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#2163473 - 10/08/13 01:31 PM Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850??
pianomom5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 7
I need the best weighted, hammer action keys possible in this price range.
I can get all three of these relatively for the same price. I cannot go above this price range so please do not suggest that I get an entirely different, more expensive choice.

Which one is the best: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?
Thanks in advance for your help!

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#2163476 - 10/08/13 01:40 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, as far as I know the CN23 dominates the KDP90, so you can safely cross the latter of your list.

In terms of whether to go with Casio or Kawai, you will have to try them out and see which you like better. There's no unambiguous answer. There are Kawai folks and Casio folks. If you had a gun to your head and had to choose without trying them, I'd suggest getting the Kawai CN23.

There are, of course, many options in around the same price range that you have not mentioned (look at some Yamaha Arius line or the various slab-style pianos like Yamaha P155, Kawai EP100, Casio PX-350).


Edited by gvfarns (10/08/13 01:43 PM)

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#2163494 - 10/08/13 02:18 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 492
Kawai KDP90

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#2163508 - 10/08/13 03:04 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: emenelton]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: emenelton
Kawai KDP90


Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but the CN23 has a better sound engine and better action than the KDP90. I can't see any dimension in which the KDP90 is better.

What motivated you to consider this recommendation?


Edited by gvfarns (10/08/13 03:05 PM)

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#2163538 - 10/08/13 04:43 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 492
The CN23 has progressive Harmonic Imaging and 96 note polyphony and is originally an almost $2000 keyboard.

Is the action in the CN23 actually wood?
How about the Progressive Harmonic Imaging of the CN23 vs the Harmonic Imaging of the KDP90. I think the progressive might mean that the overtone triggering extends to one additional partial. Just a guess, Kawai has the best sympathetic resonance of any of the DP's.

I misjudged CN23 because it was older and has less polyphony.

I would like to change my vote, if that is allowed, to the CN23.

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#2163550 - 10/08/13 05:16 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 226
But Praskins demands the Kawai KDP90 be the chosen one! lol

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#2163558 - 10/08/13 05:23 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
KDP90 is closer to the CN22.
The CN23 is the superior instrument.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2163603 - 10/08/13 07:00 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: emenelton]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: emenelton
Is the action in the CN23 actually wood?
How about the Progressive Harmonic Imaging of the CN23 vs the Harmonic Imaging of the KDP90. I think the progressive might mean that the overtone triggering extends to one additional partial. Just a guess, Kawai has the best sympathetic resonance of any of the DP's.


No, it's not wood. But RH is Kawai's new plastic action and AHA is their older plastic action, now used in their lower-end models. RH got/gets a lot of great reviews in the MP6.

Progressive harmonic imaging is the name given to the newer generation of Kawai's technology. It's unambiguously better than HI. I don't think we should read too much into the name except to know that the former is newer and better--more memory used, richer and more detailed sound, etc.

Actually it looks like the KDP90 has HI without 88-note sampling (correct me if I'm wrong, James). If so that's two generations old (same as my MP8 vintage 2007) and quite noticeably worse than PHI.

Both pianos have 192 note polyphony. Oops. Was looking at CN24 specs. The KDP does have more polyphony, but that's like the least useful spec there is.


Edited by gvfarns (10/08/13 07:04 PM)

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#2163633 - 10/08/13 08:12 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: gvfarns]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Actually it looks like the KDP90 has HI without 88-note sampling (correct me if I'm wrong, James).


You are incorrect.

The KDP90 utilises HI 88-key sampling - this is one of the main improvements over the previous KDP80 model.

May I ask where you saw that the KDP90 did not feature 88-key sampling?

This point is clearly stated in the KDP90 leaflet available from the following address:
http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/catalogue.html

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2163641 - 10/08/13 08:25 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: Kawai James]
pianomom5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 7
Kawai James,
You might want to let your company know that the KDP90 specs are being noted as the KDP80 on the website as seen here:

http://kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CS_KDP/KDP90/kdp90-info.html

Also, if KDP90 has the HI with the 88-key sampling, I am confused as how the CN23 is the superior product??? Doesn't KDP90 also have wooden keys???

And Responsive Hammer action is BETTER than Advanced Hammer action IV-F??? So much marketing fluff to sift through!

My next question is what is the market value for a new CN23?

Thank you to all for your help!!!


Edited by pianomom5 (10/08/13 08:43 PM)

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#2163658 - 10/08/13 08:54 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pianomom5
Kawai James,
You might want to let your company know that the KDP90 specs are being noted as the KDP80 on the website as seen here:

http://kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CS_KDP/KDP90/kdp90-info.html


Thank you. I have advised my colleagues at Kawai America, and am confident that the information will be updated shortly.

Originally Posted By: pianomom5
Also, if KDP90 has the HI with the 88-key sampling, I am confused as how the CN23 is the superior product???


Because the CN23 features the superior 'RH' keyboard action and 'PHI' (with 88-key sampling) sound technology.

Originally Posted By: pianomom5
Doesn't KDP90 also have wooden keys???


No, the KDP90 utilises plastic keys.

Originally Posted By: pianomom5
And Responsive Hammer action is BETTER than Advanced Hammer action IV-F???


Yes, it's a more modern keyboard action.

Originally Posted By: pianomom5
So much marketing fluff to sift through!


My apologies for that. The quality of sound technology and keyboard action can be summarised as follows (in order of good, better, best):

Sound:
  • HI
  • HI, 88-key sampling
  • PHI, 88-key sampling

Keyboard:
  • AHA IV-F
  • RH
  • RHII

Originally Posted By: pianomom5
My next question is what is the market value for a new CN23?


I'm sorry, I'm afraid I do not have any information regarding US dealer pricing here in Japan.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2163661 - 10/08/13 09:15 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: Kawai James]
pianomom5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 7
You have been a HUGE help! Thank you! I am driving about and hour and a half to see a new CN23 on Saturday, but I suspect it's been a floor model. I hope I can get a really good deal on it!

I am confused as to how to look for a specific piano under "prices paid" without reading the whole thread, or maybe the CN23 isn't listed there???

The guy is offering $1090USD including a bench and no taxes, anyone know if that's a good deal or not???

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#2163662 - 10/08/13 09:25 PM Re: Kawai CN23, Kawai KDP90, or Casio PX850?? [Re: pianomom5]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pianomom5
I am confused as to how to look for a specific piano under "prices paid" without reading the whole thread, or maybe the CN23 isn't listed there???


There are several CN23 purchases listed in that thread.

Try this link:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1201029/all

Then use the search function of your browser (e.g. CTRL+F) and enter 'CN23'.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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