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#2153494 - 09/19/13 04:24 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
It appears that there's movement...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/greece-ban-golden-dawn-pavlos-fyssas

I'm not too sure if this is a rumour or what it is, but in any case it's an indication that something must be done, for the so many things going wrong right now in Greece!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2153499 - 09/19/13 04:41 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1043
Loc: west coast island, canada
Greetings Nikolas,

I read your posting earlier today. ... and then read further news online about the situation.
I've been attuned from a distance the severity of problems and issues in Greece in recent years.
And the so many constant atrocities in the world at large.
Never ending ....

I sincerely wish you and your children and wife, the best plan of action.
Have you previously thought of making an exit from your homeland and adopt another country?
I know you've lived in England, and perhaps other countries.
Where would you go if you had completely free choice?
I think you have a choice.
And lots of support from the many friends and people who care about you.

It's perhaps difficult to imagine that you are personally threatened by current events ... directly in danger
Do you feel that things are escalating beyond the point of personal safety?

Caring wishes to you and your family,
and to your wonderful country

the little island i live on
has a very generous heart
if you ever find yourself stuck
you'll find a place here !



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#2153511 - 09/19/13 05:23 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
PrestoConFuocco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
It appears that there's movement...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/greece-ban-golden-dawn-pavlos-fyssas

I'm not too sure if this is a rumour or what it is, but in any case it's an indication that something must be done, for the so many things going wrong right now in Greece!


It's good to see that people understand the gravity of the situation, so let's hope the government and the people cooperate to get rid of the golden dawn party once and for all. (This needs to be in the head of the priorities)
_________________________
"If I decide to be an idiot, then I'll be an idiot on my own accord."
- Johann Sebastian Bach.

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#2153558 - 09/19/13 08:18 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10408
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Quote:
How well I remember news of the Allies steadily marching victorious up the length of Italy to defeat the Axis.


… and my father's youth was spent marching with that army. Not something he remembered with great fondness, and getting him to "remember" it at all took some doing.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2153603 - 09/19/13 09:29 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2026
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
It's a wise decision to keep your wife away. I know the feeling of being foreigner during economic crisis. Even in the States around 2009 / 2010, some people with redder necks (is it correct?) did not view foreigners who "took" their jobs did not look kindly at me. It's quite understandable if you are laid off for 18 months or losing their houses, and see this Asian girl doing well enough to buy a grand piano. The saving grace for me was my husband (an American) who had also been laid off for two years. The moment my neighbors realized thàt I am actually supporting a US citizen I had no more eggs thrown at my car. I can only imagine how much more scary it could have been if it were like Greece now. Hang in there. In one way or another you will escape the situation. You have all our prayers. God bless.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum and Grillen and Mozart K 475 Fantasy C minor
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell


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#2153693 - 09/19/13 11:26 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Quite right PD ... those in WWII don’t relish war tales ... and when I think how many of my friends lost their lives! ... I was just too young to join up when the war ended.

But the long and short of the Greek crisis is “filthy lucre” ... it was the Americans who got the world into a frenzied pickle with their over-sale of house mortgages ... and now we all have to pay the piper ... and Greece, for some reason which defeats my non-accountant brain, is presently holding the short straw.

It might be of interest to know that many Italian Prisoners of war (captured in North Africa with Montgomery’s push west from Alamein) were sent to Cape Town and helped build some magnificent local scenic drives ... such as that around Chapman’s Peak ... hairpin curves on a narrow two-lanes with a breathtaking view of the Atlantic.
(Keep your eye on the road!!)

The story goes that the Italians weren’t frontline soldiers, lacking the steely single-mindedness of the Deutche Wehrmacht.

My advice is for Nikolas and family to hang in there ...
if the American economy perks up (and we in South Africa
have been grateful for a recent huge jump in the gold price) ... it might just be a matter of time before things stabilize.

Kind regards, btb

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#2153725 - 09/19/13 12:03 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Thank you everyone! smile

I feel blessed to be here! smile

There are sooo many things to fix, that by just making a semi-political party illegal, doesn't help too much. But in the end we all need to keep calm and not further aggravate the situation, by replying to violence with violence!

As for leaving Greece...

I've lived in London for 4 years and have travelled quite a bit. My wife is in Asia, so certainly it is a possibility and one that I'm constantly exploring. Still I strongly believe that
a. We (Greeks) shouldn't just abandon Greece in such situations (as a precaution somehow). Assuming that we are the sane ones, then how can we leave our country to the thugs (of any direction...).
b. If I am to leave I'm trying very hard to do it in my own terms. We still have all the necessities available and the country is not (yet) in war. Hopefully it won't be. I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials), but I don't think it too probable. Or at least I'm still expanding on that...

For the moment, as I said earlier, I'm keeping a close eye on what's going on...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2153803 - 09/19/13 01:49 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials)

Check out Drexel in Philly. We used to call it the Greek mafia.. entire administration was Greek, and half the professors. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2154109 - 09/19/13 11:19 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2026
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ


What Nikolas told us made me think of this. This is a picture of a German piano called Hupfer. It's preserved in Japan and belong to a high school located in a remote village in Japan. There's a story behind this. During the end of World War Two the piano got two visitors. They were kamikaze pilots. They walked two days to get to the piano. They told the school master that they used to be students at Tokyo music conservatory ( this is like Juliard in Japan) but they have to fly on a kamikaze mission as soon as they go back to the base. They heard that there is a piano and wanted to come to play it before they die. They got a leave and came to the school. They asked for a score and the school master gave them the only score he had, moonlight sonata. After the soldier played all the movements everyone there were touched by emotion. The soldiers said with a clear face "thank you I feel better now I can die". Then children told them "solders I will follow you". The soldiers scolded the kids immediately. "Don't be absurd. You have to rebuild Japan. We are dying for that. We won't win".

I hate wars. It's a complete waste. These young man could have performed in Carnegie hall rather than dying in vain. They knew they have no chance. But they could not escape from the stupid kamikaze thing. It's a small island. If you resist you get killed. Music majors and literary majors were the first ones to be sent to front lines as kamikaze pilots or etc. my apologies for digress. It's just this while thing makes me mad
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum and Grillen and Mozart K 475 Fantasy C minor
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell


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#2154113 - 09/19/13 11:30 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: FarmGirl]
La_plus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
But they could not escape from the stupid kamikaze thing. It's a small island. If you resist you get killed.


I think I would have tried to fly to a peaceful nearby country, land safely and figure out what to do from there.

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#2154189 - 09/20/13 03:45 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Derulux]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1244
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials)

Check out Drexel in Philly. We used to call it the Greek mafia.. entire administration was Greek, and half the professors. smile


There aren't many things I would say are certain, but a U.S. technical default is one of them, it is certain to happen, followed by a major economic depression in the U.S.

Anyone can collect the data, do the math, and chart the curves and equations to see this.

So long term I think Nikolas if he goes to a Western country might not want to choose one definitely headed for a financial and economic catastrophe. Norway, Sweden and Switzerland surely are relatively safer and more secure long term on that basis and as well unlike most European countries never committed the mistake of adopting the Euro currency.

Sweden is on the opposite path from the U.S., Eurozone and Japan, reducing taxes and government spending every year while keeping government debt levels at least relatively stable. And Sweden seems to be pervaded by a face-the-facts mentality and has various safe-haven attributes which let it recover during the Great Depression more rapidly than any other country, and also which enabled its unrivalled recovery from the 2008-09 crisis.

If Nikolas decides that he wants to visit Stockholm for some interviews or to get situated he can stay with me for free!


M.

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#2154886 - 09/21/13 07:01 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
In provisioning for the weekend at our local food store ,
I met an elderly Greek gent called Johannes,
recently flown in from Athens ... he didn’t seem concerned about the unrest earlier mentioned by Nikolas ... however, he did say that Greece is in a financial pickle ... it would appear that Ireland is slowly sorting itself out.

Of special interest for me was hearing that Johannes was born on the somewhat distant Greek island of Rhodes ...
reading up on Internet has revealed an eventful, often violent past spread over 2,500 years and more.

PS I’ve just lunched on a sausage roll, gravy and chips ... and am ready for my afternoon zizz ...
not forgetting a medicinal brandy and soda on the side-table.

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#2155270 - 09/21/13 10:13 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
[...] a. We (Greeks) shouldn't just abandon Greece in such situations (as a precaution somehow). Assuming that we are the sane ones, then how can we leave our country to the thugs (of any direction...). [...]


It would be wonderful, imho, if you Greeks would emulate Iceland. (It would be wonderful if we United Statesians would emulate Iceland, as well! frown ) Here's to the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act. 'Nuff said, I suppose.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2155289 - 09/21/13 11:34 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2353
Loc: NYC
Nikolas, I only now (so late!) clicked on your thread, and I'm very sorry for you and the Greek situation; I don't know what to say. Recently I was in another country in Europe for a music festival and (while I was in rehearsals) there was apparently an unexpected neo-Nazi rally in the park across from my hotel, with police surrounding, tear gas, etc. We have these types in the US as well, but I don't think they assert themselves so boldly.

I wish you and your family the best; please stay safe and if you must, consider leaving. My goodness. My thoughts are with you.
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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#2155324 - 09/22/13 01:22 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Joe thank you very much.

It woulnd't be verbien, would it? (Switzerland)...

The problem exactly, if I may say so (which is sad) is that the problem is not the neo nazi, or the various violent acts. Sure they are hugely ugly, and they should be thrown to jail, but the problem is that the society (if we can call it that) is falling apart rapidly... frown
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2157395 - 09/25/13 11:26 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Michael Sayers]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
I doubt any Golden Dawn members are keen classical pianists who might chance upon these posts.


Unfortunately you will find bad people among the better educated ones the same as you will find good people among the lower educated ones, whatever topic, profession, carreer or hobby they might be in.
This is one of the reasons why Nazis could take over Germany in the last century. Some are loud and visible on the street, and some are quite and active at their bureau. Both are a danger and it needs a lot of courage to stand up against those estrays without civilisation if your neighbourhood wouldn´t publicly be with you anymore. The joint danger unfortunately can only be faced by joint courage. Therefore everybody is encouraged to early join in and never again let space to Nazis, but actively curtail them.
Nikolas, all the best for you and your country.

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#2157654 - 09/25/13 08:18 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
Nikolas, I wish you all the best in this difficult situation. Unless the Germans change their policy, which they show no sign of doing, I cannot see how the economic situation in Greece is going to improve unless and until it leaves the Euro. But even though that might ultimately lead to a happier situation, exit from the euro would cause a severe crisis in the short term. So I do wonder if it might be prudent for you to come to the UK for a few years until things hopefully improve in Greece; we do here have the advantage of not being in the euro, and the economy is actually growing (so they say).

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#2157738 - 09/26/13 12:20 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Small update...

The government is actively looking into the 32 (!!!) crimes that this particular party seems to be connected to. Several parliament members seem to be linked to such crimes.

Of course if this happens, big chances are that we would have to go to elections once more... laugh One happy country once more! grin

It was a bit hellishly last night, since anarchists (by definition leftists here in Greece) rallied on the office of the party... Athens lighted up...

Marco and David: Thank you guys!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2157766 - 09/26/13 01:27 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Well, 8 days later, and so far so good. Of course, the US gov't said the same thing on 9/10/2001. Hope things continue to improve, even if the steps are small..

Edit:

PS: You didn't thank me for the couch offer, which leads me to only one conclusion. When have you seen my couch before? grin


Edited by Derulux (09/26/13 01:29 AM)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2157772 - 09/26/13 01:57 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Yikes!

Indeed I didn't thank you, or Michael, or anyone offering help!

Guys you made my every minute when I'm reading this! I know that I've got friends all across the globe! smile

And the coach can't be THAT bad derulux! grin
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2157779 - 09/26/13 02:35 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Yikes!

Indeed I didn't thank you, or Michael, or anyone offering help!

Guys you made my every minute when I'm reading this! I know that I've got friends all across the globe! smile

And the coach can't be THAT bad derulux! grin

It's from a place called "The Dump"... laugh
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2157974 - 09/26/13 11:36 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I just read on "Inside Higher Education" that the University of Athens and "several other Greek universities" have suspended operations because of the austerity programs taking place in Greece. frown It is sad to think that the cradle of Western civilization cannot support universities any more...
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2158101 - 09/26/13 03:24 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Monica: It's true, but I have some reservations on what exactly is happening... Media are being sketchy (at best) about this...

If I may offer some insights on the Greek universities:

1. Civil workers (college/university professors) can't get fired. however they retain their right to participate in strikes. You can imagine what this means.

2. At the same time, of course, those who work in the public sector and CAN get fired, they get fired every 8 months (otherwise legally they can claim they are necessary to the nation and enter the "not being fired" zone)!!!!

3. In any case the universities are run by political side parties! There are side parties of the big political parties inside the universities, which create some huge problems. By large a lot of the problems (including looting of equipment, BUILDING A BRICK WALL in the doors of professors, and sabotaging elections, etc) are all happening thanks to the existence of such parties inside the university.

4. In addition to the above, you can imagine that a large % of the funds that come for research, never reach their destination.

5. Not to mention that because of the late junda (more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374) the university has total immunity to outside laws, etc. The police actually CANNOT get into the university without license/permission from the top head of each university (which always is met with doubt from anyone working in a university)...

If you were to ask me, I'd say that no university should be shut, but there are so many things that need to change...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2158173 - 09/26/13 06:17 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1244
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Now in the news from Greece it is written that a union of army reservists has demanded resignation of the Greek government:

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/09...-of-government/

I located their website which is here:

http://keed-hellas.blogspot.com/


M.

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#2158271 - 09/26/13 09:12 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Monica: It's true, but I have some reservations on what exactly is happening... Media are being sketchy (at best) about this...

If I may offer some insights on the Greek universities:

1. Civil workers (college/university professors) can't get fired. however they retain their right to participate in strikes. You can imagine what this means.

2. At the same time, of course, those who work in the public sector and CAN get fired, they get fired every 8 months (otherwise legally they can claim they are necessary to the nation and enter the "not being fired" zone)!!!!

3. In any case the universities are run by political side parties! There are side parties of the big political parties inside the universities, which create some huge problems. By large a lot of the problems (including looting of equipment, BUILDING A BRICK WALL in the doors of professors, and sabotaging elections, etc) are all happening thanks to the existence of such parties inside the university.

4. In addition to the above, you can imagine that a large % of the funds that come for research, never reach their destination.

5. Not to mention that because of the late junda (more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374) the university has total immunity to outside laws, etc. The police actually CANNOT get into the university without license/permission from the top head of each university (which always is met with doubt from anyone working in a university)...

If you were to ask me, I'd say that no university should be shut, but there are so many things that need to change...


That's eye-opening, Nikolas, and I promise never to complain about American higher education bureaucracies again.

The system in Greece seems so broke, I don't know what to even suggest as a fix. frown

_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2158468 - 09/27/13 08:16 AM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10408
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Monica,

If you want to read a good, short, generalist introduction to some of the issues in European academies, read

"Technology, Research, and Universities," which is a chapter from The Future of Europe, by Alesina and Giavazzi. I suspect you can grab it online, or from your friendly neighborhood university library.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2158663 - 09/27/13 03:56 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Thanks, P*D, I'll look it up.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2158734 - 09/27/13 06:11 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
SBP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 258
I'd suggest taking an extended vacation to Switzerland, Britain, France, Sweden, Canada, the US, or pretty much any place else. It's better to be safe than sorry with this sort of thing.

It's a damn shame that the birthplace of democracy is now slowly crumbling into an unstable nightmare. And don't get me started on the issue of the Parthenon and all the other architectural treasures of the ancient Greeks 0_o
_________________________
2012 Kawai K3

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#2158762 - 09/27/13 07:10 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: SBP]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1244
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
Originally Posted By: SBP
I'd suggest taking an extended vacation to Switzerland, Britain, France, Sweden, Canada, the US, or pretty much any place else. It's better to be safe than sorry with this sort of thing.

I think more than an extended vacation is needed. Remember that when it became clear Lehman Brothers would be liquidated and have its true market value disclosed it was said that the world financial system was hours from shutdown. Behind the Greek crisis is this issue with all the banks, and also the debts and obligations in most Western countries which these countries' economies are not competitive enough to service. Articles talk about debt to G.D.P (gross domestic product) but this is not the issue - production is one thing, profit is something else, and viable taxation and/or repayment of debt must emerge out of profit at the same time that profit is the avenue of savings and reinvestment to grow an economy.

Nothing against Greece - it is a beautiful country - but I would not want to be living there when the lights go out because there can be no further government bailouts for the power companies.

I'm not saying that will definitely happen, but there are entirely plausible scenarios in which it does happen.

The risks involved with staying in Greece while all of this plays out need to be acknowledged.


M.


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#2159332 - 09/28/13 08:00 PM Re: really worried for Greece right now... [Re: Nikolas]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Keed is bull*ahem*.

And in other news today: http://news.yahoo.com/greek-far-leader-other-legislators-arrested-185146978.html

In a rather superficial way, the above news makes me feel nice...
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