Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Single or Double Loop for Hitch Pin?

Sorry, I missed this.

not exactly, that is beautiful for a covered string but the twisting is traditionally found unnecessary for plain wire strings. just the winding is sufficient

Trying both types on a unison, "German" and "Chickering" in turn, might settle the matter if one type sounded better and sustained the higher partials for longer than the other.

On another '70's Bosendorfer I just examined, the tails,(tangs) finish up alongside the loop, almost touching.

Still, everything is neatly contained within the punching, 3.5 windings takes the winding to the edge of the punching and the tang has almost a continuous curve towards the loop.

I've just spent 15 minutes with a piece of wire trying to copy exactly how they did it. Its impossible to see the final movement and its results before he cuts it on the video. thats where the secret lies. I cannot even see the finished tang because it is behind the loop. but there is a decided curve as the tang comes away from the windings in the finished article

Dear RXD I described that at the begin of the thread, the last motion tighten the coils and shape the tail

if not they need to be twisted tight or they will not hold. I never seen them without at last one coil at the extremity

There is not tang when that kind of loop is used, . with the gig this is done automatically.

Yes!!!. Just like the strings on the piano that is partially visible in front and under the board that you have the samples on but more of a broad curve and slightly longer. . It's that broader curve that I couldn't get with just pliers but that's it, just so everything stays within the circumference of the punching. I farm put all my restringing but occasionally make the odd replacement.

Thanks, Isaac, I missed that.

The main thing is that the string excercises it's pull as low down the hitch pin as possible. A single loop is as close as can be to the plate. Do double and triple loops exercise pulling force higher up the hitchpin? That would be far less stable if it were so, at least in simplistic theory.

As I see it you know where the contact is with a single loop. You may not with double and triple loops. That may matter when seating the string at the hitch pin.

Yes, I wonder if the more springy termination have an impact on tone, but it is neat anyway.

the cut strings where replaced once partly, in some sections, on that Boesendorfer, about 10 years ago, the eyelets at the bottom are originals, the one at the top a mix

As they did not reshape the capo, the strings where breaking regularely, they all had to be changed once again.

Seem to me that on another one , from 1985 there where double looped , but I am probably wrong.

I suspect the most important thing is energy. If a termination dissipates energy it is not good. When reseating a string livens up a note more energy is going into the sound.

Which is exactly why I posted what I did about my Ibach. The string reaches the hitch-pin at quite a high position, and yet, it is one of the most stable uprights I know. (What's more, it's just told me that it also knows how to spell the name, Habsburg. )

Yes that is a factor that can even bend the pin, but stronger pin can be used, as it is probably the case with the double loop.

the force of the string is not so much higher with the double loop.

Surely unless someone has inverted the string, it matters not whether it's strung with single, double or triple coils. The main point as already identified by others here, is that the exit of the string touches the frame where it can handle most tension without fear of ever bending the hitch pin. Only if the string is inverted will it sit further up the hitch pin.

Yes, I agree Johnkie, but do they all always sound the same? Single coils work so why introduce complications unless they improve the sound?

Preferences (Regarding tails)?:

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Edit: Or 'E' - none of the above.

This is not congress! Your vote will be heard! Chuck

Not sure whether it is any more complicated Ian, just a matter of doing things slightly differently. I always try to copy whatever has previously been done when re-stringing but to be perfectly honest, have never noticed any improvement or reduction in tone when comparing these different methods of string attachments. The common use of listing braid in between the strings damps off most transferred sounds that may otherwise reach the hitch pins anyhow, as do felt washers under the coils, so I personally can't see any point in worrying about it unduly.

No tail , for me, in that case as when those eyeletts are used there is no rest place for tails, the coils are outside the plate (the ones I noticed use that setup)

The last version without tail is OK for me.

If too much twisted, the wire will break when tense, also (A & C)

Chuck - for what it's worth I personally don't like any of them. There is little point in having tails with this type of hitch pin looping. I will however add that I have on occasions found that this type of winding can tend to weaken the steel unless done with the expertise of an experienced string maker, causing failure at either the loop or in some cases, the long winding itself.

I have never seen such failures when normal single or double coils have been emloyed.

That's interesting, the string is held up off the plate by the first winding and the tang. I can only assume it is intentional although there are many stories of operatives being taught a certain way on their first day and then coming back from lunch and doing everything the opposite way. In a case like this it would have been left as is.

Ibach had some nice ideas and I have a feeling it would have been intentional.
Are there cloth or brass punchings?

I only see two Ibachs and they both stay in tune for ever so I don't know when I'll see one next but I'll certainly look with interest.

Chuck, out of what you have pictured, I would vote for A. But, as others have alluded, with the tang, you don't necessarily need those last tight windings, or, vice versa.

In my experience with the Shout House K&C's, the windings and tang did prevent the string from seating on the plate, but it appeared to have no detrimental affect. FWIW...