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Hello Teachers, I am a Piano Technician who has given advanced piano tuning courses over the internet using my webcam. I was so pleased with the result that I began to search the internet for piano teachers who give piano lessons over the internet using their webcams. Are they any of you out there? How do you advertise? Tell us more. Would any of you be interested in a website that would market to students looking for webcam instruction and provide technical support to allow you to find and teach music over the internet? I am currently developing a website to do just that. It would list profiles of teachers, their availability and their prices. Students would be able to browse teachers and select lesson times and pay for lessons. Students and teachers would then receive an email link near the lesson time, click it, and then be hooked up through their webcams. Besides the obvious adbvantage of not having to travel and lose time in your car (if you currently travel to people's homes), there is also the added advantage that you will now be able to teach during virtually any hours of the day that you care to. Somewhere in the world, kids are getting out of school at exactly the same time that you want to teach. I will be beta testing this service very soon. If you would like to take part in this and be listed on the website for free, please go to http://oncodi.launchrock.com to sign up. Thanks very much and I am looking forward to reading all your stories of webcam teaching.
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I think the fundamental problem for physical skill teaching on webcam is that you are unable to have physical interaction with your students.
And the webcam gives the students a feeling of "unprofessional" or "casual" because you are looking into a screen, just like a TV.
So yes the idea is good but it will take a long while for you to get serious students.
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Yes, there are some problems but there are also many pluses:
- Flexible teaching times - Online music resources - No travelling - No transportation expenses - No wasted travel time for no shows - Convenience
And with a website that caters to online teachers: - Free marketing - Foreign currency handling - Technical support
There are also other pitfalls (privacy, security, etc) that a good website would address.
Currently there is no website (that I could find) that has these functions. Takelessons.com is too vague. In fact, there is no link that shows they even offer this service. Search "online music lesson takelessons" on YouTube and you will see their video. I found it disturbing, especially when the teacher and the kid do this high five to the screen.
My vision is to portray the service for what it is; the best option for when in-person lessons are not convenient. People are not stupid. They are not going to think that lessons with a great, reasonably priced teacher who comes to your home, is not as good as an online webcam lesson.
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I've been following this with interest in both forums. I have taught via the Net though since it involved music theory, Skype wasn't needed. But I have also worked with teachers as a student over Skype. There are pros and cons, as everyone says. Taking the ideas presented one by one: Registering with a site dedicated to Skype lessons so that students can find teachers: I googled "piano lesson skype" and had 34,000 hits - 70% of the first page was by teachers advertising they do this, and the remain three were discussions of the idea. So if a teacher has a Web-site and uses keywords like "Skype lesson", they should be findable. Of course a well designed site might have SEO to bring it to the top of the list, thus making a teacher visible among these 30,000 people. So Mark's site might bring you to the top of the list. I.e. marketing. Next: the actual interaction bringing student and teacher together. Students would be able to browse teachers and select lesson times and pay for lessons. Students and teachers would then receive an email link near the lesson time, click it, and then be hooked up through their webcams. I may be reading this wrong. The way I'm reading it, the student looks at the list of teachers and their (probably brief) descriptions. The teachers will have indicated free time slots, and the student chooses one of these. The teacher gets informed that he will be teaching a student on a given day and time. The student has made all the decisions. Is this a correct picture? In first-time lessons, there has to be some dialogue between teacher and student to establish what the goals are. The teacher has to have a say on whether he wants to teach this student (compatible) and may also want the student to prepare a certain way before the first lesson. The idea of a student selecting a teacher and time like a pizza with toppings seems to be missing a step. and teachers would then receive an email link near the lesson time How near the lesson time? Say the student has chosen a 5:00 time slot for Thursday, does the teacher get an e-mail at 3:00 Thursday - Thursday morning - or the day before (Wednesday)? If an hour before the chosen lesson time, what if he/she is teaching and not able to check e-mails? If it is the way I imagine, then it is too automatic, and doesn't give the teacher much control. I am familiar with similar kinds of systems in my work, and I stay away from them because the planning/consultation stage with a customer is missing which would compromise the quality of my work. It would also impact on my quality of life since I would lose control of my time. I accept work as it comes in, but I have some control over how I plan my time around it. So my main thought is that the teacher offering the service has to have more control at the arranging stage. What do the teachers here think? Next: (from site) or set-up complicated software. (here)... click it, and then be hooked up through their webcams. (here) .... - Technical support I'm trying to picture this part better. In on-line "live" lessons, both I and my teacher must have the equipment (cameras with sound) and there is software belonging to our respective equipment which we have to deal with ourselves. In my case, the sound from my webcam was horrid, so I had to reconfigure it so that sound comes from a microphone, video comes from the camera. This had to be worked out internally. With both teachers, there was a pre-lesson period where we just tried out the system. With the first, it was a learning period for me to get used to it. The situation with webcam and microphone had to be done trial and error, because I couldn't anticipate who poor the webcam's sound would come across. Other things that had to be worked out were camera angle so the teacher could see what s/he wanted to see, and an echo which turned out to be a matter of microphone placement. For the actual connection, I've always used Skype and it is pretty straightforward. But Skype isn't the only system around. Do you use a different system? It sounds like you have set up something to be automatic so that the connection happens ... more instantly than what is usual at present where the teacher dials the student? Something superior to Skype, which does have its hangups? Technical support: If something goes wrong during the call? Troubleshooting common problems? Solving such things as my camera-sound scenario? What is involved here. - Foreign currency handling Are you acting as a kind of banking system? So you will get a teacher in Germany where the currency is Euros, and a student in Hong Kong, where the currency is HK dollars, and the payment goes through you and you turn that money into the correct currency and pass it on to the teacher? Is this what you mean?
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So my main thought is that the teacher offering the service has to have more control at the arranging stage. What do the teachers here think? I can't say I speak for other teachers, but I do think this webcam model undermines the authority of teachers. As I mentioned previously about the feeling of "unprofessional" and "casual", plus the sole control students have in choosing teachers, will make a nightmare for the teachers. Does the teach has any say of the student's choice? I think technically it can be done, just need a two-way confirmation mechanism and/or a paid preview lesson. Still it gives the students the feeling that they are picking groceries in supermarket. Will you be ok with webcam tennis class? soccer class? No? Then why it's different from piano lessons?
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Keystring brings up a number of interesting questions.
Is this a Skype based model, or is a different software involved?
Personally, I would not accept any student 'sight unseen' who simply picked me out from a list of available teachers for a given time slot.
My Skype students find me through my website, and only book lessons, after at least a few emails back and forth, where I enquire about their current level/future goals etc., and they get to find out exactly what I am able to offer them.
Following on from that, we arrange a mutually convenient time to carry out a brief test call, to ensure that everything is working well at both ends.
Foreign currency is not a problem, as PayPal handles that. For students in my own country, payment is generally by bank transfer.
I really don't see what the site you propose could do for me, over and above what I already have in place. Would I be correct in assuming that your service would involve a subscription of some kind?
Rob
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Jesus, just hire a good local piano teacher. There are ALWAYS tons of them. How can you POSSIBLY teach piano this way????????? Absolutely ridiculous!
You cannot think you can teach about sound and touch through webcam.
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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That's fine for those who live in areas where teachers are plentiful.
Some of my students live in isolated areas where there is no teacher within 100 miles. ( Australia is a large country).
One lived in the mountains of Japan, again, totally isolated.
Some people are housebound, and cannot get a teacher to come to them.
I have had some from the US who like to have lessons late in their evening, when it is my mid morning here.
One size doesn't fit all.
Rob
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I guess so. Although I do know people who travel that distance twice a month for lessons.
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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Jesus, just hire a good local piano teacher. There are ALWAYS tons of them. There are tons of local piano teachers. There may not be tons of good ones. What if a student had a choice between a mediocre or even poor local teacher, and a fantastic teacher on Skype? And maybe your skype session can be streamed to your harddrive, and you can review it every day until the next lesson, each time picking up a few more things the teacher said that went past you in the heat of the moment?
gotta go practice
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Gradually over the last 2 years my jazz piano teaching practice has switched to about 70% skype. Teaching via skype is so fantastic it gives me chills. Every aspect of playing -touch, tone, improvisation, theory, et. al, can easily be conveyed and effectively taught via this medium. I worked with a nutty guy from New Dehli for one year, and then he came to NYC to visit. When he sat down to play, it was clear that he had come as far in that one year as anyone ever had come from live lessons.
There is an aspect of live interaction, naturally, that doesn't come over the computer (some of the folks are taller or smellier than I thought), but what is missed is minimal. I just got off a skype lesson with a great guy in Wales, explaining to him the construction of a certain type of esoteric jazz voicing. There is NO WAY this guy could learn this from a teacher anywhere near him. Ditto for delighted students in Malta, Saudi Arabia, Alaska, Denmark, Uraguay, Brazil, the Ukraine, and on and on. Some of these students have started a jazz teaching practice of their own in their countries, being the first to do so.
Skype teaching is so effective that half of my students in NYC now work with me via skype. I live on 52nd St., one guy on 34th St. insists on doing his lessons only on skype. Once they try it once, they are hooked.
I feel privileged to be living at this time and place where technology has made what we do for a living so communicative on a scale I never would have dreamed possible.
Dave Frank
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Jesus, just hire a good local piano teacher. There are ALWAYS tons of them. How can you POSSIBLY teach piano this way????????? Absolutely ridiculous!
You cannot think you can teach about sound and touch through webcam. Wish it was that easy, but not all have "good local" piano teachers in their neck of the woods.
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Mark, I am intrigued about the 'advanced piano tuning courses' you have given over the internet, One of the biggest downsides I have experienced, is the occasional wavering of pitch in Skype lessons.
Do you transmit tones, or a visual image of some kind of digital tuning device?
Rob
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So my main thought is that the teacher offering the service has to have more control at the arranging stage. What do the teachers here think? I can't say I speak for other teachers, but I do think this webcam model undermines the authority of teachers. As I mentioned previously about the feeling of "unprofessional" and "casual", plus the sole control students have in choosing teachers, will make a nightmare for the teachers. Does the teach has any say of the student's choice? I think technically it can be done, just need a two-way confirmation mechanism and/or a paid preview lesson. Still it gives the students the feeling that they are picking groceries in supermarket. Will you be ok with webcam tennis class? soccer class? No? Then why it's different from piano lessons? Hi Alan, I apologize but I didn't understand the meaning of your post. How is a teacher's authority undermined? Because a student will drop you if they don't like what you are saying? What would stop them from doing so if you were local? Teachers' authority is a much bigger issue, and local versus remote lessons is not a factor, IMHO. Unprofessional and casual is a function of the organization and expectations of the teacher. How does local present a more organized impression with higher standards? BTW, why do you think casual is bad? Does the teacher have any say in the student's choice? Why do you think a teacher should have a say in who a student chooses, unless they ask you? The only say you have is whether or not you want to teach them. Tennis? Soccer? Isn't this comparing an independent performance activity with a team activity?
Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 09/21/13 02:22 PM.
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Mark, I am intrigued about the 'advanced piano tuning courses' you have given over the internet, One of the biggest downsides I have experienced, is the occasional wavering of pitch in Skype lessons.
Do you transmit tones, or a visual image of some kind of digital tuning device? Hi Rob, I teach advanced aural tuning techniques for beginners. Students must be accomplished musicians to ensure a high level of success. I've been doing this for eight years and have developed a technique that is easy to learn and students (who are accomplished musicians) get fast results. Notice I mention accomplished musicians twice. I mean musicians who have a varied background and make a living from many areas of performing music. In general, music teachers who just teach music, do not do well in the course because piano tuning demands a ductility of thinking that career music teachers who develop or follow a standard method, have not developed. Typical musical skills that predict success in the courses, are: Jazz improvisation Orchestral composition and arranging Computers and midi Electronic music and synthesizer programming Sound engineering Luthier Other beneficial skills: Mechanical ability Wood working English We don't use computers or Electronic Tuning Devices (ETDs) to determine proper pitch. I only teach aural tuning techniques. We do use ETDs to test our aural tunings, but the ETD will be on the student's side, although one on my side is appropriate for tersting unisons and stability. Tests show a flattening of 7 cents from broadcaster to receiver in Google Hangout. An RPT exam would still give consistent results because the testing procedure (except for the initial A440) calculates an average offset and subtracts that from the actual pitch measurement. I.e. a perfect tuning, and a perfect tuning that is 7 cents flat across the board, would both score 100%.
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That was way more info than I asked for, but thanks Mark
Rob
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Jesus, just hire a good local piano teacher. There are ALWAYS tons of them. There are tons of local piano teachers. There may not be tons of good ones. What if a student had a choice between a mediocre or even poor local teacher, and a fantastic teacher on Skype? And maybe your skype session can be streamed to your harddrive, and you can review it every day until the next lesson, each time picking up a few more things the teacher said that went past you in the heat of the moment? No matter how fantastic the teacher is, teaching piano through Skype is and will always remains at a "group class lecturer" level.
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No matter how fantastic the teacher is, teaching piano through Skype is and will always remains at a "group class lecturer" level.
Alan, I've been enjoying your posts, and this is the first one that I have to disagree with, and here's why. Teaching first of all is a thought-through activity. The teacher uses the things at his disposal: books, scores, an instrument, his knowledge, the student - and he decides what he will teach, and how he will teach it, using what he has available. A book, score, location, or equipment do not do the teaching. What you will do with what you have available will determine what kind of lesson it will be. An excellent and resourceful teacher can do a lot even in that medium. Of course working with someone in person is preferable, especially for the physical side of teaching. But if a student cannot access any teacher, or cannot access that teacher, then the Internet can give possibilities. When you write "group class lecturer", are you thinking of these generic prerecorded lessons that are found everywhere on the Net? Yes, these are addressed to a group, generic, so they are that. I have also watched sample Skype lessons where a student plays, and the teacher says "no - this part over here would sound better this way", demonstrates, student copies, teacher says "yes, that's it" - or maybe demonstrates a better way physically to do some passage. I can't see this for beginners. But on the other hand, I think a lot of in-person lessons do go that way. It is what you do with the tools you have available. There can be one-on-one where you work out something, teach something - the student works through whatever that is later in his or her own practising, and has the advantage of reviewing the lesson if it has also been recorded. (Again, some in-studio teachers now record lessons for students to review). The student can also create sound files, video clips that can be shared via a Youtube private setting - for either to see where the student is, for teacher feedback. Relevant music theory can be taught via written material, homework etc. using e-mail, Dropbox and similar. It can be quite DEEP, and nothing like a general lecture. However, if I were looking for a teacher with whom to study via Skype, I probably would not go to a site featuring such teachers as a group, but rather find such teachers via how they present themselves otherwise.
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So my main thought is that the teacher offering the service has to have more control at the arranging stage. What do the teachers here think? I can't say I speak for other teachers, but I do think this webcam model undermines the authority of teachers. As I mentioned previously about the feeling of "unprofessional" and "casual", plus the sole control students have in choosing teachers, will make a nightmare for the teachers. Does the teach has any say of the student's choice? .... Hi Alan, I apologize but I didn't understand the meaning of your post. How is a teacher's authority undermined? Because a student will drop you if they don't like what you are saying? ... Mark, in your quote, my post is included. The specific way that an imbalance has been created in your model, is that the student determines which teacher he will study with, and when, but the teacher does not determine whether he wants to work with that student. It is a longterm relationship, and in this relationship the teacher has to act as a guide, with the student following that guidance. Here the student is determining everything, and that can set up a relationship. Secondly, there is usually some kind of first dialogue where it is established what the student wants to learn, what the student's background is, what the teacher's goals and expectations are - and this sets up things before a lesson even starts. In Skype it's trickier: you want to get things going right off the bat, and have it go smoothly, because of the nature of the medium. The teacher has to be able to set things up, and also determine whether he wants to take on that particular student.
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No matter how fantastic the teacher is, teaching piano through Skype is and will always remains at a "group class lecturer" level.
I shall pass those words of wisdom on to the twins I teach over Skype, who just last week, took first place, and a highly commended at their school eisteddfod
Rob
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