonitis! Rest up well. If there's a specific section, or anything you'd like to look at to see if there's underlying stress in the playing, I'd be happy to take a look. smile


Well, the list of suspects is growing with a prescribed statin as a possible outlier. But, Derulux, that would be great if you could take a look Ė Iíll try and sort out a video in the next couple of days playing from the Bb jumps via the two Ebm bars into bar 13 - Gdim leading to Db/Ab (is this a standard arrangement or might it be written in other keys? - you mentioned Tom Brier who does it in G,A and B). Curiously, itís the only LH figure in the entire piece written in single notes and where the syncopation shifts to the LH too. I know I get tension there both in trying to force the weight of the sound with fewer notes and also to balance the rhythm which is inclined to feel looser. Iíve been trying also to take the level of the entire piece down a notch. Where it gets difficult I tend to be heavy handed so thatís probably not helping.

I just checked the list to make sure I had the rag right -- haha worse things have been known to happen! grin

I see you're down for the Country Club, which is the rag I thought was in question (except the arrangement I saw was in C).

I also see you're down for the Maple Leaf (my favorite), but bar 13 is a bdim7/D repeated chord if I remember correctly.

NO worries. If you can get a video up, I'll a) know the rag, and b) won't need the score to see what your hands are doing. smile
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#2199999 - 12/19/13 05:01 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Derulux]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Derulux
bar 13 is a bdim7/D repeated chord if I remember correctly.


- you're playing it in A with the trio going into D, like Tom Brier...

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#2200096 - 12/19/13 10:29 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5532
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Originally Posted By: Derulux
bar 13 is a bdim7/D repeated chord if I remember correctly.


- you're playing it in A with the trio going into D, like Tom Brier...


How ignorant innocent naive I am. It never occurred to me that people might be playing rags in other than the original key. I certainly couldn't transpose them on my own! I'll try to stay awake here, and keep learning new things laugh

Cathy
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#2200141 - 12/19/13 11:59 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Derulux]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Ok, here's a clip.

http://youtu.be/KD2L3wolzpE

It's only at performance tempo that I have a problem so that's how I've done it here. It's actually not quite as painful today - maybe because I've made a conscious effort to 'relax' but you might still be able to spot something I could improve? Also, I don't know if this view is telling enough. Might it have been more useful overhead?

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#2200184 - 12/19/13 01:37 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5318
Loc: Philadelphia
Nope, I'm playing it in Ab. And I'm guessing you are, too, and that the video clip isn't bar 13, but rather bars 9-16 of the Trio (which is in Db) with a little flip of the rhythm in bars 9-10. wink

The first thing I notice is that your hand, from this angle, appears to be nearly twice the size of mine! haha laugh

Your hand looks pretty relaxed, wrist looks good, nothing really weird going on, which makes a video diagnosis tougher. But since you do say you have the pain, I've got two ideas for you that you might want to check out, and if it's not one of them, we can try something else. Diagnosis of something less- and/or non- visible is a little bit semi-educated trial-and-error.

First, when you play these octaves, are you thinking in your head of a particular hand shape you have to "hold" to get it right inbetween the chords? The reason I ask this is because the distance between your 4th and 5th fingers doesn't appear to change through the measures, so there's at least some change you might be artificially holding some/all of your fingers "open" and/or "up".

Second, in conjunction with the first answer, and because I saw the tendons flexing on the pinky side of your wrist, there is the possibility that your hand is turned out slightly too far towards your pinky. Not twisting, because it doesn't look like you're going back and forth from straight to bent, but that your wrist is turned out (literally just a hair) too far towards the pinky, and that you might relieve some of the tension by straightening out the wrist a tad. Finger length might make this difficult if your hand really is that big, but give it a shot. If you can't adjust at the hand, look at the elbow (it was off-camera for me), and maybe you can bring the elbow in a hair.

These are relatively minor issues, obviously, but when you combine them with the real pounding you said you like to give the keys while practicing, it could exacerbate the problem. Let me know if the problem persists and we can go to round 2, or if one of these does the trick. smile
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#2200223 - 12/19/13 02:41 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Ok, here's a clip.

http://youtu.be/KD2L3wolzpE



WOW! shocked
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2200250 - 12/19/13 03:16 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Derulux]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Derulux
..the video clip isn't bar 13, but rather bars 9-16 of the Trio

Yes, I thought I should put bar 13 in context but now you mention it I suppose I could have just looped, say, 13 and 14.

Quote:
First, when you play these octaves, are you thinking in your head of a particular hand shape you have to "hold" to get it right inbetween the chords? The reason I ask this is because the distance between your 4th and 5th fingers doesn't appear to change through the measures, so there's at least some change you might be artificially holding some/all of your fingers "open" and/or "up".

Youíre right, 4 and 5 appear fixed but Iím not aware of holding a fixed position, only of necessary repositioning 1 and 5 to play the octave after playing the narrower intervening Bb7 chord where Iím using 5,3,1 (which felt more reliable than the 4,2,1 I tried). That said, Iíll make a point of consciously NOT holding a fixed position Ė that could help avoid tension.

Quote:
Second, in conjunction with the first answer, and because I saw the tendons flexing on the pinky side of your wrist, there is the possibility that your hand is turned out slightly too far towards your pinky. Not twisting, because it doesn't look like you're going back and forth from straight to bent, but that your wrist is turned out (literally just a hair) too far towards the pinky, and that you might relieve some of the tension by straightening out the wrist a tad. Finger length might make this difficult if your hand really is that big, but give it a shot. If you can't adjust at the hand, look at the elbow (it was off-camera for me), and maybe you can bring the elbow in a hair.

I think my hand size is slightly below average for a male so lens distortion must be at work here, also making that wrist angle look worse than it is. But you have a point Ė though my elbow is fully in for the chords itís out for the low octaves so Iíll try bringing it in a bit.

I wonder about the upper body movement during the Bb jumps. Newtonís third law is in evidence. When I swipe my arm in either direction, my torso is significantly doing the opposite - mostly because of the speed (momentum). Ideally Iíd like an assistant to hold me steady during these few bars. Another solution would be to put on an extra 100 lbs. Are you aware of any evasive action you take to curb that effect when you play the piece or doesnít it bother you?

Slightly off topic but not entirely; I really like what Tom Brier often does with his LH through Maple leaf - typically a group of 4 x 1/16 notes at the end of the even numbered bars. I can't do this at speed - in fact when I tried it seemed to leave me with a wrist pain similar to the one we're discussing here. Any tips for gaining speed for that kind of thing or is it something some of us just can't do?

Derulux, many thanks for broaching all this. Iím going to try what youíve suggested and I'll report back.

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#2200254 - 12/19/13 03:20 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: sinophilia]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jotur
How ignorant innocent naive I am

Well it looks like I got that completely wrong!


Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Ok, here's a clip.

http://youtu.be/KD2L3wolzpE



WOW! shocked

Yeah but that's only 8 bars! Putting it together is another story!!

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#2200265 - 12/19/13 03:38 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5318
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Ideally Iíd like an assistant to hold me steady during these few bars. Another solution would be to put on an extra 100 lbs. Are you aware of any evasive action you take to curb that effect when you play the piece or doesnít it bother you?

hahahahaha thumb This cracked me up. I would say, though, for your health alone, to skip the 100 lbs! laugh I don't really notice it that much, but actually I had to go back and sit down to see what the heck happens when I play. I do notice that I engage my core muscles quite a bit, but what I really notice is that I tend to use my legs as counter-balances. I never noticed that before, but I definitely do it. I can honestly say that everything from my toes all the way through my fingers is engaged when playing stride at that speed. Not actively tense, but definitely engaged.

Quote:
Slightly off topic but not entirely; I really like what Tom Brier often does with his LH through Maple leaf - typically a group of 4 x 1/16 notes at the end of the even numbered bars. I can't do this at speed - in fact when I tried it seemed to leave me with a wrist pain similar to the one we're discussing here. Any tips for gaining speed for that kind of thing or is it something some of us just can't do?

First tip -- play it slower. wink Go back and check out the Tom Brier video. His tempo is slower than yours. After that, yes, there is a way to play octaves, but this one is really hard to describe by typing. I really wish I could sit down and show you, because octaves are my best technique. You really have to be engaged from the shoulder through the elbow to get fast octaves. There's a kind of a "bounce" that happens, but it actually happens in two places to avoid tension -- at the wrist, yes, but also at the elbow. Too often, people hold their elbow stiff and just bounce the wrist, but you have to move the elbow just as much, or you tire out quickly. But, I mean, you're playing plenty fast already, so let's see if the tempo change doesn't alleviate this first. smile

Did you get that little flip in mm 9-10 from Brier? It sounds very similar to a flip I've heard there before, but I really can't place it, nor which performer did it. Might just be reminding me of something completely different, too.. you never know! grin

Quote:
Derulux, many thanks for broaching all this. Iím going to try what youíve suggested and I'll report back.

No problem at all.. I hope some of it is helpful. smile
_________________________
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#2201041 - 12/21/13 04:17 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1415
Loc: Georgia, USA
Played "Fig Leaf" for my teacher for the first time this week. She had an excellent suggestion for playing some of the left hand measures that had not occurred to me and was a real eye-opener.

Of course, all you excellent players will probably say I'm an idiot for not noticing this, but just in case, here it is:

The way I was fingering this measure:



I was just jumping my hand around each half beat, always with 5 on the bottom.

The way that LuAnn suggested I finger this measure:



This way, the hand doesn't move nearly as much. For instance, the second half of beat 2 in the first measure, the hand position doesn't change. The same thing for the second half of the first beat in the second measure.

In general, you can do this anywhere that the hand can reach both halves of a beat without moving, especially if it's just an octave.

It seems obvious now that someone has pointed it out to me. Of course, it doesn't look as cool without my hand jumping around everywhere - but I think it will be more accurate and help me get up to speed easier.

Sam

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#2201261 - 12/22/13 02:23 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Sam S]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: Sam S
Of course, all you excellent players will probably say I'm an idiot for not noticing this, but just in case...


Not at all... and definitely give it at shot. I'm working on a piece where I'm trying all manners of fingerings to make things work.

But also watch the YouTube ragtime pianists. Stride is pretty much 5 on the octave and 5 on the chord.
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Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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#2201487 - 12/22/13 04:38 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5318
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Whizbang
Originally Posted By: Sam S
Of course, all you excellent players will probably say I'm an idiot for not noticing this, but just in case...


Not at all... and definitely give it at shot. I'm working on a piece where I'm trying all manners of fingerings to make things work.

But also watch the YouTube ragtime pianists. Stride is pretty much 5 on the octave and 5 on the chord.


Yeah, not an idiot at all, by any means. I happen to play 5 for pretty much all of it, and would in this case, too, but if you find 4 easier, there's nothing wrong with it. Just watch that you're not holding your hand open to make it work. If you start feeling fatigue, discomfort, pain, anything, that would be a good indicator.

PS- you're not really moving your hand "less" in this case, just differently. The thumb still has to go just as far, and in ragtime, is often your "landing point" mentally.
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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2205043 - 12/30/13 03:05 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Dipsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 320
Hi folks,

I'm very likely to be moving house soon, with no guarantee of being able to play the piano regularly for quite a while, so I hope you won't mind the fact that I have handed over my piece - Leola - to Beric, who will do a good job of it, I know.

Good luck with getting your pieces ready, and I look forward to checking back in ere, once the recital goes live to see how its all going smile

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#2205467 - 12/31/13 01:38 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Dipsy]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: Dipsy
Hi folks,

I'm very likely to be moving house soon, with no guarantee of being able to play the piano regularly for quite a while, so I hope you won't mind the fact that I have handed over my piece - Leola - to Beric, who will do a good job of it, I know.

Good luck with getting your pieces ready, and I look forward to checking back in ere, once the recital goes live to see how its all going smile


Got it marked down. Thanks for the heads up and good luck with the move.
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Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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#2206540 - 01/01/14 06:48 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
Anne H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Originally Posted By: jotur
How ignorant innocent naive I am

Well it looks like I got that completely wrong!


Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
Ok, here's a clip.

http://youtu.be/KD2L3wolzpE



WOW! shocked

Yeah but that's only 8 bars! Putting it together is another story!!


This is amazing and makes me so glad I did not pick Maple Leaf to do!
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#2209595 - 01/06/14 05:42 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 250
Hi Everyone,

Hope your recital practicing is going well. I'm sorry to do this, but I'm going to step down from the recital. My piece was Bethena and it's a great piece. I really hope someone else will be able to play it for the recital. I've hardly practiced it over the last month as my mother has been ill. It's not the only piece that has escaped me. I'm having trouble practicing all the pieces for which I have any expectations or hopes with respect to my own playing. This piece happens to be one of those and because of this the practice on it just isn't happening.

I'll definitely still participate in the recital as a listener. smile

Is anyone interested in taking up this piece?

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#2209723 - 01/06/14 07:37 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5532
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
smile for both Dipsy and Valencia. Sorry to hear of the time constraints, and Valencia's mother's illness, for both of you. Hope the move goes well, and your mother's illness abates.

I've played Bethena before, and I'll re-record for this recital unless someone else wants it. I think someone else was interested, but it was taken when they wanted to claim it, so I'll happily let them have it if they speak up!

As for how Original Rags is coming along - laugh . That's the best I can say laugh

It should be fun, though.

Cathy
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#2210291 - 01/07/14 02:53 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1203
Loc: Toronto
Thank goodness for power outages ...

Feeling much better re: progress of late.

In hindsight, I'd have been much better off not starting from the top with my rag. Far greater progress to date would be likely, had I requested some coaching. Instead, I've fumbled along slowly, all the while being side tracked by other works, where reward was coming faster. I was really beginning to get stressed leading up to Christmas with very little progress.

Fast forward through a two day power outage, the Christmas holidays and VIOLA ... I am half way through now. Better yet, parts of it are actually beginning to have a rag flavour.

With two months to go, I'm feeling much better ... contrary to my stress leading up to Christmas.

It will definitely be fun, Cathy and glad to be in the show.
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#2210456 - 01/07/14 05:56 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Valencia]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 761
Took you off the list, Valencia. Will leave it blank for a while to see if someone else takes it and, if not, add jotur.
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Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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#2212646 - 01/11/14 04:45 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Derulux]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Derulux, many thanks again for your recent feedback. Definitely some progress. Probably a hang-over from the period before seeking advice, I went on to have a quite bad spasm of pain for a day or so but got stuck back in pretty quickly with the certain knowledge that continued tension would put rags permanently out of reach. I reflected further on the apparently fixed 4 and 5 youíd spotted. Although unable to sense any rigidity at the time of recording I set about trying to find a deeper level of un-tense, trying to Ďlet goí of the hand in the pitifully short break between the boom and the chuck. I think I had some measure of success by adopting an attitude of wanton neglect towards the fourth finger Ė aided by the fact that fourthy isnít even playing any notes so WTF! It seems to have done the trick insofar as that particular pain hasnít returned. Accuracy improves slowly but Iím still short of even 95%.

Iíd been watching Tom for some flips and cribbed a couple but not at the beginning of that phrase Ė it was probably just a tic in the playing. Iíd still like to be able to throw out some of those LH octave 16s he does but, as you say, itís a technique that would require a visible demo, I think. The few times Iíve tried it I risk more wrist pain.

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#2212660 - 01/11/14 06:38 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3617
Loc: Northern England.
"Accuracy improves slowly but Iím still short of even 95%."

With respect - this is a rag! Not only are wrong notes to be accommodated cheerfully, but - you piano MUST be out of tune . . .
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#2212664 - 01/11/14 06:56 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: peterws]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: peterws
With respect - this is a rag! Not only are wrong notes to be accommodated cheerfully, but - you piano MUST be out of tune . . .


heheh, I've decided to play it on our sad, neglected spinet AP so the tuning should be suitably sub-par.

For your DP you could get hold of this:-


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#2212669 - 01/11/14 07:09 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: dire tonic]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3617
Loc: Northern England.
I can easily knock mine out of tune. Sounds better then, less clinical. So the setting I have specially for rags is now what I use across the board. . . crazy isn`t it? grin
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"I'm playing all the right notes ó but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2212770 - 01/11/14 11:17 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: peterws]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: peterws

With respect - this is a rag! Not only are wrong notes to be accommodated cheerfully, but - you piano MUST be out of tune . . .


lol! I was actually thinking of recording this on the digital, so I could use some weird piano samples smile

My problem right now is that I can't play the third section at the same brisk tempo as the other two. And I wonder if I will be able to play it all from start to end without horrible mistakes (a few small ones are okay, but not too many!). Well there's still time.
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Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2212776 - 01/11/14 11:28 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5532
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Here's a suggestion - I haven't had time to really practice this to my satisfaction, either - how about playing the sections you can play at a brisk tempo at a brisk tempo, and playing the others at whatever tempo you can play them? This is for fun, no? I simplify where I have to, why not play slower where you have to?

A thought -

Cathy
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#2212777 - 01/11/14 11:29 AM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: sinophilia]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3617
Loc: Northern England.
The trick is - Brazen it out! Crash through the mistakes and come out o` the other side still fighting . . . .! Pugilistics on the Piano; What fun! Really looking forward to this recital . . grin
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"I'm playing all the right notes ó but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2212827 - 01/11/14 12:59 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Thank you Cathy... and Peter laugh

This will be fun, indeed!
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Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2212847 - 01/11/14 01:33 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: jotur]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 462
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: jotur
Here's a suggestion - I haven't had time to really practice this to my satisfaction, either - how about playing the sections you can play at a brisk tempo at a brisk tempo, and playing the others at whatever tempo you can play them? This is for fun, no? I simplify where I have to, why not play slower where you have to?

A thought -

Cathy


I am amused by all the recent comments. Because I am having the same problems! The Joplin pieces are very challenging!

I'm already doing "the simplified version" of The Easy Money and have reduced that to just AABBA instead of AABBA-X-CCDD.

I am playing part A with two hands at around 50% speed with a fair number of errors. And B is a two handed struggle - still putting it together.

If B doesn't start coming around soon, my simplified version might turn out to be:

A-A- ... A.

Not quite what I had hoped...

(sigh).


Edited by AZ_Astro (01/11/14 01:34 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2212969 - 01/11/14 04:48 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Whizbang]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1415
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm starting to hate the "Fig Leaf", which means I have reached that critical point in the learning curve where it seems I will never get over the hump. But don't worry, experience shows that things will start to turn around soon.

Its the last two sections that are the problem - I have to play them at an agonizingly slow pace hands together. While I am doing that I am forgetting the first two sections. Hopefully the tempo will pick up soon and I'll recover my spirits!

Sam

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#2213070 - 01/11/14 08:12 PM Re: Joplin-themed ABF recital signup thread [Re: Sam S]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: Sam S
I'm starting to hate the "Fig Leaf", which means I have reached that critical point in the learning curve where it seems I will never get over the hump.


FWIW, I can't get "Rose Leaf" to settle down either!
_________________________
Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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