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I didn't mean that the Nocturne was the hardest piece -.- That was the point of my post, to show that it's always right to say that the hardest piece must be the one which is less often played well...
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I didn't mean that the Nocturne was the hardest piece -.- That was the point of my post, to show that it's always right to say that the hardest piece must be the one which is less often played well... Oh I guess that's what happens when I comment without reading everything :P
"If I decide to be an idiot, then I'll be an idiot on my own accord."
- Johann Sebastian Bach.
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(Usually when you really love a piece you never find a version that satisfies you, maybe that's the problem.) Not for me.
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(Usually when you really love a piece you never find a version that satisfies you, maybe that's the problem.) Not for me. Then you're a lucky fellow.
"If I decide to be an idiot, then I'll be an idiot on my own accord."
- Johann Sebastian Bach.
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In fact, what usually gets me to love a piece in the first place is hearing a performance that DOES satisfy me.
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That's the case for most pieces, but sometimes it's very disappointing that performers don't get as excited as you about a piece while playing. (Kind of hard to explain to somebody that never feels it... I give up.)
"If I decide to be an idiot, then I'll be an idiot on my own accord."
- Johann Sebastian Bach.
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Actually, who plays anything completely satisfactorily? I can't name a pianist who I think plays Chopin's Op 48 No 1 even close to satisfactorily; is that because it's the hardest piece Chopin ever wrote? Completely satisfactorily according to WHO ???  I'm sure if you do a little research you'll find several pianists who can do better than "close to satisfactorily" with the Opus 48 No. 1. And no - it isn't the hardest piece that Chopin ever wrote...but it IS a handful !!  Listened to every possible recording on youtube. Not a single one I find good enough... Maybe it's something wrong with the piece...  I don't know whether I should admire the refinement and elegant discernment of those who are never satisfied with performances that they hear - even by great musicians - or whether to be sorry that it appears that you cannot fully appreciate good performances for what they are, but always find them lacking. I, for one, must have less refinement in my demands and in my tastes than some of you, for I find that many, many performances please me to the degree that can I bask in them and enjoy them for what they are without feeling a lack in them for what they are not. Regards,
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
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That's great BruceD  I just think in a way, that some pieces are of such a high order, that they are better inside your head than when heard... It's sounds weird and it's hard to explain, but often the idea is better than the reality maybe?
Last edited by Franz Beebert; 09/29/13 04:33 PM.
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How can any amateur pianist(or even a high level professional)think they know more about how a piece should sound that any of the greatest pianists?
Do you actually think that if you had the technique to do whatever you wanted your interpretation would be superior, more beautiful, more exciting, etc. than any of those recorded by even the greatest pianists?
Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/29/13 05:03 PM.
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That's not what I am saying. I don't think you understand my point unfortunately. The whole thing about interpreting music and the difficulty about is, is to try understanding the real idea of the composer and the piece. Just as with everything; moral, ethics, art, human and god...
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No I don't think that. Because the beauty is within us: I would never be able to make the piece sound the way I want even if I was the greatest pianist on earth. That's why art is hard.
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That's not what I am saying. I don't think you understand my point unfortunately. The whole thing about interpreting music and the difficulty about is, is to try understanding the real idea of the composer and the piece. Just as with everything; moral, ethics, art, human and god... So you understand the real idea of the composer and the piece more than any of the greatest pianists?
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No. But I do understand the point of music, which is that the idea is even better than reality. The idea is always one, not thousands. There is one truth. But nobody can grasp it, just imitate it.
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Listen to that opera of Schoenberg! The whole message of that opera is just this(don't remember the name of the opera but maybe you know which one?): A man carries an idea, but he is not capable enough to show us his idea; so he gives the greatest interpreter of them all the job to show us this idea. But in the end, this interpreter can't, because it's not HIS idea. The idea becomes bad when shown in reality. Just like one can say that God had an idea about mankind and how mankind would be good: But in reality, mankind wasn't and isn't capable of being as good as she is in God's idea.
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Have you ever read Plato? If not, do it
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Listen to that opera of Schoenberg! The whole message of that opera is just this(don't remember the name of the opera but maybe you know which one?): A man carries an idea, but he is not capable enough to show us his idea; so he gives the greatest interpreter of them all the job to show us this idea. But in the end, this interpreter can't, because it's not HIS idea. The idea becomes bad when shown in reality. Just like one can say that God had an idea about mankind and how mankind would be good: But in reality, mankind wasn't and isn't capable of being as good as she is in God's idea. He composed four operas - which one are you thinking of (obviously not Moses und Aron) Erwartung Die glückliche Hand Moses und Aron Von heute auf morgen
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The whole thing about interpreting music and the difficulty about it, is to try understanding the real idea of the composer and the piece. We can try to understand the "real idea" of the composer and the piece, but only the composer knows (or knew) for sure. I remember watching a video of Aaron Copland playing his Piano Variations. I was surprised - and just a little amused - at his interpretation of the piece. My own understanding of the work (and apparently that of other pianists I've heard play it) was a tad different than Mr. Copland's. So who's right??? When Copland premiered the work himself back in 1931 at a meeting of the League of Composers in NYC, it was met with some indifference. Copland's hardness of touch seemed to alienate the critics...but apparently that's how he himself "perceived" the work - even though the written score implied something else. Of course - this really doesn't have much to do with Beethoven....or does it??
Last edited by carey; 09/29/13 07:24 PM.
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I've seen Chopin's large works ranked in groups of difficulty. Can someone do that with these Sonatas?
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The whole thing about interpreting music and the difficulty about it, is to try understanding the real idea of the composer and the piece. We can try to understand the "real idea" of the composer and the piece, but only the composer knows (or knew) for sure. I remember watching a video of Aaron Copland playing his Piano Variations. I was surprised - and just a little amused - at his interpretation of the piece. My own understanding of the work (and apparently that of other pianists I've heard play it) was a tad different than Mr. Copland's. So who's right??? When Copland premiered the work himself back in 1931 at a meeting of the League of Composers in NYC, it was met with some indifference. Copland's hardness of touch seemed to alienate the critics...but apparently that's how he himself "perceived" the work - even though the written score implied something else. Of course - this really doesn't have much to do with Beethoven....or does it?? Maybe sometimes the composer doesn't even know :O(joke)
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You mean Chopin's or Beethoven's Sonatas?
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