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#2159900 - 09/30/13 02:16 AM The more practice the smarter you get...
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2026
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum and Grillen and Mozart K 475 Fantasy C minor
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell


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#2159905 - 09/30/13 02:52 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
Michael Taylor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 365
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
I hope that learning to play an instrument helps to fight Alzheimer's!
_________________________
Piano obsession started November 2010.
Ragtime Butcher
Kayserburg U123
http://www.youtube.com/user/michaelt3032


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#2159908 - 09/30/13 02:56 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: Michael Taylor]
Newman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 700
Loc: Australia
I tend to believe it. The cognitive processes involved must be of benefit
_________________________
Guitar since 1966. Piano (Kawai DP80) since 2011.

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#2159916 - 09/30/13 03:56 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
Quote:
Participants who had spent more quality time with their instruments had “a better ability to detect errors and conflicts, and a reduced reactiveness to these detected problems.”

I like that: cultivating your ability to know when you've messed up, but without letting it mess you up further.

I can see why "reduced reactiveness to... detected problems" is associated with having spent more time seriously making music. It's a skill which has definitely taken it's time to grow within me, but I am finally finding myself getting better at releasing attachment to mistakes already past.

For some reason, that makes me think of this great video, of Chick Corea practising Bach. I love how he relates to his mistakes, as interesting opportunities to know the music better.

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#2159923 - 09/30/13 04:13 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3805
Loc: Northern England.
Could be right. Downside is, if you`re crazy to begin with . . . .musicians do have a reputation same as artists etc. It`s in their blood; artistic temperament.

Unfortunately, my Great Wise and Wonderful One doesn`t go along with this.
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#2159946 - 09/30/13 06:25 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1428
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Quite interesting.

“the present findings suggest that playing a musical instrument might improve the ability to monitor our behavior, and adjust our responses effectively when needed.”

"Improve" means you have already this ability, right?
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#2159962 - 09/30/13 07:44 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: CarlosCC]
malkin Offline
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Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: CarlosCC
"Improve" means you have already this ability, right?


You could be starting from a baseline of zero ability and improve to a level of ability greater than zero.
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A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2159970 - 09/30/13 08:19 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: peterws]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12147
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: peterws
Could be right. Downside is, if you`re crazy to begin with . . . .musicians do have a reputation same as artists etc. It`s in their blood; artistic temperament.

Unfortunately, my Great Wise and Wonderful One doesn`t go along with this.
LOL! It's true. That is why my husband is not a musician. There can only be one insane person in this relationship, and it's me! laugh
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#2159971 - 09/30/13 08:20 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Yes, I believe it. I think it goes along with the common medical knowledge of divergent thinking in general. That is that children are very good at it. As people age. They lose that. Older people generally lack divergent thinking entirely. I think it has to do with how a person uses their brain. This case seems to support that.
_________________________
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Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2160003 - 09/30/13 09:42 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: malkin]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1428
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Originally Posted By: malkin
Originally Posted By: CarlosCC
"Improve" means you have already this ability, right?


You could be starting from a baseline of zero ability and improve to a level of ability greater than zero.


Yes, it's true.
Or, you could be starting from a baseline grater than zero and improve to a higher level with ease.
What I mean is that you can practice over and over a task - and you'll see progress, of course! -, but it's better to born with some kind of "natural ability". It just turns the job easier and softer.
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#2160005 - 09/30/13 09:44 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: rnaple]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 631
Loc: Louisiana
Quote:
Re: The more practice the smarter you get...


Not sure practice shifts one's IQ upwardly grin .. likely not or not much.

Didn't see right brain/left brain or ear playing/sight reading distinctions mentioned, but I would say playing music any way that is enjoyable for you has to have a payoff ... like maybe being able to quickly refer a journalist to someone I know who has a mind like a steel trap. whome


Edited by Rerun (09/30/13 11:40 AM)
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Rerun

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#2160013 - 09/30/13 10:06 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2026
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
I am not sure if practice makes aging slower or making us smarter. But experience of music performance does seem to develop interesting skills.

The article made me think about it since I experienced car brake failure recently. I was coming home from Dog park and approaching the light. There were 3 cars parked there in front of me. I was driving slow, around 30. As soon as I pressed the brake to stop, I realized that it does not work. I was sliding. I pumped, put incredible pressures on and it did not work. I looked around the car and changed the gear to PARK position and continue to press the brake with all my might. The car finally stopped. it probably took fraction of a second. I was amazed how quickly I took all these actions. I did not panic and felt like I had infinite amount of time. Compared with performance where I often had to figure out a way to cover up my mistakes (or think where to jump to) in a fraction of the time and move on...

I did not have this ability until recently. I used not to be coordinated and it was one of many reasons my parents thought piano was good for me.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum and Grillen and Mozart K 475 Fantasy C minor
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell


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#2160028 - 09/30/13 10:48 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Yeah, I probably believe there is some truth to this, though the article implies the same, tired presumptive "correlation = causality" fallacy you can find every day if you read "Studies show..." news reports.

It's quite likely that people who log 5000 hours of sustained focus on a musical instrument are merely manifesting an already existent desire and ability to do so, too.
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

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#2160030 - 09/30/13 10:50 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1428
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
(...)I looked around the car and changed the gear to PARK position and continue to press the brake with all my might. The car finally stopped.

Nice move! thumb
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Youtube channel
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Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

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#2164464 - 10/10/13 02:08 PM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
piano_deb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 787
Loc: Memphis, TN
I found it interesting that both the Stroop and Simon tasks require the test subject to quickly process material that could be inherently confusing: The word "red" written in blue, left-handed tasks showing up on the right side of the screen, etc. Learning to read music and play an instrument poses similar difficulties. The eyes must read two (or more) staves of music, often ahead of the hands. Either hand might need to play notation from either staff. The hands have to learn to move independently, playing completely different notes, tempos, etc. Not to mention all the different key signatures, use of accidentals, grace notes, dynamics, etc.

To my mind, it's not surprising that musically trained/adept individuals would respond well to the tasks used in this study. I think it would be interesting to see how those skilled in quite different areas — engineers or athletes for instance — would do with the same tasks.

This sort of research fascinates me. Here's to future studies that prove reading and discussing articles about brain research helps to preserve/improve cognitive abilities. smile

---

tangleweeds, thanks very much for the Chick Corea video. It's like a four-minute lesson in how to practice piano. I used to practice the same thing over and over, and make the same mistakes over and over, until I realized I was simply practicing (and ingraining) my mistakes. Oops. Going more slowly helps, but I still tend to just play through flubs without really understanding how/what I've played incorrectly. It's inspirational how consistently and quickly Corea stops to figure out what needs fixing and how he then corrects/replays, often more slowly, until he eliminates every single flub completely. He's certainly not practicing his mistakes!
_________________________
Deborah
Charles Walter 1500
Happiness is a shiny red piano.

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#2164492 - 10/10/13 03:40 PM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
Sweet06 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 408
haha farm girl. i attribute all my video games to my similar reflexes!! the guy in front of me slammed his breaks on and time suddenly slowed down. i looked around my entire car, hit the breaks, turned to the left (car to the right of me) and completely avoided what could have been a serious accident all in under a second im sure. very scary!!
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"Doesn't practicing on the piano suck?!?!"
"The joy is in the practicing. It's like relationships. Yeah, orgasms are awesome, but you can't make love to someone who you have no relationship with!"

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#2164643 - 10/10/13 11:16 PM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: Sweet06]
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2026
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted By: Sweet06
haha farm girl. i attribute all my video games to my similar reflexes!! the guy in front of me slammed his breaks on and time suddenly slowed down. i looked around my entire car, hit the breaks, turned to the left (car to the right of me) and completely avoided what could have been a serious accident all in under a second im sure. very scary!!


Sweet06,
Should we dare to say "Piano saves life!" ?
We may be featured in the next articles.
Next thing we know, we may be interviewed on CNN.
Well then Steinway may want to sponsor a special program.
Wow this is big. I'm excited now.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum and Grillen and Mozart K 475 Fantasy C minor
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell


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#2164781 - 10/11/13 09:26 AM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: peterws]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1246
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: peterws
Could be right. Downside is, if you`re crazy to begin with . . .


_________________________

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#2164871 - 10/11/13 12:44 PM Re: The more practice the smarter you get... [Re: FarmGirl]
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1019
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Grieg, Papillon
Mozart, K 330
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