Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2162873 - 10/07/13 06:07 AM Regulating Birdcage Action
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
Anyone got an old book with the procedure for regulating a birdcage action? The dampers need adjusting but I'm quite sure I need to start from elsewhere first - maybe the capstan screws? I saw a little book in a Halifax bookstore but he wanted 30 or 40 bucks for it! I tried to memorize the page, duh.

Top
(ad PTG 568) Win a Year Journal Subscription
PTG 57th Annual Convention - Atlanta
#2162911 - 10/07/13 08:59 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2034
Loc: Maine
Start with proper key dip. If that isn't right you'll likely be changing things that shouldn't be messed with.

I like to do fine regulation on birdcage pianos with a sledge hammer. smirk
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

Top
#2162926 - 10/07/13 09:34 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1620
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: chopin_r_us
Anyone got an old book with the procedure for regulating a birdcage action? The dampers need adjusting but I'm quite sure I need to start from elsewhere first - maybe the capstan screws? I saw a little book in a Halifax bookstore but he wanted 30 or 40 bucks for it! I tried to memorize the page, duh.


The older American School of Piano Tuning home study course had a page or two lesson devoted to this. Perhaps someone who has one of these might share the info with you? This isn't a recommendation. Don't know whether the method works or not. But it is a place to start. Good luck smile
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicć

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

Top
#2163030 - 10/07/13 01:52 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 688
Loc: England
Regulate the whole action and keys first ... without the dampers attached. Then regulate the pedal damper lift (making sure the wires are not making contact with the under-levers but still inserted into the bushings), and then finally regulating the action damper lift by means of adjusting the wires.

The difficult part is regulating the pedal lift, where the need is to either move the damper heads closer or further away from the strings by means of the "L" shaped damper wire fixtures whilst keeping the heads lined up so as not to catch the hammer heads in the treble section when the pedal is used.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

Top
#2163075 - 10/07/13 04:42 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
Thanks. That's very helpful.

Top
#2163190 - 10/07/13 10:22 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
I would sooner touch my Ex Wife than a bird cage action!
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

Top
#2163209 - 10/07/13 11:16 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
Whoever invented the bird cage paino should be crucified. You can't properly tune or regulate it. In my younger days, I would work on them. I don't need the money quite as much. I have more important pianos to service
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

Top
#2163214 - 10/07/13 11:24 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21255
Loc: Oakland
Except for the dampers and anything else which became obsolete, birdcage actions are regulated just like other vertical actions. The damper regulation would be the same, but the places where you make adjustments are different.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2163224 - 10/07/13 11:57 PM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
If you love bird cage action pianos so much, have at it. Maybe you could be a bird cage piano specialist
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

Top
#2163273 - 10/08/13 04:03 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Johnkies method of taking the damper unit off entirely to regulate, even raise the pitch quickly is good. Some of the actions are kinda strange looking but anybody with some sense of mechanics and understanding of upright actions in general will quickly figure it out.

Many of them can be appreciably better than they initially seem to have any right to be within their limitations, if you have the time and patience to spend with one.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#2163274 - 10/08/13 04:10 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
Someone directed me to this site: http://www.davidboyce.co.uk/birdcage-pianos.php

Great site - I never knew birdcages went into the 50's! At the end of a fascinating page his conclusion is: 'Don't buy one, and if you own one, don't expect that it can be improved.' and I do agree, but mine are special.

The thing with them is that the damping is by gravity - that's organic, I like that.

Top
#2163286 - 10/08/13 05:08 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 688
Loc: England
Over-damper actions may not be everyone's favourite instrument to work on, but they have been around for a long time, and many remain in need of regular tuning here in the UK. I normally have at least one or two to tune every week ... sometimes more!

Contrary to belief of some, most are perfectly capable of being regulated and tuned very well, however the only major drawback is their poor damping qualities in the higher treble sections where the dampers are so close to the top bridge.

I get the impression that many vehemently dislike them due to the perceived difficulty of muting off when tuning .... those that are established in the use of muting felt strips. The way forward with tuning these over-dampers is to use a papps wedge, tuning unisons as one goes .... it take a little practice but when mastered it takes no longer than any other tuning method.

I get immense satisfaction tuning concert grands and being able to satisfy some of the worlds most demanding pianists, but it's a bit like having too much fillet steak unless you are served up egg and chips occasionally to highlight the difference in quality!

On reflection though .... I suppose it's like "marmite" you either love them or hate them ! wink
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

Top
#2163296 - 10/08/13 06:06 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
My egg 'n chips has a true una chorda. As it's bichord, don't need no wedges.

Top
#2163349 - 10/08/13 09:23 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 688
Loc: England
That's interesting C R us ..... are you saying that when using the soft pedal it actually moves the hammers across so that only one string is struck ? I've seen that type of action before but only ever on a full trichord model.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

Top
#2163367 - 10/08/13 10:12 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: chopin_r_us]
LluĂ­s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 313
Loc: Barcelona,Spain, European Unio...
Chopin r us is your piano a Pleyel or Broadwood bichord??
_________________________
1942 Challen Baby Grand Piano

1855 Pleyel Pianino (Restoring -> www.pleyelrestoration.blogspot.com )

Top
#2163369 - 10/08/13 10:14 AM Re: Regulating Birdcage Action [Re: Johnkie]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
Yep. Wornum probably didn't know any better. I assume the idea of moving the hammers closer to simulate una corda hadn't arrived yet.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
LAST CALL - Piano Newsletter Ideas!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
138 registered (AimeeO, a-z0-9, accordeur, 44 invisible), 1657 Guests and 26 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75495 Members
42 Forums
156109 Topics
2292464 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha P255
by pianist.ame
Today at 09:12 PM
Just Tried Brand New Mason and Hamlins....
by Paul678
Today at 09:10 PM
Broken Butt Plate - Replacement part?
by musicNow
Today at 08:24 PM
Liszt's letters to Jessie Laussot
by Michael Sayers
Today at 07:59 PM
Good popular and classical songs for a piano gig?
by Tony Romo
Today at 07:13 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission