Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Calculator Looks Like Piano Keyboard
Calculator that looks like a piano keyboard
Piano Keyboard Calculator

New in the Piano World online store (PianoSupplies.com) now.
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
100 registered (AndrewJCW, akurei, alwatson, 36251, Alexander Hanysz, 21 invisible), 1562 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2161056 - 10/03/13 04:22 AM Renner action on antique upright
Kiwisda Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 11
Hi. Ever since selling my 1888 Lipp upright (made in Germany; company founded in 1831)) some years ago I've been in mourning. I've now latched onto an identical piano (it might be, perhaps, one year younger). These pianos are about 150cm high (some 60"), with a terrific bass and mellow treble. I have two questions, however, regarding upright actions, and I hope someone can help me with these.
(1) Going backwards chronologically, when would you say upright actions had really not "arrived"? That is, they were noticeable inferior to subsequent action designs. I have been able to find very little on this on the internet.
(2) Can Renner actions be made for an old piano like this? I know Renner make them for many current piano makers, but I wonder if you can simply get them for an 1888 model.
I know Lipps are not well known in the States. But they are certainly well known (and extremely highly regarded) by tuners in Britain and her former colonies: that's why I'm submitting this post in the technicians forum.
Thanks everyone.

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2161073 - 10/03/13 06:03 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1151
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Old Lipps are fairly common in my area. They are highly regarded and I put them in the same class as old Ronish, Feurich and Gors and Kallman. From about the time of your piano they seemed to be transitioning from having very long bass strings strung at a very diagonal angle, to those having more conventional stringing.
Nobody would make new actions for these pianos. If your is worn out then the best thing is to try to find a technician who will recondition the action as far as appropriate - and then, only if the rest of the piano is worthy. It may have some unconventional design. An old-piano-freindly tuner should be able to advise you.
I have come across a more modern Lipp from about the 1960s. Sadly, it was no patch on the older pianos.
_________________________
Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

Top
#2161074 - 10/03/13 06:05 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Hello I am not sure the actions for so tall pianos are yet produced. May be some are availeable from stock.

I believe the maximum size was 1.40 m

Now more standard actions can be modified with long wooden dowels that goes in a cylindrical hole in the keys, with a flat head screw to regulate the play.

It happens that old actions where made in first grade material, but all felts, leathers, cloths, centers, springs etc are pieces that do not age correctly and this is very expensive to change anything.

Modern actions are also intended for more massive hammers and they are a little more massive themselves.

design wise, some of them where yet "modern" in 1880, but many where not positioned correctly, use far than ideal dimensions and ratios. I believe vertical actions begin to be more consistent and viable around 1920.
_________________________
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Top
#2161485 - 10/04/13 12:05 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Kiwisda
](1) Going backwards chronologically, when would you say upright actions had really not "arrived"? That is, they were noticeable inferior to subsequent action designs. I have been able to find very little on this on the internet.
It is not specifically a matter of date. There are piano actions from the late 1880s which lack nothing in terms of repetition, control and responsiveness, when functioning as designed.

Quote:
(2) Can Renner actions be made for an old piano like this? I know Renner make them for many current piano makers, but I wonder if you can simply get them for an 1888 model.
Almost any old piano can be fitted with a new modern action. Simply? Not necessarily - it can be quite involved and costly. Renner makes only two basic actions for uprights. The larger one is fitted into all pianos larger than about 120 cm. The only variable on the larger style is the height of the wippen heel. For tall pianos, abstracts are required, and they would have been in place originally.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention Norfolk
PTG Convention Norfolk
#2161501 - 10/04/13 12:36 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 23937
Loc: Oakland
Some very old vertical actions are as advanced as anything you can get now.

If I were dealing with your piano, I would make the original action work as well as possible. Chances are I could get it to work as well as any replacement.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2161570 - 10/04/13 04:52 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Piano and action makers where aware of pressure on bearings, direction of forces, conjugate profiles etc, but this was investigated really and more optimal solutions find since 1900 and more.

That interesting to read that Grotrian Steinweg was yet looking for less constrain on the whippen bearings in 1905, something they still do today.

The tall version of Renner actions , with abstracts, where intended for a certrain maximum distance between keybed and strike point.

Chances are that a 150cm tall piano is off limits.
_________________________
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Why Do YOU Play the Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Helping you become a better player
(ad)
Defining National Piano Schools
Defining National Piano Schools
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Summertime physics puzzler
by Robert Scott
07/27/16 09:46 AM
To share or not to share?
by Dave Androos
07/27/16 07:45 AM
What's normally taught in jazz piano lessons?
by pianopap
07/27/16 06:57 AM
The 3 you always come back to?
by 36251
07/27/16 06:26 AM
Target EMTECH EM6600 Raven Black Lacquer
by vsi1600
07/27/16 12:54 AM
Forum Stats
84,442 Registered Members
44 Forums
174,165 Topics
2,543,376 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission