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#2143337 - 09/03/13 09:19 AM No piano??
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
Hello,

Would truly appreciate some advice from piano teachers here. smile

I managed to scrape through grade 8 last year and wish to pursue a diploma. Since I finished my exam, I've practised infrequently as I was busy getting married and moving to my mother-in-law's place. I'm currently staying with my mother-in-law and have no access to a good piano--there is a 15-year-old upright Schimmel that has been 'restored', but the keys are very sticky. I've got a digital piano that I've been practising basic scales on, just so I won't lose touch. My new house will be ready by June next year (and that's when I can start regular lessons again, and when I can get a new piano), but until then, I guess I only have a digital piano to work with. What are some other things I can work on during this interim period? Would it be advisable to get regular lessons at a teacher's place but practice on my digital piano?

Thanks!:)

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#2143340 - 09/03/13 09:27 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I have taught, with some success, both beginner and advanced students who only have a keyboard to practice on. The better the quality of the keyboard, the better for you. Is it fully weighted? Have 88 keys? At least 2 pedals?

Also, as you have passed grade 8, I would suggest pulling out your grade 6 & 7 books, spend time each day bringing those pieces you learned to high polish and add to them the selections you didn't learn. Get everything memorized as well; try playing a small recital for friends and family. This will cause you to be super critical in honing your skills.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2143726 - 09/03/13 10:56 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Is there a church nearby with a serviceable instrument? You may contact them and see if they'd be willing to let you practice on it in exchange for playing for a service or two, just be very specific on what you will do.

I had to practice on a digital piano this summer, and my technique really suffered. My Roland FP-7 isn't not low-end, but not the highest end either in digitals. Still, playing advanced music on it was a bit frustrating. You have an instrument you can practice on , so I'd say keep up the lessons if you can. It certainly would help.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2144458 - 09/05/13 04:48 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
I have a Yamaha CLP-230, so I guess that's decent for practice?

I jumped from grade 5 to grade 8, and have lost my grade 5 books because those were quite a while ago. Would learning grade 6 and 7 pieces now, without the guidance of a teacher, be any good? Or would I risk learning/ practising the wrong things?

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#2144464 - 09/05/13 05:08 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Morodiene]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
There is a church nearby, but am not sure they'd be open when I can practice, maybe unless i jump over the walls... and I've to overcome my shyness!

Thanks for your advice about the lessons!

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#2145022 - 09/06/13 01:48 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Or would I risk learning/ practising the wrong things?


Without the guidance of a good teacher, you're always risking this, regardless of what you practice (because it's more the how you're practicing than the what). Practice what you enjoy most and/or what will help you to reach your goals.

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#2145131 - 09/06/13 08:30 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Athdara
I have a Yamaha CLP-230, so I guess that's decent for practice?
Actually, it's not ideal for that level of playing. I recently had to practice on my digital piano (Roland FP-7) for a few months this summer, and it really affected my technique negatively. It may be good to use as a last resort, but if you can get into that church to play at least 1-2 times per week even that would be better than playing the DP exclusively.

Quote:
I jumped from grade 5 to grade 8, and have lost my grade 5 books because those were quite a while ago. Would learning grade 6 and 7 pieces now, without the guidance of a teacher, be any good? Or would I risk learning/ practising the wrong things?
If you can't get a teacher, then playing anything is better than playing nothing until you can get a teacher. Why restrict yourself to music that is in those grades? I would select whatever inspires you and give it a shot. Even if it's out of reach, you can learn from it. Bad habits will most likely creep in regardless, but that is a fact of life. When you can start lessons again, they'll be dealt with. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2146578 - 09/08/13 07:07 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Bobpickle]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Or would I risk learning/ practising the wrong things?


Without the guidance of a good teacher, you're always risking this, regardless of what you practice (because it's more the how you're practicing than the what). Practice what you enjoy most and/or what will help you to reach your goals.


Thanks haha...I realise I asked a stupid question crazy

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#2148007 - 09/11/13 02:34 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 845
Try to find out what the Schimmel requires to improve the touch. Perhaps you can get a tuner/technician to inspect it. Perhaps, it's just a question of some regulation or changing the humidity. If you can help your mother-in-law with this issue, it will be a feather in your cap.

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#2158882 - 09/28/13 01:56 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Candywoman]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
Thanks! I've just gotten someone to tune it & fix it a little today, and he'll be coming by next week to do a second tuning. The Schimmel is much better!:D The action is still not that consistent and touch is not as responsive as a new piano's, but i was quoted about $650usd for regulation, so am not sure if it's worth that investment. It's already much better to play now. Am so excited; plonked my baby niece on the bench and got her dancing to some tunes grin

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#2158960 - 09/28/13 08:50 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I just reread your original post and am now wondering why a 15 year old Schimmel would need to be restored. Was it involved in some kind of accident? How would it have sticky keys? Did someone spill soda on it? A 15 yr old Schimmel should only need minor touch ups, however $650 sounds very reasonable if the tech is going to remove and adjust the entire action, reform the hammers, etc.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2158961 - 09/28/13 08:51 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Thanks! I've just gotten someone to tune it & fix it a little today, and he'll be coming by next week to do a second tuning. The Schimmel is much better!:D The action is still not that consistent and touch is not as responsive as a new piano's, but i was quoted about $650usd for regulation, so am not sure if it's worth that investment. It's already much better to play now. Am so excited; plonked my baby niece on the bench and got her dancing to some tunes grin
I would get a 2nd quote on the regulation, seems rather spendy for an upright. But glad it's much better to play on, and hopefully you can upgrade in the future.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2158975 - 09/28/13 09:16 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10371
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
The clp-230 is a rather decent digital. It's not a toy keyboard. It has weighted keys.





Depending on the condition of the Schimmel, both of these might be good, serviceable practice instruments.

As far as the church is concerned, at most times of the day/evening, church pianos are lonely beasts just waiting for a human to come and play them. No need to be shy. The sanctuary is usually empty. That would give you access to a grand.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2159000 - 09/28/13 10:01 AM Re: No piano?? [Re: Morodiene]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Thanks! I've just gotten someone to tune it & fix it a little today, and he'll be coming by next week to do a second tuning. The Schimmel is much better!:D The action is still not that consistent and touch is not as responsive as a new piano's, but i was quoted about $650usd for regulation, so am not sure if it's worth that investment. It's already much better to play now. Am so excited; plonked my baby niece on the bench and got her dancing to some tunes grin
I would get a 2nd quote on the regulation, seems rather spendy for an upright. But glad it's much better to play on, and hopefully you can upgrade in the future.

Not really; I just spend $450 having my Boston regulated, but no work needed to be done on keys. She's got sticky keys, so either there's contamination or the wood needs sanding/filing down. Either case, several hours of work involved.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2159052 - 09/28/13 12:25 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Bobpickle]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4810
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Or would I risk learning/ practising the wrong things?


Without the guidance of a good teacher, you're always risking this, regardless of what you practice (because it's more the how you're practicing than the what). Practice what you enjoy most and/or what will help you to reach your goals.

I totally agree, but I'd like to point out that I practically got screamed at by a couple people when I tried to point out the same thing, but with different words.

I have the "nerve" to say, in another thread, that practicing wrong is worse than not practicing because of damage done. I tried to point out that wrong things are learned without a teacher, and that those wrong things, when practiced, can often take a long time to fix.

Funny thing: when I explain this to my own students and their teachers, they understand what I mean. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2159078 - 09/28/13 01:28 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Athdara
Thanks! I've just gotten someone to tune it & fix it a little today, and he'll be coming by next week to do a second tuning. The Schimmel is much better!:D The action is still not that consistent and touch is not as responsive as a new piano's, but i was quoted about $650usd for regulation, so am not sure if it's worth that investment. It's already much better to play now. Am so excited; plonked my baby niece on the bench and got her dancing to some tunes grin
I would get a 2nd quote on the regulation, seems rather spendy for an upright. But glad it's much better to play on, and hopefully you can upgrade in the future.

Not really; I just spend $450 having my Boston regulated, but no work needed to be done on keys. She's got sticky keys, so either there's contamination or the wood needs sanding/filing down. Either case, several hours of work involved.
If that's the case, the instrument might not be worth it. That money might go better toward a better instrument in the future if this is a short-term piano (a year or less). Any more time than that and it's probably worth the investment in the long run.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2159210 - 09/28/13 05:38 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Morodiene]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
If that's the case, the instrument might not be worth it. That money might go better toward a better instrument in the future if this is a short-term piano (a year or less). Any more time than that and it's probably worth the investment in the long run.

I just realized that the OP lives in Singapore; a very humid climate. The Schimmel is a top grade instrument, generally pricing out 50% or more than a similar sized and high grade Yamaha. In Germany, their prices start out around $12k USD for the smallest model and climbs to $23,000 USD for the top of the line upright. I'd put the money into the instrument.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2159226 - 09/28/13 05:57 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10371
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I would agree, if athdara owned the instrument. I get the sense, however, that s(he) merely has access to it. Putting a large amount of money into it for just a short period of use may not make sense if s(he) has access to the CLP-230 and/or a good practice instrument elsewhere (like the lonely church piano).
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2159265 - 09/28/13 06:33 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Piano*Dad]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11708
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
The clp-230 is a rather decent digital. It's not a toy keyboard. It has weighted keys.



It is one or two levels above the instrument I'm using.

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#2159276 - 09/28/13 06:48 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Piano*Dad]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I would agree, if athdara owned the instrument. I get the sense, however, that s(he) merely has access to it. Putting a large amount of money into it for just a short period of use may not make sense if s(he) has access to the CLP-230 and/or a good practice instrument elsewhere (like the lonely church piano).

As it's her mother-in-law, it makes for an interesting conundrum. Some in-laws would take great offense if you offered to repair something, others would be delighted. Obviously if the family dropped that kind of money on a top grade instrument, it would be worthwhile to maintain it. How much use athdara would get out of it is unknown to us. However, if she plans to use it several hours a day for a year, repairing it would be a bargain, and certainly preferable to using a keyboard. Perhaps she could reach a deal where they split the cost 50/50 in exchange for her unlimited use during the coming year.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2159324 - 09/28/13 07:39 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
Thanks for all your replies. About $650usd was already spent repairing it 3-4 years ago, or so I've heard--it couldn't even produce sound. I was told that it was bought for my husband and sister-in-law to practice on when they were young, but they very quickly abandoned piano playing. Over the next few years, the piano was left untouched in a damp and humid basement which floods whenever it rains heavily (we receive a considerable amount of rainfall), thus the damage until the mom decided to salvage it. It's now in the living room.

She's hinted that she'd like her granddaughter (my niece)to use it in time, so I contemplated having the action regulated as well; at the same time, however, I've no idea when babies can start learning, but I'm guessing her lessons, if any, might start only in a few years, and I am ferociously saving money for a new piano-and more piano lessons- for when my husband and I move into our own apartment next year;) (In Sg, we wait about 3-4 years for new homes. Vast inconvenience. A friend of mine has to abandon her piano playing for a year & a half while she stays with her in-laws.) I don't think I'd want to negotiate a 50-50 with my mother-in-law; I'd gladly pay the cost since she's been so hospitable to me, but $650 is a lot of money...I might play on it for a few weeks more before deciding if it's worth the regulation. And yes, there's the CLP-230 on which I can play; I'm thankful I blindly decided to purchase it 2 years ago for night practice.

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#2159414 - 09/28/13 11:03 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Athdara, if you'd pop the lid and look inside, find the serial number and the model number. Most likely, the model is something like C116 or C120. It may have additional letters if it's a special finish. From this information, we can tell your when it was manufactured and what the current price of new models are. This information may help you reach a more informed decision.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2164475 - 10/10/13 02:48 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 487
Loc: Arvada, CO
My thought is to compare the cost of tuning, regulation, and repairs against the other alternatives.

The Schimmel upright is worth fixing up unless it was ruined by the water damage. What is the history of the basement floods? Was the piano submerged in standing water, or just exposed to humidity changes? The former is more likely to cause extensive damage.

Another alternative is to rent an acoustic piano. I don't know if this is commonly offered in Singapore. However, just piano moving costs would compare to the cost of doing the regulation. And then the rental fees on pianos (at least in my local market) are about $250-300/month.
_________________________
Colin Dunn

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#2165092 - 10/11/13 11:50 PM Re: No piano?? [Re: Athdara]
Athdara Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Singapore
Thanks John and Colin. I popped my head in, a few times over the past week just to make sure I didn't miss anything, and couldn't find the model number, but I measured its height and checked out Schimmel's website and I think it's a C120. I have the serial number though--where can I go to find out when it was manufactured?

The piano wasn't fully or even half-submerged; perhaps, at most, in water about an inch deep, but definitely exposed to humidity changes. The technician has tuned it a second time and fixed certain keys. It's quite wonderful to play on now, save some echoes/ ringing which I guess are typical of older pianos? I am not sure how to describe these extraneous sounds but the tech mentioned they're caused by vibrations against the iron frame and soundboard. These sounds are not that obvious in the newer pianos I've tried.

Sorry I have digressed; the above should be more suitable in the piano forum.

But back to lessons/ no lessons/ piano or no piano--now that I have access to a playable piano and know I can work on the digital...still, my lessons can't exactly start till next year due to overseas trips and my work schedule this year--I'd end up missing 2-3 lessons a month if I started now.

In the meantime, I've dug up pieces to learn/sight read e.g. simple, popular scores from musicals, Clementi's Sonatinas, Mozart's K545, keep playing my exam pieces and scales, and have tried to learn more ambitious pieces. Still, regardless of what I'm doing, at the back of my mind, I'm paranoid that I'm practicing using the wrong technique/ arm position, etc, and I worry that it'll be difficult to re-learn them if I continue doing what I'm doing, to the point that sometimes I think it's better to stay away from the piano until I can start lessons proper. E.g. I've gotten through the notes of the 1st few pages of Bach's Italian Concerto, some of Reinhold's Impromptu, some Chopin Nocturnes, but I know I'm playing them wrong and it was *really* difficult trying to re-learn Bach from scratch last time.

At the same time, I worry that my hiatus from the piano would set me back even more. I've tried to read up on techniques but can't seem to translate what I read to what I do at the piano, largely because I can't spot my own mistakes. It's like getting a kid to spot his grammatical errors and awkward expressions in his own composition. Should the kid continue writing (badly?) in the absence of a teacher?

Thanks for hearing my rumblings and paranoid concerns...

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