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#2165217 - 10/12/13 10:00 AM Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland
daz100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 103
Here I have got 3 mp3s of the same recording Ludovico Einaudi (In Un Altra Vita).Which sound would you more prefer.

First is Roland Rd700nx studio grand
Next is Pianoteq play using the D4 classical AB preset Last is Ivory 2,studio 7ft 16 level 2

I chose this recording because there is no flats and sharps and I have only got the demo version of pianoteq.

https://app.box.com/s/0ov3r5aw1yddr8wwos14
https://app.box.com/s/2cuj56rptwk1tb3l5rv7
https://app.box.com/s/1yib6vnwznpx2x37gyjo
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Rd700nx,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos and Pianoteq 5.0

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#2165222 - 10/12/13 10:22 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
daz100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 103
I forgot to just mention I am reading sheetmusic and sometimes you will hear pauses in the music where I am page turning.
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Rd700nx,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos and Pianoteq 5.0

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#2165228 - 10/12/13 10:29 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 233
I didn't listen until the end, but gave each version a minute or so. I think the Ivory is clearly the best, followed by the Roland and Pianoteq coming in 3rd.

I've been playing with the Pianoteq demo too. I considered getting the "stage" version before deciding on the Galaxy Vintage D. While I do like the idea of modelling, and think Pianoteq has a certain expressive dynamic that sampled pianos I've tried lack, the overtones are rather over the top, and it has as sort of muddy and plastic-like tone to me. I currently have the 40 day Truepianos demo too, which I think I like better, and may purchase at some point. Ivory has no trial version that I'm aware of, but after listening to some mp3 demos, I like everything about it ecxept the price.
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#2165273 - 10/12/13 01:29 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3544
Loc: Northern England.
Personally preferred Pianoteq, which I have. But that is only one sample of a dozen or so D4s, all of which can be altered significantly in the effects department. Like reverb, wet or dry . . .and the graphic equalizer makes huge differences in the overall tone.

If you can change the sound on the other samples you have here, it`s not really representative. But interesting nonetheless.
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#2165295 - 10/12/13 02:02 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
de cajon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 181
Loc: London, UK
As recorded, the Pianoteq for me.
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#2165326 - 10/12/13 03:34 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 233
I suspect that eventually modelling (or hybrid sample & modelling) will come of age, supplanting the huge multi-GB sample libraries as the virtual pianos of choice, but I don't think we're quite there yet. But as Pianoteq rolls out a V5, or Truepianos a V2 and so on, I will definitely be paying attention.

I am surprised people prefer the Pianoteq here, and that so many people rave about it elsewhere. Maybe I'm missing something, but to my ears it doesn't sound superior, even though in some ways it's touch response and resonance is very, very good.
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#2165328 - 10/12/13 03:36 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
daz100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 103
When choosing these preset sounds I didn't add any extra reverb or do any equalising even the roland was set to its standard studio grand setting.

I personally thought the midrange notes Ivory 2 was my preferred sound ,but in the 2nd half of the song the higher notes are used and then I think it is obvious Pianoteq is favoured .
I felt more connected to pianoteq than Ivory whilst playing .
I will be buying the full version of pianoteq play,I prefer it's simplicity and quick load time and my computer can struggle at times to run Ivory.
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Rd700nx,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos and Pianoteq 5.0

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#2165332 - 10/12/13 03:46 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
I can't help it but Pianoteq always sounds to me like "piano in a box" (listened to from outside the box). This holds for your recording and virtually all demos on Pianoteq website. Otherwise I would love it. As it is, I must side with Ivory.

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#2165344 - 10/12/13 04:25 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
The Ivory recording has a little much room reverb in it, which puts it at a disadvantage here. The other two are a little cleaner. Sometimes it's fun to play with the various reverb settings, but especially when we are focusing on the piano sound, a little reverb goes a long way.

PianoTeq is still my least favorite, but man they have made progress. A few versions ago PianoTeq was just awful.


Edited by gvfarns (10/12/13 04:26 PM)

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#2165348 - 10/12/13 04:30 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3801
Loc: North Carolina
Easy win for Ivory here. But it's clear that the Ivory has been set up with some reverb that the others lack. It also has its stereo width set higher.

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#2165353 - 10/12/13 05:01 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Psychonaut]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Originally Posted By: Psychonaut
I currently have the 40 day Truepianos demo too, which I think I like better, and may purchase at some point. Ivory has no trial version that I'm aware of, but after listening to some mp3 demos, I like everything about it ecxept the price.


Is there any 40 days demo of True Keys ??
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2165362 - 10/12/13 05:27 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: jarosujo]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 233
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
[quote=Psychonaut]

Is there any 40 days demo of True Keys ??


This is a new one on me, so I had to look it up. Doesn't look like it. The sample libraries generally don't have trial versions, most likely because they're so large. You could always check Try Sound to see if they have it, but I've never used this since my DAW & keys aren't connected to the internet, and the latency is likely terrible.
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#2165375 - 10/12/13 06:00 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
My fault, I confused Truepianos for True Keys.
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Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2165392 - 10/12/13 06:58 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
I played a little bit with the EQ of WINAMP when listening, trying to get it the best adjusted for myself, and came to the result that

IVORY is my very clear winner. Playing with the EQ I could find everything in there. It offers great overtones and sounded clear defined from the bass to the treble. It has the obvious character of a piano, as a piano can be expected to sound if boxed into a digital machine instead of having a true acoustic one.

Roland sounded dissapointing lifeless. I bet that it was not from a HP-505 recorded, my own recordings are much richer in sound, although I would not right away say my HP-505 will beat the IVORY. Would need to really compare those.

Pianoteq sounded like listening through small speakers in a cheap plastic housing connected to my office PC. Didn┬┤t attract me to test it further.

Have you listened to the "GIANT"? I once in a comparison have had it decided to be my favorite that time and therefore if ever updating to a software piano would for sure test it once more personally for responsiveness before doing a final purchase decision.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2165404 - 10/12/13 07:37 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Psychonaut]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Psychonaut
I didn't listen until the end, but gave each version a minute or so. I think the Ivory is clearly the best, followed by the Roland and Pianoteq coming in 3rd.

+1

But the convenience of built-in sounds makes Roland a winner IMHO.


Edited by Amaruk (10/12/13 07:43 PM)
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#2165406 - 10/12/13 07:43 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Marco M]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Marco M

Roland sounded dissapointing lifeless. I bet that it was not from a HP-505 recorded, my own recordings are much richer in sound, although I would not right away say my HP-505 will beat the IVORY.


I think the SN Studio Grand is unique to the RD-700NX. I don't have it on my LX-15 at least.
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#2165535 - 10/13/13 05:27 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Ivory has the most subtle, beautiful and singing notes here, but I'm afraid that there must be some settings involved in this perception (Reverb, mic. position...).
Pianoteq sounds very well, too, it's surprisingly warm for a modelled piano, and most people here praise how well you connect with it when playing. Just some dislikes: too bassy/muddy in this preset, and too many overtones. Reminds me of my school's upright in it's tiny room, where the overtones eat you.
Roland...sounds so Roland! I don't like it at all, but my likes are on the warmer side of the sound. I'm fed up with too bright and twangy pianos.
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Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2165539 - 10/13/13 05:44 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
daz100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 103
Here I have another link to the same recording but using Ivory 2 German D 18 level 2.
No reverb,using medium resonent and turned down the stereo width to 50 percent.
I think it's better here.

https://app.box.com/s/ahqwuajqy3v2hjprn78i
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Rd700nx,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos and Pianoteq 5.0

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#2165566 - 10/13/13 08:28 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Doritos Flavoured Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Brazil
I see a clear winner here: Ludovico Einaudi. marvelous piano piece...

the 3 recordings are just that: three different recordings of the same piano music on different pianos and varied acoustic conditions...
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#2165607 - 10/13/13 10:22 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Doritos Flavoured]
Ben Crosland Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 419
Loc: Worcester, UK
Did you use the wizard to set up the velocity response in Pianoteq to suit your controller?
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#2165626 - 10/13/13 11:37 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Pat22 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/26/13
Posts: 8
I own Pianoteq 4.5 now for 2 months and I can tell you
that the demos only show 20% of it's capabilities.

Changing the mics positions does improve the sound a lot.
You have to use it, tweak it and play it a lot and you will smile more
and more each day....
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YAMAHA G1 Baby Grand, Studio owner, producer and composer.

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#2165637 - 10/13/13 12:02 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Ben Crosland]
daz100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 103
To set up the velocity curve I used the calibration procedure built into pianoteq.

It would be good if anybody can add any of their own demo's of pianoteq or Ivory and share their set ups .
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Rd700nx,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos and Pianoteq 5.0

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#2165813 - 10/13/13 09:38 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Starr Keys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 998
Loc: california
Reading through this thread, I was surprised no one mentioned the Bluethner add-on for Pianotek. Most of the classical players I've seen purchase Pianotek in the last several months usually mention that they also got this add on at a cost of about 50% more than what Pianotek alone would cost. Must make a big difference. For a sample of what it sounds like in a few different styles, click here:

http://www.pianoteq.com/bluethner

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#2165825 - 10/13/13 10:56 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Starr Keys]
Doritos Flavoured Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Reading through this thread, I was surprised no one mentioned the Bluethner add-on for Pianotek. Most of the classical players I've seen purchase Pianotek in the last several months usually mention that they also got this add on at a cost of about 50% more than what Pianotek alone would cost. Must make a big difference. For a sample of what it sounds like in a few different styles, click here:

http://www.pianoteq.com/bluethner



so, let me get this straight: the guys develop a software that produces sound by simulating the actual physical model of the strings, materials and soundboards, a flexible software which can produce sounds quite faithful to real pianos by simply tweaking a few parameters here and there, like string and soundboard material, string size, mic position etc.

then to use a preset made out from one such tweak by the name Bl├╝thner, you should pay a larger extra fee?
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#2165826 - 10/13/13 11:04 PM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Not quite.

Think of Pianoteq as the 'host' software, that allows modelled instruments (such as a Bl├╝thner) to be loaded into it.

Kind regards,

James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2165851 - 10/14/13 12:49 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Doritos Flavoured Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Brazil
or at least, that's what they want you to think. wink

those "models" are not gigabyte-sized samples. what are they? they are really more akin to equations and parameters fed into the main software engine, which is what produces the sound. I'd say the real difference in pricing in the case of the Bl├╝thner, besides the darker overtones pianoteq produce given the proper material and string size settings, are related to the name itself more than any hidden parameters not found in the software itself already...
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unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
- piano music -

my piano haiku

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#2165855 - 10/14/13 12:55 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
I don't think you can make your own Bl├╝thner (or any other) add-on from regular Pianoteq just by tweaking parameters. I guess it involves some kind of more complex programming.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
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#2165857 - 10/14/13 01:02 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Doritos Flavoured]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
or at least, that's what they want you to think. wink

those "models" are not gigabyte-sized samples. what are they? they are really more akin to equations and parameters fed into the main software engine, which is what produces the sound. I'd say the real difference in pricing in the case of the Bl├╝thner, besides the darker overtones pianoteq produce given the proper material and string size settings, are related to the name itself more than any hidden parameters not found in the software itself already...


No, it's a new model.

The filesize is irrelevant - the fact is that individuals have invested countless hours programming this new piano model, and are therefore entitled to be paid for their work.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2165861 - 10/14/13 01:14 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: Kawai James]
Doritos Flavoured Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
I don't think you can make your own Bl├╝thner (or any other) add-on from regular Pianoteq just by tweaking parameters. I guess it involves some kind of more complex programming.


regular users sure can't. or else, how'd they make a business around it?


Originally Posted By: Kawai James

No, it's a new model.

The filesize is irrelevant - the fact is that individuals have invested countless hours programming this new piano model, and are therefore entitled to be paid for their work.

James
x



what I'm paying for when I buy a pianoteq license, then?

all those countless hours were really into the pianoteq physical-based simulator. the models in addons are really pretty much programmer-level parameters and tweaks...

ok, perhaps I'm overstating it. Perhaps pianoteq is like Pixar's Renderman (a photorealistic renderer) and the addon models are like Pixar movies, while the ones included in the package are Pixar shorts...

I really don't believe it, but to each his own...
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unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
- piano music -

my piano haiku

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#2165863 - 10/14/13 01:19 AM Re: Ivory 2,Pianoteq and Roland [Re: daz100]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
To use your nice analogy, Pianoteq is like Renderman, and the add-on models are like...well, the 3D models used to create rendered scenes.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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