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#2167842 - 10/17/13 07:17 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Chris Storch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 189
Loc: Massachusetts
Chuck,

I mentioned that I like to get the same camera angle, lighting, etc. in my before and after pics. But you seem to be the master. You even got the dog is in the same place before and after. LOL

Nice work. Thanks for sharing.
_________________________
Chris Storch
Acoustician / Piano Technician

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#2167850 - 10/17/13 07:34 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Beautiful, Chuck. Now I see why someone would buy one of those new.

It wasn't so apparent to me in the before photo, but it's interesting how that cabinet design hearkens back to square grands.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2167858 - 10/17/13 07:55 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7235
Loc: Rochester MN
Chuck,

The Chickering is magnificent.

How does the baby sound?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2167875 - 10/17/13 09:23 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
PaintedPostDave Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 520
Loc: Upstate New York
Removed because it was so off topic.


Edited by PaintedPostDave (10/18/13 09:44 AM)
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

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#2167904 - 10/17/13 11:18 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
Chuck Behm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 662
Loc: Boone, Iowa, USA

Quote:
"It wasn't so apparent to me in the before photo, but it's interesting how that cabinet design hearkens back to square grands." - Jim Boydston


Hi Jim - You're right, it very much does, especially when it's closed up. A pretty nifty design!

[img:center]http://[/img]

She's all ready to go home tomorrow, along with a couple other pianos we've finished. We'll have some elbow room, for once! Chuck
_________________________
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke

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#2167909 - 10/17/13 11:29 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
Chuck, you do excellent work! A closed grained finish, and attention to details. I like it alot.
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Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2167938 - 10/18/13 12:49 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: PaintedPostDave]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: PaintedPostDave
Hi Chuck. Thanks for starting this thread.

Regarding your interest in brass, please take a look at a porch lamp that is now mounted upside down on a scrap 2x6. It was the porch light for my 110 year old house that I replaced with motion activated lights. It was painted black or it had turned black with what (oxidation?). Anyway, I started trying brass cleaner and then abrasive buffing using my Dremel tool. It is kind of hard to see but it looks to me as though the pieces were hammered into shape because each of the side brackets are different. They are also quite pitted and dented (from the hammering?) which can't be seen in the pictures.

Do you have any suggestions for further processing of the brass? Is there a strong chemical that can remove the black oxidation or paint from the pits. I have already tried a strong paint stripper.

Thanks.

Sorry for being off topic.


It looks like you removed the patination of the finish, which is not what most people would want. You should consult a metalsmith or plating expert to discuss what can be done with it. The person who has done my plating has expertise in this, but he has stopped doing plating, and I am not certain whether he still does that sort of work.
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Semipro Tech

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#2167945 - 10/18/13 01:07 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Gary Fowler]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1623
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Gary Fowler
Chuck, you do excellent work! A closed grained finish, and attention to details. I like it alot.


Ditto!
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicæ

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

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#2167952 - 10/18/13 01:49 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Chuck Behm

Quote:
"It wasn't so apparent to me in the before photo, but it's interesting how that cabinet design hearkens back to square grands." - Jim Boydston


Hi Jim - You're right, it very much does, especially when it's closed up. A pretty nifty design!

[img:center]http://[/img]

She's all ready to go home tomorrow, along with a couple other pianos we've finished. We'll have some elbow room, for once! Chuck



With it all closed up, it could double as a sideboard...

laugh
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2167964 - 10/18/13 02:32 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 465
Loc: CO, USA
Hello Mr. Behm,

I thought this in your photo was pretty fascinating too, a wooden compartment box in a cloth suitcase. It has a japanesque feel about it:



Best regards-


Edited by phacke (10/18/13 02:32 AM)
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2168005 - 10/18/13 07:19 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Chuck Behm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 662
Loc: Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote:
"Chuck,The Chickering is magnificent. How does the baby sound? - Minnesota Marty"


Hi Marty - The sound is adequate, but not outstanding. The touch is very responsive, but somewhat light. All in all, very playable, but nothing like my U-1 for example. But, for a 107 year old spinet . . .

The tone would be considerably improved, I believe, with new hammers and strings. The customer, however, opted for a middle of the road estimate that I gave, with the option of revisiting a more complete job down the road.

Ordinarily (unless the customer has made it clear up-front what they want as far as a price range), I write up three estimates, ranging from just getting the piano up and running to more of a "dream" list of everything that we could do to put the piano back into like new condition.

Finances were the main consideration in deciding what to keep on the list and what to leave off. The price of the repairs which were done totaled approximately half of what the full quote was. Although I would prefer to do everything at one go-around, I would be happy to finish the job at a later date, if it works out better financially for the customer that way.

I'm sorry, Marty - a longer answer I'm sure than what you were looking for. I should have just said "It sounds nice, plays great!" and left it at that. Chuck
_________________________
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke

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#2168014 - 10/18/13 07:41 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: BDB]
Chuck Behm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 662
Loc: Boone, Iowa, USA

Quote:
"Regarding your interest in brass, please take a look at a porch lamp that is now mounted upside down on a scrap 2x6. It was the porch light for my 110 year old house that I replaced with motion activated lights. It was painted black or it had turned black with what (oxidation?). Anyway, I started trying brass cleaner and then abrasive buffing using my Dremel tool. It is kind of hard to see but it looks to me as though the pieces were hammered into shape because each of the side brackets are different. They are also quite pitted and dented (from the hammering?) which can't be seen in the pictures." - Dave Koenig


Hi Dave - I'm no expert on the subject, so I'll just explain what I do. BDB's cautions may very well be adviseable - again, seek the advise of an expert if it's not turning out the way you would like.

Anyway, for solid brass (not plated) pieces, I first start by removing the oxidation, tarnish, old finish etc. I usually try my wire brush wheel on a low setting on some inconspicuous spot. With some brass work, however, this seems to pit the metal - in which case I go to my next method, which is to either sand or steel wool off the tarnish.

On flat surfaces, I sand starting with 400 grit, and working through the grits all the way to 2500 grit. The most work is done with the 400 grit paper. After that, it's just a bit of sanding with each of the in between grits to smooth out the surface.

On uneven surfaces, I use steel wool, starting with #1 coarseness, and then going to 00 then 0000 grade.

After cleaning, I buff with a cloth wheel using red tripoli polish. On surfaces where the wheel doesn't work, I use a soft cloth with the same polish.

Once this is done, I finish by 3 coating with spray clear lacquer.

This approach does not preserve any patina, but that's not what I'm after.

If you want a more informed discussion, Dave, why don't you start a separate thread? I'm sure there are those who have a lot more knowledge on the subject, and it would make for an interesting topic. I'd like to learn more, myself. Chuck
_________________________
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke

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#2168028 - 10/18/13 08:42 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7235
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Chuck,

I actually appreciate the detailed answer. I was making the assumption that the piano had been totally rebuilt as there was so much attention paid to the cabinetry. I hope that the owners will ultimately decide to complete the process. The older Chickering consoles, when rebuilt by a craftsman/artisan who knows what they are doing, turn out to be quite delightful instruments.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2168030 - 10/18/13 08:53 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7235
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
With it all closed up, it could double as a sideboard...

Jim - Don't even think about it.

We are all aware that you are the master of various uses for the horizontal surfaces of a piano. As Julia Child once commented; "A roasted suckling pig is a beautiful way to present a perfect apple." However, a piano should not be the pedestal for the silver tray, holding the pig, and displaying the apple!

_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2168040 - 10/18/13 09:13 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Chuck Behm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 662
Loc: Boone, Iowa, USA

Quote:
"Jim - Don't even think about it.We are all aware that you are the master of various uses for the horizontal surfaces of a piano. As Julia Child once commented; "A roasted suckling pig is a beautiful way to present a perfect apple." However, a piano should not be the pedestal for the silver tray, holding the pig, and displaying the apple!" - Marty


Hi again Marty - My thought when I closed the piano all up was that my twin grandsons would love it for racing their HotWheels back and forth on! Chuck
_________________________
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke

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#2168041 - 10/18/13 09:16 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7235
Loc: Rochester MN
Egads!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2168320 - 10/19/13 01:16 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
You guys are cracking me up!

Okay, got my first before/after installment for you; fresh from today.

For any who don't know, the current pianos at the Shout House are a pair of Brodmann CE-175's the club bought new a year ago last June. That's right, what you're about to see is only a year and a half old.

They've been getting pretty shrill lately. They opted for the hard hammer option when they ordered the pianos - with my concurrence - so they weren't pretty-sounding to start with. So, I recommended resurfacing.

The grooves in the bichords were the deepest, at something like 1/8". The yellowish mung you see on the trichords is residue worn off the back checks; it accumulates on the striking points of the hammers and the damper felts.









I think they came out okay. The sound was of course much warmer.






Additionally, these are how the knuckles look, after only a year and a half:





I love this gig...



Edited by OperaTenor (10/19/13 01:16 AM)
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2168356 - 10/19/13 05:03 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7178
Loc: France
Hi Jim , thanks for the pics.

AT that point I would call it "reshaping" yet.

Using regularly powdered Teflon or talcum on the knuckles avoid that graphite contamination and protect the "leather" someho(they must be Escain).

Good hammer spacing (one is travelling left in the mediums)
You voiced them to enlarge fundamental and limit hardness is not it ?


Edited by Olek (10/19/13 05:10 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2168469 - 10/19/13 11:39 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7235
Loc: Rochester MN
I would like to suggest a name alteration to the owners of the fine establishment to which you are of service:

** Ye Olde Shout House **
Home of the Well Pounded Klaviers

_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2168703 - 10/19/13 10:16 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Olek]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Olek
Hi Jim , thanks for the pics.

AT that point I would call it "reshaping" yet.

Using regularly powdered Teflon or talcum on the knuckles avoid that graphite contamination and protect the "leather" someho(they must be Escain).

Good hammer spacing (one is travelling left in the mediums)
You voiced them to enlarge fundamental and limit hardness is not it ?


True, Isaac. I think I'm just trying to be generous... wink

Yes, I saw that hammer. It turns out, on these 'fine' actions (yes, i'm being sarcastic), the center pins bend. As I was reshaping, I was leaving bent center pins in my wake, and had to reset a lot of spacing.

I'm pretty sure no one's had much experience working on these Chinese Brodmann actions yet. They seem like junk to me.

I have not yet come to see the light with teflon powder yet... laugh
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2168704 - 10/19/13 10:17 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Minnesota Marty]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I would like to suggest a name alteration to the owners of the fine establishment to which you are of service:

** Ye Olde Shout House **
Home of the Well Pounded Klaviers



If you ever come to Sandy Eggo, you have *got* to check this place out.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2168728 - 10/20/13 12:14 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
Yes, I saw that hammer. It turns out, on these 'fine' actions (yes, i'm being sarcastic), the center pins bend. As I was reshaping, I was leaving bent center pins in my wake, and had to reset a lot of spacing.

I'm pretty sure no one's had much experience working on these Chinese Brodmann actions yet. They seem like junk to me.




shocked
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#2168769 - 10/20/13 03:03 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7178
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
Originally Posted By: Olek
Hi Jim , thanks for the pics.

AT that point I would call it "reshaping" yet.

Using regularly powdered Teflon or talcum on the knuckles avoid that graphite contamination and protect the "leather" someho(they must be Escain).

Good hammer spacing (one is travelling left in the mediums)
You voiced them to enlarge fundamental and limit hardness is not it ?


True, Isaac. I think I'm just trying to be generous... wink

Yes, I saw that hammer. It turns out, on these 'fine' actions (yes, i'm being sarcastic), the center pins bend. As I was reshaping, I was leaving bent center pins in my wake, and had to reset a lot of spacing.

I'm pretty sure no one's had much experience working on these Chinese Brodmann actions yet. They seem like junk to me.

I have not yet come to see the light with teflon powder yet... laugh



Hi Jim, how are they sold for? What brand? Renner have a China based plant (supposedly producing for Asian Market)

Till now I did not notice a change in he materials, and the parts are stamped.

Powder just an intermediary media, on the knuckle, if not the graphite does it, transferring to the knuckle more...
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2168876 - 10/20/13 10:50 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
There is no brand on the actions anywhere. My recollection is that these are "German-designed," Chinese-built actions, and I'm pretty sure the pianos come from the Hailun factory.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2168923 - 10/20/13 12:49 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7178
Loc: France
Looks like a copy of Renner design, I have no idea if Renner signs what they produce locally.

Too bad that center problem. Modern centers are less rigid than the old plated brass, but to bend them.... Why not write to the factory, they may be are not aware of the problem.?
Regards
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2169108 - 10/20/13 08:19 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 465
Loc: CO, USA
Even if a part has the Renner stamp in/from China, one must consider the possibility of counterfeiting. I cannot say that it is a certain problem in the piano sphere, but generally it is a problem to be aware of.

bicycles-
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/news/176/FULL-SPEED-AHEAD-FIGHTS-COUNTERFEITS

Electronic components-
http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Counterf...rticle24741.htm

Luxury goods-
http://www.iacc.org/news-media-resources/news-archive/special-report-faked-in-china.php

zoo animals ! ?-
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes...ina-chinese-zoo

In general -
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-counterfeit-goods-are-from-china-2013-6

Best regards-
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2171905 - 10/25/13 03:53 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: Chuck Behm]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Heh, I have 'after-after' photos to show...

Remember those gorgeously-reshaped hammers I did last week?



I paid my weekly visit to the club yesterday, and thought I'd see how they looked, six days later:





Didn't take 'em long...
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2171934 - 10/25/13 04:42 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Haha Jim, do you ever get the feeling at the Shout House that you are the head mechanic for a smash-up derby and your job is to try to keep cars running that are being pounded into immovable objects? wink

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#2172085 - 10/25/13 10:30 PM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: ando]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: ando
Haha Jim, do you ever get the feeling at the Shout House that you are the head mechanic for a smash-up derby and your job is to try to keep cars running that are being pounded into immovable objects? wink


Totally.

But, I think it's all worth it. Hundreds of people hear the fruits of my labor every night, seven days a week.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2172165 - 10/26/13 03:08 AM Re: Post Your Before / After Shots Here [Re: OperaTenor]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7178
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
Heh, I have 'after-after' photos to show...

Remember those gorgeously-reshaped hammers I did last week?



I paid my weekly visit to the club yesterday, and thought I'd see how they looked, six days later:





Didn't take 'em long...
B


I see nothing special,

Hammers look neat after reshaping but it is due to the fluff of the felt



Edited by Olek (10/26/13 03:15 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
Mendelssohn on meaning in music
by phantomFive
Today at 04:08 AM
Youtube! :)
by PianoPlayer98
Today at 02:46 AM
Youtube! :)
by PianoPlayer98
Today at 01:47 AM
Headphones Sennheiser MOMENTUM On-Ear
by khopin
Today at 12:54 AM
How struts define pitch variation between tunings
by Bosendorff
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
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