Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Any statistucs how grands help speed a student's progress?

I'm interested...mostly to bolster my argument why I really NEED that Mason & Hamlin AA that I'm buying.

I've had so many people tell me that they do, as if it were fact, but I'm wondering if anyone has actually written on the subject.

Thanks!

I do not have statistic for you, but I can tell you currently in my studio, 4 students has grand piano at home, 3 of them are very good students (top) and 1 is not.
Conclusion, I think attitude will drive you to practice more, instead of having a perfect instrument at home. I think.

I think grand or not really doesn't affect a student's progress.

If you are already very dedicated, a grand piano can certainly amplify the dedication and practicing.

Sorry, I don't think it makes any difference. One of my hardest working students is the one with the 61- key keyboard I posted about in another thread. Some of my worst students are the rich kids with the huge grand pianos who barely practice. {shrugs}

Stevio55, I have read your post, here:

I'm interested...mostly to bolster my argument why I really NEED that Mason & Hamlin AA that I'm buying. smile

I've had so many people tell me that they do, as if it were fact, but I'm wondering if anyone has actually written on the subject.

Thanks!

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It is never the instrument. There is no doubt that a good instrument is important and helpful, but the reality is that it is drive and commitment and determination and allowing absolutely nothing to get in your way of reaching your goal no matter what roadblocks have been put in front of you - that make the difference.

In our case, I think a grand piano really gives my kids more satisfaction and makes the practice more enjoyable, and makes my listening to them more enjoyable. But I don't think they practice more. It probably does help them develop more nuanced playing, though.

But I think a grand piano is not as important as a student's will to learn, effective practice, a good teacher, a supportive family, a learning-oriented community, opportunities for public performance, etc, etc. It's a good thing to have, of course.

Any study on the effect of a grand piano will need to take into consideration all the other factors related to why one person has a grand piano and another doesn't. Socioeconomic status, a focus on music study, a focus on learning, a focus on developing a child's potential, other piano players in the house, etc., etc., could all be reasons why a parent buys a grand piano for a child. And these factors could all contribute to the outcome of a child's learning, and having a grand piano might just be incidental in some cases.

I don't have any statistics, perhaps one of the dealers in the Piano Forum has something? Or perhaps it hasn't been really studied that much.

I know that if I had a nice piano growing up, I would have practiced a lot more. Many times I would stomp away from our spinet in frustration. It was truly an awful instrument that was never in tune. Any chance I had to play a grand (and "any chance" means they didn't lock it up) I was on it.

Since I've been able to purchase nicer pianos as an adult, my progress had been much better and more consistent. Even nice uprights will still not respond as well as a nice grand, and it's that response that allows you to be more expressive. As long as you keep your piano in good repair, have it tuned regularly and keep it regulated, then you will be very happy with your purchase. No regrets!!

Your thread topic should have read "Any statistics on how uprights/keyboards slow student progress."

So many people are used to using uprights and keyboards that they forget that the standard is the grand, and moving away from the grand is a compromise. Uprights can be excellent, but never quite make it to the standard of the grand. Keyboards are a very distant 3rd.

PS As a long time teacher, fully certified, I here-by grant you dispensation to purchase that Mason AA. Go for it.

When I was a student, I practiced on a tiny, old upright. I knew this kid who practiced on a baby grand. This kid was also much better than me. However, to be fair, he was better before he got the grand...

That said, if you physically have enough money for a grand, you should get it. Just think of all the starving piano teachers who can't afford one for themselves

I offer my own suggestion for the proper thread topic, since we've opened the door to changing it.

"Any statistics on what slows student progress?"

And since I asked it, I might as well answer.

Lack of practice, 89%
Bad teaching, 10%
Lack of grand piano, 1%

By all means, if you can afford it buy a grand. I would, in a heartbeat, and piano isn't even my primary instrument.

My thoughts:

Lack of practice, 45%
Bad teaching, 45%
Lack of grand piano, 10%

Okay, I was just starting my morning coffee and my right brain wasn't fully engaged! Don't pick on us sleepy heads.

Can we change the top to "lack of proper practice"? And unfortunately, with a diligent student, "teaching" will impact "practice" " if that hasn't been guided (or misguided).

And I agree with John, because practising the wrong(ly) taught/ untaught thing can be a disaster.

So the another 10% is how good they are in math?

Nowadays everyone is trying to be politically correct and don't mention the student's natural talent (or the lack of it). That counts at least 10%, right?

No, and not for "political correctness" (which is also NOT what questions of talent are about, when considering how to teach). What is being figured out is what can be done for maximum growth.

Supposing we take your "talent" factor. Student A has "huge talent". If he is taught properly, practices properly, and has a decent instrument, then he will advance faster than if any or all of these factors are absent: good teaching - good practising or practising period - good instrument. So you compare Student A to Student A. Not Student A against students B and C.

The same will be true of a student who has "little talent", who has a good ear but poor coordination, excellent coordination but something else is missing.

But I agree.

The main thing that is necessary is student/teacher chemistry.

I can' teach without a student who wants to learn - and that means work.

The student is not going to get very far without me (or another good teacher).

And if the instrument we use for lessons has almost nothing to do with the hunk of junk at home, things are not going to work very well.

Hi, along the same lines, any thoughts if a grand is recommended (or required) after a certain level of study or at a certain level of proficiency?

I have heard, for example, that talented students who don't have a grand to practice with are at a disadvantage when they start entering piano competitions, etc. If true, it implies that after a certain point a grand almost becomes a requirement.

I guess there are some repertoire which require a grand (e.g., requiring the una corda or sostenuto pedal, or very fast repeats of the same notes) -- but my question is more generic.

On the flip side, am I right to assume a student with a good upright will be fine even at the highest levels of RCM or ABRSM diploma levels?

I think a student at any level should have as much piano as they can afford to have. Having a good grand as a beginner is very inspiring and having one as an intermediate or advanced pianist will reduce frustration and allow them to play to their maximum capability. Piano is hard enough, we don't need to throw up roadblocks for them.

Just think of those Chinese kids who enter professional studies at the age of 10 or 12, I doubt many of them have grand pianos at home. It might be interesting to find out what piano Lang Lang practiced on when he was a kid. I think a better piano is always better and a child is blessed if his/her parents have the means to provide an instrument that best brings out the child's abilities. But I think it's far from "required".

Stevio55,

Get that piano! I got a grand for my daughter last year. Based on a sample size of 14 months, sampled almost daily, I would say she has improved 7.8%, with CI of +/- 7.6%.

My children's teacher had asked that we acquire a grand piano in order to maintain continuous progress.

As a parent, I have asked the off-topic question of how a grand may or may not help my children. If we have a good upright that claims to have good "long grand-like" keys, do we really need a grand piano?

This struggle went on for months until one of my children surprised us at a recital. Months before the recital, the teacher assigned a classical piece that required softer light touches conveying a pastoral scene of a peaceful village. Strangely, practice at home always sounded like an elephant trampling every hut in the village into splinters. My poor kids were trying but it was impossible to reconcile what I heard from our upright with the teacher's requirement! Being a non-player, all that I could do was to shake my head and kept my mouth shut.

On the day of our recital, my kid got on the grand piano and did a complete 180-degree. The piece was played with wonderful dynamics, soft touches and a flighty quality exactly as the teacher wanted. The elephant became a butterfly. My jaw dropped and my wife stared at me asking how the hack was that possible? Practice at home was two-hours a day six days a week and time spent at teacher's house was only forty-five minutes; how was it possible for a kid to change his playing overnight?

After an in-depth chat at home, we learned that he had adapted whatever was on the upright at home to the grand at the recital. While he practiced to the limit (touch and dynamics) of the upright, his head was keying on the quality required by his teacher. He said it would have been a lot easier if we had a grand but he made do as best he could.

So, we have learned to listen carefully to what our students (kids) are telling us and trying to understand the challenges they face when practicing. Kids often say very little and just live with limitations without knowing it is something worth discussing.

We think we can insist on getting by with our upright but we are now shopping for a grand.