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#2087064 - 05/22/13 10:25 PM HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ??
BOREGARD Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 67
I'm new to piano and have decided I do not want an electric piano. So that puts me into the treacherous waters of acoustic pianos. Here's my question and I will be appreciative of any comments.

While there are many dimensions by which an acoustic can be judged let's keep it simple with just two parameters: 1) Sound, and 2) Feel and finger action.

Given these two parameters, anyone have an opinon on the Hailun 178 vs the Yamaha C2? Problem is that I've never played the 178. I just played the C2 (now discontinued) and it blew me away. Would the 178 compare in any way regarding sonics and action?

Now let's add to the mix the Hailun 180V. This instrument is two inches longer than the than the Yamaha C2. Any comparisons or comments on these three pianos will be appreciated.

Thanks.

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#2087065 - 05/22/13 10:32 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3622
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: BOREGARD
I'm new to piano and have decided I do not want an electric piano. So that puts me into the treacherous waters of acoustic pianos. Here's my question and I will be appreciative of any comments.

While there are many dimensions by which an acoustic can be judged let's keep it simple with just two parameters: 1) Sound, and 2) Feel and finger action.

Given these two parameters, anyone have an opinon on the Hailun 178 vs the Yamaha C2? Problem is that I've never played the 178. I just played the C2 (now discontinued) and it blew me away. Would the 178 compare in any way regarding sonics and action?

Now let's add to the mix the Hailun 180V. This instrument is two inches longer than the than the Yamaha C2. Any comparisons or comments on these three pianos will be appreciated.

Thanks.


When I played the Hailun 178 and 180 models, I found I actually preferred the tone of the 178 - even though the 180 is marketed as a premium model and carries a higher price tag. The only thing that I liked more about the 180 was the material of the black keys was nicer - and it was a bit prettier. All things being equal, I'd probably take the Yamaha out of the 3 though.

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#2087237 - 05/23/13 08:59 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Boregard,

Are you anywhere near Philadelphia? If so, you would do well to check out the 5'-10" Cunningham Parlour Grand. It is a very impressive piano. It is built by Hailun but is of a totally different design and I prefer it to the Hailuns. I know that some new dealerships have been added, so you might want to give Rich Galassini a call to enquire.

http://www.cunninghampiano.com/cunningham/

Is the Yamaha C2 new? Have you also had a chance to play the Kawai RX-2? It is a very good piano. Kawai is introducing a new line of grands and there are some good prices to be found on the RX series.

May I make a suggestion? Since you are new to the piano shopping event, take your time. Play as many different pianos as you can. As you audition pianos, set up a log with a rating system. It is great if you can also make an audio recording of each instrument.

Many new shoppers are impressed by a "bright" tone in the treble register. Learn to listen into the sound, rather than going by first, quick impression. Substance is better than bling. It sounds difficult to do, but it only takes a little practice to listen for the depth of tone, rather than just the surface ring.

Keep us posted on your search.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2092352 - 05/30/13 06:07 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BOREGARD Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 67
Good suggestions, Marty.
Thanks. But the suggestion to play as many pianos as one can is great but difficult to accomplish. Not at all like buying a new car. Thanks again.

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#2092713 - 05/31/13 08:46 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1275
Since Hailuns are made from papier mache and have tissue paper soundboards and cardboard actions that will melt in jsut above average humidity, I'd go for the Yamaha.

Naw only joking, the Hailun's will be fine, it depends on what you prefer. Personally I'd opt for the Yamaha but if you prefer the Hailun and you're happy with the price, go for it.

Marty makes a good point about tone. Often bright voicing is to compensate for poor sustain. If the piano sounds bright but still has a long sustain and is pure, then you've got a good one. If the piano is bright but it is short in sustain, it's not so good, but then you're working in a price range that limits the quality you can get.

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#2155653 - 09/22/13 05:17 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BOREGARD Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 67
Marty: I see your stuff here all the time and it is always helpful. Your suggestion to "listen into the piano" and not just the superficial aural presentation is a most insightful piece of advice. I will keep this in mind when auditioning instruments.

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#2155951 - 09/23/13 03:42 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
As a Yahama C1 owner, I will offer my opinion in the hope that it can help.

I find the Yahama excessively bright at the top end, even shrill, to the point of becoming displeasing to the ear. Try (or have someone play for you) the octave passages of La Campanella in the very upper registers; even with the una corda depressed it is pretty shrill. I also find that my Yamaha is very difficult to play pianissimo, even when just applying enough finger pressure to raise the hammer to actually sound the string. On the other hand, fff is no problem!

I should note that a couple hours of voicing by a talented technician helped with the brightness, but only so much as is realistically possible given the DNA of the instrument. Also, the brightness inevitably comes back when the hammers harden, and this doesn't take too long (in my experience) if you play 4 hours a day seriously.

That said, the action of the Yamaha is laser perfect, and mine is a bit heavy (which I like).

Hailun:
What I have gathered from various threads around PW is that the Hailun has a warmer, richer tone compared with the Yamaha. I've seen this corroborated in YouTube videos, and I am impressed (Ritmuller too, by the way). Because of this, and if I were to do it again, I would give the Hailun (and Ritmuller) a more serious look. They won't hold their value as well as the Yamaha, but playability, not investment outlook, is the major concern for you at this point.

In fact, I have been so unhappy with the shrillness of my piano, that I have considered trading for a warmer instrument. I drop in to the stores on Piano Row frequently but it's hard for me to make this happen financially.

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#2155971 - 09/23/13 05:46 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1275
Chinese pianos are now excellent quality, and give the Japanese some serious competition. I have never played a Hailun, but I imagine a well-prepared Hailun will be comparable with the Yamaha.

Perhaps the Yamaha will have the edge on precision, they are renowned for their actions, but tonally, you may well prefer the Hailun.

I've never played Cunningham either, because I'm not in the USA, but the Chinese build good strung backs, frames, use good soundboards, and with bespoke design and preparation, I'm sure the Cunninghams will be excellent pianos - especially in their price range and I've no doubt they will punch well above their weight.

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#2158313 - 09/26/13 11:02 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
J_D Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Texas, USA
I have a Hailun 178. I like the tone and it has a very good sustain, so no complaints about the quality of sound. I will say that I continue to have issues with a squeak when I use the sustain. I posted a question and asked about warranty service on the Hailun USA site and have yet to get a reply other than the automated reply that I will receive an answer soon.

I had sold a 1977 Baldwin upright and used a weighted action keyboard for several 6 or 7 years before purchasing the Hailun. I tell you that as I have a little difficulty playing pp or p and I am not sure if it's a limitation of the piano or my technique from being on a keyboard for 6 or 7 years. I am saying that although the tone of the Hailun is really good, I am not too certain about the action, although it is very even from the top to the bottom of the scale.
Hope this helps some.
_________________________
J.D.
Hailun 178

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#2158360 - 09/27/13 01:12 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 320
Loc: CA
J.D.

That should be easy to verify. Go to a store and play a fine piano. If have the same issues, then more than likely its not the Hailun. If not, perhaps you should ask the dealer to give it a once over.

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#2158379 - 09/27/13 02:24 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 875
What's up with squeaky pedals? Is it hard to fix? I once went to a dealer who had a nice Petrof grand, and it had a really squeaky pedal. I thought since he has a regular tech, if he hasn't fixed it, maybe it can't be fixed.

Even though the first person you should probably for service is the dealer, it's good to know that Hailun ignores their customer service inbox.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2158561 - 09/27/13 11:45 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: J_D]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2735
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: J_D
I have a Hailun 178. I like the tone and it has a very good sustain, so no complaints about the quality of sound. I will say that I continue to have issues with a squeak when I use the sustain. I posted a question and asked about warranty service on the Hailun USA site and have yet to get a reply other than the automated reply that I will receive an answer soon.

I had sold a 1977 Baldwin upright and used a weighted action keyboard for several 6 or 7 years before purchasing the Hailun. I tell you that as I have a little difficulty playing pp or p and I am not sure if it's a limitation of the piano or my technique from being on a keyboard for 6 or 7 years. I am saying that although the tone of the Hailun is really good, I am not too certain about the action, although it is very even from the top to the bottom of the scale.
Hope this helps some.
Hello J_D, both of what you describe comes up under the maintenance category rather than warranty. Squeaky pedals are common enough to many pianos, but can be persistent even when a tech addresses the typical causes. Hailun's service manager is very helpful and quick to respond, so I don't know if you haven't run into a technology glitch rather than a non-response.

To get better soft dynamics, you usually have to get into really fine regulation in addition to working on your technique. Voicing may be a part as well, but I recommend care in this area because if you kill the hammer, it will take a long time to come back. Maybe the spring tension on your reps is too firm. Maybe the letoff isn't close enough. These will affect your dynamic control even when it already feels even. I hope that helps. While the piano is likely to be louder than a closed box upright or digital with volume knob, it is capable of a wide dymanic range.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2158563 - 09/27/13 11:46 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1536
Loc: Danville, California
I appreciate your frustration regarding little irritating things like a squeaky pedal, but you should be aware that a squeaky pedal is not a warranty issue.

It is a basic dealer preparation/service issue.

Regardless of the brand.

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#2158654 - 09/27/13 03:41 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14141
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
They won't hold their value as well as the Yamaha, but playability, not investment outlook, is the major concern for you at this point.


This may be true for private parties but is no longer in showrooms when pianos are put side-by-side.

We had an almost new, hardly used Yamaha C grand on floor for almost 2 years, well tuned and regulated - just didn't sell.

Lowered price three times - still didn't do the trick.
Until one lucky day - just recently...

People may be thinking it's a "set-up" but it's not.
We actually needed to sell piano to get our money out.

It's piano comparison happening "live" - plain and simple.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (09/27/13 03:46 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2158991 - 09/28/13 09:47 AM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: rlinkt]
J_D Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Texas, USA
rlinkt, The Dealer in Dallas went out of business about a year after I purchased it. The squeak is not in the pedal area, but rather in a pin block that translates the pedal push rod from verital to horizonal movement on the underside of the piano.

Drives me crazy. Going to contact a RPT in my area.
_________________________
J.D.
Hailun 178

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#2159061 - 09/28/13 12:38 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 320
Loc: CA
That is unfortunate. Question for the dealers: who is responsible for providing warranty services if my dealer goes out of business?

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#2159080 - 09/28/13 01:37 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: BOREGARD]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2736
Loc: western Wisconsin
The manufacturer or US distributor backs the warranty on new pianos that aren't "stencil" brands.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
Steinway A #585209, B #416809 @ work
Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

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#2159100 - 09/28/13 02:27 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: rlinkt]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2735
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: rlinkt
That is unfortunate. Question for the dealers: who is responsible for providing warranty services if my dealer goes out of business?
Again, his is a setup/maintenance service, not generally warranty. To answer your question, the manufacturer still supports the warranty, however coordinating the point of service becomes more difficult just as if you were in a remote area or if you bought out of territory. J_D has the right plan to contact an RPT in his area to lubricate and regulate the trapwork. If the RPT discovers an actual manufacturing defect is the cause, then Hailun could be contacted about paying for the service.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2159104 - 09/28/13 02:38 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: michaelha]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
I've also experienced squeaky pedal syndrome, but only in the (New York) winter. The problem seems to have dissipated during the (unbearably hot and humid New York) summer. Which leads me to think the syndrome is about dryness. Although I will say I kept my humidifier cranked ... but I guess it just wasn't enough. I guess it's something we have to live with or have someone apply axle grease to the mechanism. Ha.

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#2159121 - 09/28/13 03:00 PM Re: HAILUN 178, HAILUN 180V, OR YAMAHA C2 ?? [Re: Norbert]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
They won't hold their value as well as the Yamaha, but playability, not investment outlook, is the major concern for you at this point.


This may be true for private parties but is no longer in showrooms when pianos are put side-by-side.

We had an almost new, hardly used Yamaha C grand on floor for almost 2 years, well tuned and regulated - just didn't sell.

Lowered price three times - still didn't do the trick.
Until one lucky day - just recently...

People may be thinking it's a "set-up" but it's not.
We actually needed to sell piano to get our money out.

It's piano comparison happening "live" - plain and simple.

Norbert



Hey Norbert--

Thanks for your sharing your experience. I don't doubt it from what I have seen.

I should say that taking the plunge on a grand piano should be (my point of view only) about "connection" (hokey, so apologies), not necessarily the price/"quality"/value quotient. This is just my experience as a Yamaha C owner who only considered Japanese and higher in his purchase based on perhaps unfounded market perceptions ... and should have been more flexible on brand, especially considering the price differential!

Just to be fair to the original question, though, I think the OP should be aware that, should an upgrade be sought in the future, from whatever he ends up purchasing, he MIGHT (might, not definite) recoup a higher percentage of his original purchase on a C/CX, or RX/GX for that matter. And that is if the new dealer will even entertain a trade. (Here in New York I've had one dealer REALLY not want to take a trade even on a Yamaha C, evaluated to be in pristine condition by technicians from, let's say, an outer borough. The new dealer did not evaluate my piano in person as he didn't want to take a trade anyhow; that's why I mention the outer borough technicians.)


Edited by frenchflip (09/28/13 07:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarify

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