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#2155991 - 09/23/13 06:37 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Joe, yes I agree but what about improvements to a new piano? Signor Fabbrini's Steinway D's for instance.

What if someone were to put additional braces in the frame like those in the Fazioli 278 perhaps in an attempt to reduce the "saturation" effects at fff/ffff that Kalee reported when comparing a Hamburg with a Steingraeber?


Edited by Withindale (09/23/13 04:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Editing
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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2156651 - 09/24/13 05:05 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
joe80 Offline
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Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1094
Now, could someone tell me what exactly what Signor Fabbrini does to his Steinways? I think they are made like that in the Hamburg factory for him, aren't they? Also they say Steinway/Fabbrini on the side so they are double named pianos.

I suppose the question is really a philosophical one - what makes a Steinway a Steinway? What makes a New York or a Hamburg Steinway? What makes an 1890 Steinway, a 1950 Steinway, a 2013 Steinway? What are the differences? Should we try to make an 1890 Steinway into a 2013 Steinway? etc etc etc......

For the performing pianist, in the concert venue, the important question is 'Will this piano do exactly what I want it to?' or 'Can I do exactly what I want to, on this piano?'

For other types of application - when you want a window into the past for instance, it's more important to try to retain the original design of the instruments so that they sound as close as possible to when they were new. For others, it's important to have the best quality of instrument and the question of whether it's vintage or not is less important.

I guess you could say that Fabbrini and other people who are changing things are making modified Steinways. I know some people change the bracings on the soundboards to improve tone etc. Are these pianos still Steinways? Well, I guess they are certainly MAINLY Steinways, but what matters mostly is how the pianos sound.

From Steinway Hall's point of view, they wouldn't offer a modified Steinway (that wasn't modified BY Steinways I mean...) because they want to sell "100 percent Steinway". Perhaps there's a practical point there - it's easier for them to guarantee work that is 100 percent their own, but then, other firms outsource their rebuilding....

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#2156787 - 09/24/13 11:23 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3447
Loc: US
No, I don't think the Hamburg factory customizes for Fabbrini. I believe he takes Hamburg Steinways from the factory and customizes them in his own shop and puts his name prominently on the piano.

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#2157322 - 09/25/13 08:54 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: sophial]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
This article outlines what Fabbrini does with Hamburg D's.

My question is whether the cross bracing in this photograph is in all Hamburg D's or are they just for Fabbrini's instruments?



The photograph is in this presentation of Fabbrini's 200th Hamburg D in production.
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Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2157388 - 09/25/13 11:11 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1890
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
The bracing and rim in this picture seem stock to me.
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#2157394 - 09/25/13 11:25 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
The bracing and rim in this picture seem stock to me.

I asked because the horizontal cross braces, about half way up the frame, are not in this photo but I suppose they could be added later.



Edited by Withindale (09/25/13 11:28 AM)
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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
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#2157458 - 09/25/13 01:35 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Withindale]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England


Yes, OK, it seems that those bracing bits are fitted, as Ed said. Thanks to Trinity University for the shot.

In a recent thread in the tech forum there was a discussion about Mason & Hamlins and the rigidity of the rim. The Fazioli 278 has a couple of substantial braces to the long side of the rim but the Steinway D does not.

I wonder if the 19C design of the Steinway D is beginning to lose out to more recent designs such as the Fazioli, Steingraeber and, dare I say it, Yamaha CFx.

The Steinway C occupies a hole in the range and, I gather, a new design is long overdue.

Once the euphoria of the acquisition has subsided, perhaps Mr Paulson will come round to the view that all of today's Steinways should become Steinwas's, to be replaced with evolutionary designs that stand comparison with all competitors in every respect. The transition would have to be handled with some deft marketing of course.

So, Almaviva, my answer to your question in the title, if not quite the text, is that it could and perhaps should be "Now".


Edited by Withindale (09/26/13 06:20 AM)
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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2157842 - 09/26/13 06:41 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1094
Hi Ian,

Outside London in the concert halls the norm is pretty much Steinway and Yamaha, more so Steinway though. In London we are starting to see more Bosendorfers (notably Valentina Lisitsa in the RAH), Bechsteins (recently in the Wigmore), Fazioli (frequently at the Wigmore), Bluthners (Artur Pizarro has championed the use of Bluthners in the concert hall, as well as Yamahas), and the Yamaha CFX is also gaining a strong foothold. I haven't seen any Steingraebers or Phoenix in concert halls yet, but I'm sure it will happen, and I see far less Kawais, but I've played a few Kawai EX on the continent.

All of these instruments are good, they all have their own particular beauties, strenghts, etc, they all have wonderful actions and are capable of beautiful tone, but in my experience as an audience member and a performer, Steinway is the one that is best at projection in a large hall. I don't know exactly why, but Steinway seem to have mastered building pianos that can be heard above an orchestra or project in the largest halls, whereas some of the others just don't have quite the same ability in that direction. Granted, it's not the only thing you need from a piano, and in fact you don't always want that level of projection.

Some will make the argument that you shouldn't need one piano for concertos and one for recitals, and that may be true, but some concertos are really heavily orchestrated - like Bartok 3, Rachmaninoff 3, Prokofieff 2, and they do require instruments that will be heard above an orchestra. Mozart, Beethoven, even Brahms and Tchaikovsky you can use a 'smaller' sounding piano, but I think if I was playing a large 20th Century concerto, in a large hall, with a heavy orchestral force behind me, I would want a Steinway. If I was performing Mozart sonatas in the Wigmore Hall (which I haven't done, but you never know, I might), then I would want something clear and sweet like a Bluthner. (I would want that, many others wouldn't).

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#2157980 - 09/26/13 11:57 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: joe80]
Withindale Offline
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Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Hi Joe,

Thank you for reminding us about Steinway's projection in concert halls. That could be the foundation stone of the brand.

A $64 question is whether Steinway pianos would have developed more over the past 125 years had C F Theodore Steinway been immortal. My guess is that they would. I'd suggest it's a question Mr Paulson should not ignore. The majority of his sales will be to individuals and there will be no lack of competition for their custom. Projection and standing up to symphony orchestra could be the last things on their wish list.

Your mention of a C. Bechstein instrument at Wigmore Hall is interesting. The Bechstein company built it around 1900, as many forum members may know.

"Whither Steinway?" has been an interesting topic since Kohlberg's offer was put on the table. Now, I think, we will have just wait and see what the future holds, and leave our esteemed rebuilders to revive the past under a Steinway banner.

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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2158598 - 09/27/13 01:22 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
joe80 Offline
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Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1094
Hi Ian,

Exactly, In my home I wouldn't want a piano that was built for projection in a concert hall, it would be too much. Also, some of the concerts I've heard in the Wigmore with a Steinway D have been truly overpowering.

In marketing terms I'm not sure it would be wise for Steinways to change things. I think their attitude is that they've stuck to a formula that has worked. Incidentally it's not that Steinway hasn't changed things over the years - various things have changed but there's been nothing radical, hence the Steinway of 1893 can be rebuilt to 2013 specifications. So, from a marketing perspective I think that Steinway will want to keep Steinway a Steinway. Whether that's right from a musical perspective I don't know, but the bottom line is their instruments still sell, people still want the Steinway as it is. You and I might and probably do think there are other more musical instruments, instruments that are better suited to other purposes than the Steinway, but it seems to be the case that a venue owner will buy a Steinway if they want a new piano, and if they can't afford a Steinway, they'll get a Yamaha. We're starting to see a few Shigeru Kawais and Faziolis out there too, and some Bosendorfers.

Some venues buy these other instruments because they truly prefer them, and others because they go to Steinway Hall and realise they just can't afford a Steinway, and don't really want a Boston. Shigeru Kawai, Fazioli, Yamaha and Bosendorfer are not stand ins for the Steinway, they are different pianos in their own right and have something else to offer.

It is an interesting point though, that many people modify Steinways because they love the Steinway piano but there are some things that they don't like. Usually people that modify them are all going for the same things - a little more sustain and a better quality of sound - but they love the projection of the D.

Yup, I know that Bechstein built the Wigmore Hall and it was renamed in WW1 (or 2? was it?). There is still a 'bechstein room' in the Wigmore Hall, and I think there may even be some Bechstein uprights downstairs. The hall owns 3 Steinway Ds that are maintained by Steinway Hall, and I think they are never more than ten years old. I wonder if concert halls are actually loosing out by replacing their pianos after a short period? There's a lot to be said for a 20 or 30 year old Steinway, especially for chamber music, when it's mellowed out and relaxed a bit. Rebuild the action, replace the strings and it will be ready to go, no?

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#2158605 - 09/27/13 01:52 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: joe80]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
Originally Posted By: joe80
Rebuild the action, replace the strings and it will be ready to go, no?


It's not that simple. Plus, the piano has to be taken out of service for such work to be performed, and that can be difficult for institutions.
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#2158617 - 09/27/13 02:22 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: joe80]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: joe80
In marketing terms I'm not sure it would be wise for Steinways to change things.

I'm not sure it would either, but I am certain it would be foolhardy to do nothing.

Luckily for him, Mr Paulson can enjoy the luxury of perfecting the current range as it is. All because he has a golden opportunity to introduce a superlative new version of the Model C.

Steinway's main market is the home. On the evidence of this forum, there are many pianists interested in a 7'6" instrument and plenty of German and Japanese models to choose from. People say the original NY Model C has design faults but Marty for one is still singing its praises. I think Marty will also tell you the Steingraeber D-232 is a very fine instrument.

What Mr Paulson could say is build a new Steinway Model C that every pianist will rate as highly as any other piano in that range. Joe may still choose a Bluthner or a Fazioli but that should only be on grounds of tone and taste. People who listen to the D in public should aspire to the C at home. By the way, the new C should also be perfect for the Wigmore Hall.

There you have it, the 21c Model C, the new Steinway flagship. The Model D and Model B would then be vying to come up to the same standard.

Just a thought.


Edited by Withindale (09/28/13 09:32 AM)
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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2158649 - 09/27/13 03:35 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Norbert Offline
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Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
The hall owns 3 Steinway Ds that are maintained by Steinway Hall, and I think they are never more than ten years old. I wonder if concert halls are actually loosing out by replacing their pianos after a short period? There's a lot to be said for a 20 or 30 year old Steinway, especially for chamber music, when it's mellowed out and relaxed a bit. Rebuild the action, replace the strings and it will be ready to go, no?


Many concert Halls like the Berlin Philharmonic do this every 2 years. These pianos apparently get special documentation and as result have wide appeal to pianists worldwide.

Prices paid for these used instruments are approximately same as concert halls pay for new replacements, so no rebuilders need apply.

It's a formula seemingly working well for those directly involved.

Norbert
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#2158730 - 09/27/13 06:08 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Norbert]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1890
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
If the piano market place had more information about how standards of tone regulation affect wear-the prices for used and new would reflect this. Instead we see the situation as Norbert describes.

The fact that ten years of "real"use of todays new piano will destroy the action-demolishes the investment value some promote.

An action tone regulated along the lines of the "shape up to lighten and open the tone" compared to "needle down new hammers", will last far longer under the same conditions of use.
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#2158959 - 09/28/13 08:36 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
joe80 Offline
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Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1094
Ian, there's still a model C in Hamburg, although Steinway Hall haven't sold one in about a decade. I really like the Steinway C, actually. We had one at the RSAMD and it was amazing. Sadly, because it wasn't a D, the powers that be allowed people to use it as a practice piano, and it wasn't given the same care and attention from the technicians as the model Ds were, so it became tired out and in poor regulation quickly. It's been sold now as far as I know but it was a beautiful sounding piano, and could be again.

The idea of a lighter touch weight appeals to me, Ed, because it allows some real music making to go on. Quite often I find that I'm battling with pianos that I perform on, and the heavy touch means that the dynamic range is limited in both directions, and the possibility of producing a true legato cantilena is almost removed. It can be very frustrating.

Beethoven986 - yeah I know it can be difficult for institutions but when the institution/concert hall has three or four concert grands, it becomes easier. I know there's a bit more to it than what I described, but in such a young piano there shouldn't be too many problems providing it has been kept as close to concert ready as possible.

Somebody at Steinway told me, and I suspect this ISN'T true but perhaps you can tell me otherwise, that after ten to fifteen years, the RIM (not the soundboard but the RIM!) looses its ability to project the sound effectively, therefore rendering the piano unsuitable for use in a large hall. However, the piano remains suitable for small halls and pianists to use for their personal instruments.

I suspect having seen that Horowitz used a 1910 Steinway for his 1982 Festival Hall recital, that this might be Steinways way of continually selling new model Ds to high profile well-funded venues. Please, tell me if I'm wrong here.

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#2158976 - 09/28/13 09:19 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: joe80]
Ed Foote Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1101
Loc: Tennessee
[quote=joe80

Somebody at Steinway told me, and I suspect this ISN'T true but perhaps you can tell me otherwise, that after ten to fifteen years, the RIM (not the soundboard but the RIM!) looses its ability to project the sound effectively, therefore rendering the piano unsuitable for use in a large hall. However, the piano remains suitable for small halls and pianists to use for their personal instruments. [quote=joe80

I suspect having seen that Horowitz used a 1910 Steinway for his 1982 Festival Hall recital, that this might be Steinways way of continually selling new model Ds to high profile well-funded venues. Please, tell me if I'm wrong here.[/quote]

Greetings,
I wouldn't suspect the rim loses anything that would cost you projection and power. I would be more inclined to say that soundboard collapsing or falling was the responsible party. Perhaps one out of seven Steinways has a decent board after 80 years, the rest are terribly compromised.

I was given the chance to inspect Horowitz's piano, shortly after it was returned to the Steinway factory following his death,(before it was totally de-regulated on orders from higher-up), and then, again, after it was "restored" and sent back out on tour. When it was here at Vanderbilt, I got a chance to measure the bearing and found that the board was nearly flat through much of the middle, with just a few thousandths down bearing in the fifth octave. It was still a very resonant board, though. An exception, not a rule.
Regards,


Edited by Ed Foote (09/28/13 09:20 AM)

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#2158987 - 09/28/13 09:38 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: joe80]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Joe,

Interesting about the model C sounding amazing - that's what Marty says of his own (doesn't he?) - and Hamburg not selling a model C for 10 years. Time for that new model, with Ed McM to consult on design!
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Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2158996 - 09/28/13 09:54 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
Yes, I am very pleased with my 'C'. Keep in mind that it was recently totally rebuilt and it has alterations from what would have been available in 1906.

I'm a little curious about only one 'C' coming out of Hamburg in the last ten years, however. I have three friends who have purchased new ones within that time span. One was purchased in the USA, one in Vienna, and one is in Prague. The new ones are magnificent instruments. I think that Steinway has done a great job using their own designers. Unlike the USA, the 'C' from Hamburg has had steady improvement across the years.
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It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2159029 - 09/28/13 11:10 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2631
Loc: western Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The new ones are magnificent instruments. I think that Steinway has done a great job using their own designers. Unlike the USA, the 'C' from Hamburg has had steady improvement across the years.


Hi Marty,

I've never seen a new C, and being based in the US, have only played a partially rebuilt one that was good... while the rest were just shells in need of restoration. I am unaware of the design evolution of the model C - could you fill us in on the details as the forum's resident model C enthusiast?
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#2159035 - 09/28/13 11:22 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
Hi TD,

I didn't mean to imply that there was a major design change, but the same evolution and upgrades that parallels the other models. Strings and scaling differences, action changes (accelerated), hammers and hammer weight, that sort of thing. Hamburg never experienced the Teflon trap.

It is interesting that mine has the NY overtone timbre and produces the "American" sound. It is easy to hear that difference compared to the "Hamburg" versions. Mine does not have the accelerated action, but I have never found that to be a problem with any well regulated Steinway.
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It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2159651 - 09/29/13 01:09 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1094
What I meant was Steinway Hall in London haven't sold or stocked a model C in about a decade. They're still very popular in smaller venues on the continent. I played a few in Germany, where they seem to like to go for pianos that fit the size of the hall!

I played a New York B in Steinways the other day, and yet again I fell head over heels for the touch and sound. The only thing that would put me off buying it is the fact that I can't afford it! I don't know why I prefer it to the Hamburg B, it seemed to sing more and it seemed to be more even in tone, and the action played itself in a way that I haven't come across very often. Yeah. I want it.

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#2159699 - 09/29/13 03:06 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
S. Phillips Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Forte Farm, Lexington, KY
I just put a new board in my 1901 C. You'll all just have to come down here and play it when I get the new action in it. I just tuned it for the first time this week using the old action until the new parts arrive. I love my B and the C but this one (long involved story) has a special sound that you just can't get from either the B or D. The concept of the tone is really unique. So right now I have three Steinways in the living room and it's sort of getting ridiculous. You just have to throw those discussions about how large a piano you can fit in any given room right out the window.
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#2159708 - 09/29/13 03:28 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: S. Phillips
So right now I have three Steinways in the living room and it's sort of getting ridiculous. You just have to throw those discussions about how large a piano you can fit in any given room right out the window.

It just depends on your priorities... smile

Can't wait to see, hear and play the Steinway C, Sally!

Rick
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#2159834 - 09/29/13 09:07 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
newgeneration Offline
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Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario
I've only read through the first two pages of this thread but I imagine pages 3 and 4 are similar.

And it has suddenly occurred to me....
Steinway as a company is like Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. MLSE is somehow able to sell to sports fans its 'fantastic' franchises such as the Maple Leafs, TorontoFC and Toronto Raptors - fans clamour for tickets and merchandise and follow their team with the utmost loyalty touting them against all others. But the reality is for so long (and it pains me to say this), our Toronto teams have underperformed. Consider every ten games or so that any of these MLSE teams play in, maybe 3-4 at the most are stellar value for the paying fan. The owners are not athletes, they are business people and experts in marketing and monopolizing the market (surrounding regions of Toronto are pleading for additional NHL and NFL teams, but somehow it is always being strong-armed into oblivion).

Now consider Steinway today, equally a loyal following by its fans. Yet surprisingly, it is not uncommon to hear those choosing a Steinway must try about 10 and find that only 2 or 3 of these really impress. Consider the ownership of the Steinway company, as it has been bought and sold over the last decades. Held by music lovers no doubt but the ownership is definitely business based, with tremendous attention to their marketing and advertising - far greater than any other piano builder out there.

The similarities are uncanny. smile

In terms of rebuilding, the Maple Leafs can acquire 'hard hammers' but lately have a tendency to be going with 'soft hammers'. The brand remains a blue and white Maple Leaf as the face of the franchise.
Steinway likewise have changed their 'line up' of parts over the course of the last century, but the name on the fallboard remains branded as Steinway.

I wonder if Coca-cola tastes the same today as it did 30 years ago? Maybe there are chemists that cater to this and could produce Coke as it was years ago? I've heard that the recipe is altered depending on where in the world you find Coca-Cola but I'm not sure if it is true or not.

Luckily, there are very fine brands considering all sorts of varied merchandise that today are producing their products with the same attention and consideration as when they were first founded over 100 years ago. At least with these, we can be sure of what we are getting - albeit usually at a slight premium - but well worth the consideration and peace of mind that the investment was a good one.
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#2159906 - 09/30/13 02:53 AM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: newgeneration]
Withindale Offline
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Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: newgeneration
I've only read through the first two pages of this thread but I imagine pages 3 and 4 are similar.

And why, pray, would you imagine that?
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#2160092 - 09/30/13 01:48 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: newgeneration]
Withindale Offline
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Registered: 02/09/11
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Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: newgeneration
Luckily, there are very fine brands considering all sorts of varied merchandise that today are producing their products with the same attention and consideration as when they were first founded over 100 years ago.

You refer to Steingraeber, among others?

In what ways have Steingraeber improved the characteristics of their instruments, such as (say) tonal clarity, over the last 25 - 50 years to set themselves apart from their competitors?
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#2160098 - 09/30/13 01:54 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Withindale]
beethoven986 Offline
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Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
Originally Posted By: Withindale


In what ways have Steingraeber improved the characteristics of their instruments, such as (say) tonal clarity, over the last 25 - 50 years to set themselves apart from their competitors?


Uhhh... Phoenix System? Lol.
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#2160150 - 09/30/13 04:29 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: beethoven986]
Withindale Offline
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Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1923
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: Withindale


In what ways have Steingraeber improved the characteristics of their instruments, such as (say) tonal clarity, over the last 25 - 50 years to set themselves apart from their competitors?
Uhhh... Phoenix System? Lol.

Quite so but, to be clear, I meant the general characteristics of Steingraeber pianos Grand Piano House Inc sells.

That would exclude the points on Steingraeber's innovations page

Earlier in this thread I suggested that a few competitors were getting ahead of Steinway, such as the Steingraeber D-272 compared to the Steinway D. It would be interesting to hear how that has been achieved, if it has, from someone who should know.


Edited by Withindale (09/30/13 04:54 PM)
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#2160163 - 09/30/13 05:12 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Withindale]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: Withindale


In what ways have Steingraeber improved the characteristics of their instruments, such as (say) tonal clarity, over the last 25 - 50 years to set themselves apart from their competitors?
Uhhh... Phoenix System? Lol.

Quite so but, to be clear, I meant the general characteristics of Steingraeber pianos Grand Piano House Inc sells.

That would exclude the points on Steingraeber's innovations page

Earlier in this thread I suggested that a few competitors were getting ahead of Steinway, such as the Steingraeber D-272 compared to the Steinway D. It would be interesting to hear how that has been achieved, if it has, from someone who should know.


It would be difficult to compare, at least regarding concert grands. If memory serves, Steingraeber did not make a 9' class instrument until relatively recently. That said, I have played a few older Steingraebers (older than 50 years), and the difference is striking... the new instruments are much more powerful. Now, I would also say (and I think those who have experienced these instruments will agree) that the model 232 is as, or even more powerful, than the D.
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#2160169 - 09/30/13 05:39 PM Re: At what point does a Steinway become a "Steinwas"? [Re: Almaviva]
Norbert Offline
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Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
In what ways have Steingraeber improved the characteristics of their instruments, such as (say) tonal clarity, over the last 25 - 50 years to set themselves apart from their competitors?


Every German company I know [including Estonia] pays special attention to the market segment they are already successful in.
And those they're *not*

They study their success there and then see how they can transfer the experience later onto other models.

People who have traveled lots and visited the various factories are aware of this making for fascinating conversations when there.

Talking in overly general terms by "brand" only, IMHO oversees the little nuggets most of the makers have in their line up.

Which, when identified can put these pianos truly in a class of their own.

Thinking this being true of course for most brands, but also very much German/Europeans.

Few I know would dare to put their own 5'7 grands besides a Steingraeber A 170

I wouldn't, luckily don't carry that [exact] size with any of ours...

Norbert whome



Edited by Norbert (09/30/13 10:08 PM)
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