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#2155909 - 09/23/13 01:15 AM Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear)
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ndHYBEPsw

I played this in the Southeastern Piano Festival's competition; it was a good experience, and this work earned me the award for best solo performance in the competition.
I had a very valuable conversation with Professor Babayan, (a judge, and of course, incredible pianist) after my performance.

There is a link to an unlisted performance of Beethoven's 4th concerto from that competition in the video information. I was planning on playing Rach 3 at the competition, but switched at the last minute as the Rachmaninov was, at the time, quite new.

P.S. Jason, I tried to lighten up contrapunctus 9 a bit-- it's actually a really difficult piece for me, but I'll keep working on it smile
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2155927 - 09/23/13 02:08 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1728
Loc: Helsinki, finland
Absolutely outstanding, Rachel! Beautiful, sustained sound in the first contrapunctus, and each voice is profiled very well. Wonderful articulation in the contrapunctus 9 - not an easy piece at all! Congratulations on the competition!
_________________________
http://www.martinmalmgren.com/

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#2155950 - 09/23/13 03:29 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Urgh. Talent. Well, sure, you can articulate well and the phrasing is sublime, you might be far too good for your age and winning competitions, but my feelings of envy and deep seated inferiority have reserves the likes of which you'll never be forced to attain, so who's the real winner? Um...really, there's modesty and then there's taking the p*ss; "I tried to lighten up contrapunctus 9 a bit-- it's actually a really difficult piece for me, but I'll keep working on it" urgh...just...urgh....you're disgustingly good; deal with it laugh
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2156058 - 09/23/13 09:44 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: FSO]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Oh dear... well, actually I have quite a few technical issues with contrapunctus 9. It takes a lot of finger independence to be able to voice the trills the way I want, and I'm not quite there yet. I was considering just publishing the two fugues together from the winners' concert but the opening trill bothers me quite a bit! Besides that, it is a probably a better performance, but it has some 'bugs' I'd like to work out.
(winners' concert- note the abysmal first trill of no. 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NyyW0R4aE4


Edited by Piano Person16 (09/23/13 01:07 PM)
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2156060 - 09/23/13 09:51 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Yes yes, I quite noticed that trill.... laugh I didn't say you were Gouldian, I didn't even say you were perfect, it's just....some of us have so far to go; you appear to already be there, looking for a parking space...
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2156112 - 09/23/13 11:37 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
La_plus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 32
This was good. Work on those faces though, for your own benefit.

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#2156216 - 09/23/13 02:45 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: La_plus]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2451
Bravo! Very good.

But...

Originally Posted By: La_plus
...Work on those faces though, for your own benefit.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2156362 - 09/23/13 06:39 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3752
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Rachel,

Fantastic playing! Here are some thoughts, for what they're worth:

#9: I actually think you nailed it. I'm sure you think there's room for improvement of details, but the big picture is there, and it's *very* compelling. You're in touch with the right cosmic ticking. Keep doing what you're doing.

#1: The playing is beautiful, but we may just have a difference of interpretation. You make this fugue into something very drawn-out, almost painful. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I've always heard it as much more quiet and reserved. Almost expressionless, like a statue, feeling all the cosmic emotions you can imagine, but mostly feeling them internally, and not emoting them so strongly. I'd love to hear what you sound like playing this at pp to p throughout, just as a fun experiment.


-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2156457 - 09/23/13 09:18 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Thanks for posting these performances; they are very good!!

I'm friends with a few people that have gone to SEPF, including this past summer.

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#2156461 - 09/23/13 09:25 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Orange Soda King]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Me too smile smile
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2156465 - 09/23/13 09:28 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7571
Loc: New York City
By the way, PianoPerson, with the repertoire list in your signature, it seems you'd barely have time to just run through all your pieces, even if you had 5 hours to practice. What's up with that?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2156475 - 09/23/13 09:34 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Polyphonist]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Ha. I don't work on everything every day! Some of the repertoire, I learned in the summer and have "put away" until a time in the near future when I will begin reviving for practice recital or competition. As I am competing and auditioning this year, there are a number of requirements, and those don't always match, so there's a lot of rep!

I actually took extra courses to finish high school early, so I've already graduated (I'm 16) and now spend pretty much all day practicing (usually between 9-12 hours).
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2156481 - 09/23/13 09:38 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7571
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano Person16
Ha. I don't work on everything every day! Some of the repertoire, I learned in the summer and have "put away" until a time in the near future when I will begin reviving for practice recital or competition. As I am competing and auditioning this year, there are a number of requirements, and those don't always match, so there's a lot of rep!

I actually took extra courses to finish high school early, so I've already graduated (I'm 16) and now spend pretty much all day practicing (usually between 9-12 hours).

I was going on the assumption that the pieces listed were just the ones you're currently working on, as with most similar signatures. smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2156485 - 09/23/13 09:42 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Polyphonist]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Everything gets attacked at least once a week, but momentary shifts in focus depend on what I am performing that week. I guess you can think of it more as what is in my hands at the moment. There isn't really anything in my repertoire (as listed) that wouldn't be prepared for performance given a week's notice.

I concur that it is too much, but thank heavens it's all good music smile
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2156488 - 09/23/13 09:45 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7571
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano Person16
Everything gets attacked at least once a week, but momentary shifts in focus depend on what I am performing that week. I guess you can think of it more as what is in my hands at the moment. There isn't really anything in my repertoire (as listed) that wouldn't be prepared for performance given a week's notice.

I concur that it is too much, but thank heavens it's all good music smile

It's not all good music. Those Bach songs are just garbage. So boring.

(Joking, of course. laugh )
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2156492 - 09/23/13 09:47 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Polyphonist]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Quote:

It's not all good music. Those Bach songs are just garbage. So boring.


Haha. I think that's my fault, not Bach's!


Edited by Piano Person16 (09/23/13 09:49 PM)
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2156496 - 09/23/13 09:51 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7571
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano Person16
Quote:

It's not all good music. Those Bach songs are just garbage. So boring.


Haha. I think that's my fault, not Bach's!

No, I was joking. Sorry about that. Of course I understand the work is one of the major cornerstones of the piano repertoire, and every moment of it is genius. I hoped my facetious use of the word "song" would convey this. ha

You play them quite well. Just cut the dramatic facial expressions. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2160288 - 10/01/13 01:57 AM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
boo1234 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 508
Beautiful playing, but you look like a goldfish being stabbed multiple times.

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#2160632 - 10/01/13 10:27 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Excellent job. Art, is quite a difficult work. Will you be playing it in it's entirety?
I must admit, for as much as I enjoyed your performance I had to stop watching and just listen, because I couldn't take any more of the facial stuff going on (whatever that was).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2160639 - 10/01/13 10:45 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6098
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I agree with what most members here have said - excellent performance... but avoid the grimaces if possible, even if I don't doubt they are "real" and that you feel what you are trying to express.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2160652 - 10/01/13 11:12 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: stores]
Piano Person16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 75
Haha. I try to distract myself from the fact that there is an audience by performing exactly as I practice--you should all count yourself lucky I wasn't nervous enough to be singing/humming rhythmically along. That has happened on occasion. smile
I don't like to dedicate myself to a complete set unless it is absolutely sacrilegious to do otherwise. I am playing a few others this year (4, 14, etc...) but there are a couple that don't interest me as much. So we'll see!
My bio lists me as "specializing" in Bach, and that's only semi-accurate; I play more Bach than most other people, and I'm quite comfortable with it. Really I just love anything with strong counterpoint, so I'm actually equally confident in composers like Rachmaninov (although my highly polyphonic take on his music might be a bit controversial). Anyway, Art of the Fugue seems a natural fit for me...
_________________________
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)

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#2160843 - 10/02/13 01:02 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: ChopinAddict]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2451
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I agree with what most members here have said - excellent performance... but avoid the grimaces if possible, even if I don't doubt they are "real" and that you feel what you are trying to express.


Well, this was what I said in my post too and it is unfortunate that this seems to get more attention than your playing. It is unfortunately a negative aspect that diminishes the value of your performance.

You should really pay attention to those criticisms about your facial expressions and MUST take necessary precautions not to repeat them in your future performances.

Of course it is up to you whether to take notice or not.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2160847 - 10/02/13 01:07 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Hakki]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3752
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Hakki
You should really pay attention to those criticisms about your facial expressions and MUST take necessary precautions not to repeat them in your future performances.

Why? Why "MUST"? Is there evidence that facial expressions are detrimental to a career? Many pianists had them in the recent Van Cliburn competition. These kinds of expressions seem to be an accepted (if, fortunately, optional) component of professional playing.

-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2160850 - 10/02/13 01:18 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: beet31425]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2451
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Hakki
You should really pay attention to those criticisms about your facial expressions and MUST take necessary precautions not to repeat them in your future performances.

Why? Why "MUST"? Is there evidence that facial expressions are detrimental to a career? Many pianists had them in the recent Van Cliburn competition. These kinds of expressions seem to be an accepted (if, fortunately, optional) component of professional playing.

-Jason


No, not THESE kind of facial expressions. Otherwise we wouldn't have reacted.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2160860 - 10/02/13 01:43 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Hakki]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3752
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Hakki
No, not THESE kind of facial expressions. Otherwise we wouldn't have reacted.

I don't buy that "otherwise" logic, because my thesis is that, for whatever reason, our standards for facial expressions are different from professionals'. For example, extreme facial expressions seem not to have hurt the career of Alessandro Deljavan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br7_lTJQVsg

I just don't think that, at the professional level, people care that much. I could be wrong; I'm basing my arguments on what I see in competitions.

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2160866 - 10/02/13 01:57 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: beet31425]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2451
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Hakki
No, not THESE kind of facial expressions. Otherwise we wouldn't have reacted.

I don't buy that "otherwise" logic, because my thesis is that, for whatever reason, our standards for facial expressions are different from professionals'. For example, extreme facial expressions seem not to have hurt the career of Alessandro Deljavan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br7_lTJQVsg

I just don't think that, at the professional level, people care that much. I could be wrong; I'm basing my arguments on what I see in competitions.

-J


You ARE wrong.

I don't object to any of Deljavan's facial expressions. And most people do not find it distractive as well. Why? Well, we can't know for sure and I am not here to discuss that.

BUT, here, many of us are distracted by OP's facial expressions. Hence, she SHOULD take notice of that.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2160870 - 10/02/13 02:14 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3752
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Well Hakki, we disagree, and we'll both have to just resist the call of duty...

Rachel: It looks like there's universal consensus that this is great playing, universal consensus that the facial expressions are too much, and perhaps a consensus-- though I dissent-- on how important it is to change them.

-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2160873 - 10/02/13 02:23 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: beet31425]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2451
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Well Hakki, we disagree, and we'll both have to just resist the call of duty...



Jason, that was good, I can't stop laughing. Thanks!!
laugh laugh laugh
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2160887 - 10/02/13 03:08 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6274
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Rachel - Beautiful playing indeed !! thumb

Regarding the facial expressions...they tend to focus attention on YOU as opposed to the music....and therefore are a distraction that can undermine the effectiveness of your overall performance.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2160889 - 10/02/13 03:10 PM Re: Bach Art of the Fugue (this time the thread won't disappear) [Re: Piano Person16]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
If you can spare the attention to keep control of your face you'll be paying less attention to the music you're trying to create. Controlling facial expressions falls short of pathetically unimportant compared to that...unless, of course, you disagree...
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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