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#2160959 - 10/02/13 07:46 PM Adult Learner Survey
nickadams Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 14
I would like to take an innocuous and arbitrary survey to satiate my own curiosity.

If you...

1.) Started playing music for the first time at 18+ years old.
2.) Have been playing for 4 years or more.
3.) Comfortably play grade 6-7 pieces.

... I would really appreciate if you would post in this thread.



If you don't fit these criteria, just ignore this thread; it's merely a survey.


Edited by nickadams (10/03/13 10:35 AM)

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#2161004 - 10/02/13 10:55 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Can you give some examples of grade 6-7 pieces? I don't play classical music and am not familiar with the grading system. I could tell you the hardest Einaudi pieces I'm able to play, but I'm not sure that would be helpful. smile

Welcome to the forum, by the way. smile
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2161037 - 10/03/13 02:18 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: Monica K.]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Majority of new age piano compositions fit in the range of grade 6/7, with the hardest ones occasionally in grade 8, and occasional easy ones in grade 4/5.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2161041 - 10/03/13 02:35 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: Monica K.]
peekay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 184
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Can you give some examples of grade 6-7 pieces?

If the OP meant ABRSM grades, then you can see the latest syllabus for examples:

http://ca.abrsm.org/fileadmin/user_upload/syllabuses/pianoSyllabusComplete13.pdf

For RCM grades, maybe subtract a grade or two for the equivalent ABRSM grade. E.g., RCM 8 is approximately ABRSM 7.
_________________________
Working on RCM Grade 8

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#2161044 - 10/03/13 02:59 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: Monica K.]
nickadams Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 14
I'm sorry Monika K. but I just saw you had accordian lessons for 7 years as a child... that kind of disqualifies you

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#2161078 - 10/03/13 06:34 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11657
Loc: Canada
We're probably all disqualified.

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#2161111 - 10/03/13 09:02 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
carolinagirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 54
It seems to me if you have been playing for over 4 years and can play grade 6-7 pieces, you really aren't a beginner anymore?
_________________________
Yamaha CLP 440 Delivered on April 16 2013
Started playing piano April 16 2013

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#2161112 - 10/03/13 09:06 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 843
[RESPONSE DELETED]



Edited by Brent H (10/03/13 06:42 PM)
_________________________
Current Life+Music Philosophy: Less Thinking, More Foot Tapping

Ars Longa, Vita Brevis

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#2161116 - 10/03/13 09:28 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1412
Loc: Georgia, USA
Every summer we have an ABF survey. While it doesn't specifically answer the poster's question, it does make for some interesting reading.

Here's the 2013 ABF survey

Sam

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#2161132 - 10/03/13 10:32 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: carolinagirl]
nickadams Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: carolinagirl
It seems to me if you have been playing for over 4 years and can play grade 6-7 pieces, you really aren't a beginner anymore?


I see what you mean... I have changed the title to adult learner. The reason I put adult beginner is because I specifically want to hear from people who began playing music for the first time as adults.

@SamS: Thank you so much for that link! But I wish in the "how would you describe your playing" category, things were broken down by those who started playing music as adults versus those who are returning.


And people can you please keep the ancillary discussion to keystring's "what makes good progress" thread rather than in here? I am really trying to find people who fit the criteria in the OP. I realize I can't control what or where people post, but I just ask you to respect that I'm trying to take a survey.

So if you fit the criteria, please chime in!


Edited by nickadams (10/03/13 10:36 AM)

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#2161225 - 10/03/13 01:55 PM Re: Adult Learner Survey [Re: nickadams]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11657
Loc: Canada
I'm going to make some observations and then I will shut up.

Since this thread has gone up not a single person who matches the criteria has told their story (yet). There may be a reason.

Second point: This is not just a random survey out of curiosity, like wanting to know how many people own cats with brown spots. You're trying to reach things in music like all of us, and the results should be helping you in some ways.

I actually fit your criteria for the first instrument for which I had lessons. I started from scratch as an older adult, and in my first year I went from preliminary to mid-grade 4. Some of the pieces I played were designated "grade 7" and it was within that timeframe. Somewhere along the line I also learned that even high grade pieces can be played in a low grade manner, if you will. I also learned that getting at skills, approaches - at basic things - bring you much further. It seems slower, but it is faster.

In conclusion, reaching a high grade faster may not be a good thing. A lot in this experience was not good. Yes, definitely listen to stories of those who fit your criteria, but don't restrict yourself to that vision. The men and women in this forum have a wealth of different experience. We are learning from each other. Don't shut yourself out of that, regardless to what happens in this survey. smile

A note about disqualifying people who played other instruments. Is that necessarily an advantage? You have to perceive music in a different way, and let go of what you did before.

Finally, if someone spent any time earlier teaching themselves, or being mistaught, then this person is not ahead of beginners - he is behind. Undoing wrong things that you have entrenched is much harder than getting the right things in from the start. Every time you look at a score (if you learned to read in any fashion), every time you move to play a single note, your wrongly acquired habits pull you in the wrong way. You are even "deaf and blind" to the more helpful things, because what you have always done shouts over that. Therefore when you disqualify these people, you are also missing out on stories of people who are overcoming huge obstacles.

In case your survey is for more than curiosity, I have made these points once only. I will be reading the stories, if any come in, of people who match your criteria. We can always learn from anything. smile


Edited by keystring (10/03/13 01:56 PM)

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#2161300 - 10/03/13 04:49 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 588
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: nickadams

I am really trying to find people who fit the criteria in the OP. I realize I can't control what or where people post, but I just ask you to respect that I'm trying to take a survey.


It's just a bit hard to understand WHY you insist on these criteria, because it will limit the amount of answers you'll get a lot and it is not necessarily relevant to your quest. It is quite common for children to try out an instrument for a while, never learn much and then quit. I think that's one reason why so many of us are restarters. It's different if one has been playing a little every now and then, but I never even touched a keyboard for about 30 years. IMO it really makes little difference whether someone has played the piano a little bit some decades ago. Despite what people may say, it's not like riding a bike...And most of those who stopped early never really got very far.

For me the only advantage of studying piano long time ago was knowing a little bit of notation and music theory and being able to read a little (badly). Apart from that I was just as much a complete beginner on the piano as anyone else. Had to start on grade 1 pieces first. I've seen some complete beginners in their 20s or 30s progress much faster than me, probably because they are more physically able.

With this background I am fairly confident that after getting all the things together I will be able to play some grade 6-7 pieces quite well after 4 years. I could already play a few grade 6 pieces not so well after 2 years. So a complete beginner can certainly achieve that as well with a good teacher and enough smart practice.

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#2161313 - 10/03/13 05:11 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: outo]
nickadams Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: outo
So a complete beginner can certainly achieve that as well with a good teacher and enough smart practice.



I agree. And the point of this thread is to provide examples of people like this.

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#2161316 - 10/03/13 05:20 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 588
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: nickadams
Originally Posted By: outo
So a complete beginner can certainly achieve that as well with a good teacher and enough smart practice.



I agree. And the point of this thread is to provide examples of people like this.



As I said I have seen it happen and know a couple, but unfortunately those examples are real life people, not available online smile

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#2161511 - 10/04/13 01:13 AM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: nickadams
Originally Posted By: outo
So a complete beginner can certainly achieve that as well with a good teacher and enough smart practice.



I agree. And the point of this thread is to provide examples of people like this.



There are far better - as well as more humble - ways to go about researching said examples. For example, humbly expressing your doubts and concerns and simply inquiring for examples or prior discussions of examples could easily attract a great many more member's participation here. Your prerequisites to posting/contributing are off-putting and - presumably unintentionally - convey a certain closed-mindedness and narcissism. Many of us beginners/adult learners here have been in your same shoes with your same concerns and doubts and have put a lot of time into the same research and would happily share upon polite request.

Oh, and while you tactfully inserted the keyword "innocuous" (which doesn't go unappreciated), your corresponding precluding the solicitation of posts from a large percentage of members pretty much nullifies it.


Edited by Bobpickle (10/04/13 01:20 AM)

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#2161764 - 10/04/13 02:40 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
nickadams Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 14
I just found a thread on ABRSM that is very similar to this one:

http://www.abrsm.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t36344.html


Here is a response I found particularly relevant to my situation:
Originally Posted By: and36y
I am currently studying grade 8 at the age of 43, I started playing when I was 23. I have had "holding pattern" times where I've kept playing, but not improved. This has been due to the pressures and commitment of life. Anyway here I am hoping to take my grade 8 in the autumn if not next spring. My goal is diploma and beyond. whether I make it or not, I'll have a damn good go.
I think the biggest restriction to any adult is practice time. If you have a young family and work during the day, trying to fit meaningful practice in before tiredness takes over is a task on its own. I feel if I could practice as a child could I would not be restricted by my age. I took my grade 5 theory 10 years ago, I am currently re-revising it with the intention of going upto grade 8 theory. Why? because I can and its there.

When I first started I remember being convinced that my ability would be limited due to age, and that thought alone would hamper improvement. When I could't do a scale upto speed, it would be due to age. when a particular bar troubled me, age again. I now know, it is practice that ures these issues. If you can devote the time and be conscientous with the time you do have you will not find a ceiling within the grading system.


This is extremely motivating for me; I am so glad I stumbled onto that thread and I hope it can inspire some people here too.


Edited by nickadams (10/04/13 02:41 PM)

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#2161779 - 10/04/13 03:20 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: nickadams]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11657
Loc: Canada
.


Edited by keystring (10/04/13 08:09 PM)

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#2161780 - 10/04/13 03:29 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: keystring]
peekay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 184
Originally Posted By: keystring

Speaking for myself, this thread is generally unmotivating, uninspiring, and discouraging. Our experiences don't count. The hardships any of us went through aren't real. The successes we struggled toward don't count. ...

Sorry, but what a load of ****. Nick is looking for others in his same situation and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Nick: I hope you continue your studies and find the motivation & inspiration that you need. Don't let the overwhelming negativity and drama around here affect you.
_________________________
Working on RCM Grade 8

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#2161827 - 10/04/13 05:27 PM Re: Adult Beginner Survey [Re: peekay]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11657
Loc: Canada
.


Edited by keystring (10/04/13 08:09 PM)

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