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wow .. there is some *gorgeous* playing in that recording. ESPECIALLY the very, very, very last phrase. to my ears.

bestowed is the royal order of cats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skrr-UgHeHg

Hi Knotty
This is like SUPER SUPER SUPER beautiful. You must be really really proud.
I especially liked your dynamics and your fun ending.
You have mastered some very difficult phrases in such a short learning period.
Well done !
I am yet to start Phrase 3.

Which chorale is up next for you ? I'm sorry I've fallen so far behind you.
Every few days I'm doing a 2 bar composition in 4 voices.

Thanks Cats!

Cus, we're both taking slightly different approaches which is probably fine.
I am actually not sure which to do next. Either I find another in G or E-, for ex. the 3rd, or I just proceed to #2.

How are the Cats doing?
2nd Chorale started really easy and packs up a punch on the last 2 measures. Funny what an extra measure can do. Lots of interesting chord movement.

Hi Knots
Still on Chorale 1. I've started Phrase 3 woohoo ! I'm finding this phrase much easier than Phrase 2.
Every few days, I'm still doing a 2 bar composition in 4 voices to revise the principles of Chorale 1.

I'm looking forward to your Chorale 2.

Hey again you CATS

From Chorale 1, Phrase 3, I derive Principle 4 "soprano and tenor move in contrary motion".

Here I apply it to ATTYA.
https://app.box.com/s/i4d4jflmw88yifhpkegn

the sheet
https://app.box.com/s/7e6rsykgbps69npk6a8a

cusCAT!

That's very nice! It's sounding like and starting to look like chorale-style. What's great is the overall sound will soon begin to transfer into your playing. It probably has already!

About rules and the right and wrong of it all: Yes, there are bits in your phrase that wouldn't fly in a "classical common practice" theory class working from a "classical common practice" theory textbook. These would be textbooks such as those used in the first few years of uni theory courses.

But because this rule stuff is very loose in jazz and because composers in general took liberties as well, it's may often be better to think of "guidelines" rather than "rules."

So the common guideline is there's usually no more than an octave between tenor and alto or between alto and soprano. But in jazz there's liberty (often extreme liberty) with spacing and for a lot of composers there is too.


My opinion is do exactly as you're doing - look at Bach as the example, take what you want and what you can and go from there. Over time all guidelines and rules will all emerge - and then you can decide what to do with them. .... In the meantime, I'll try to put together a few simple (very, very short) examples to show some of the common guidelines ...

But, really, the example you've posted is great!

Thank you very much for listening Mark and for your helpful comments.

Yes when I am "in the moment" during an improv session, I surprise myself with a couple of Bach-like voice-leading bars. Even if it sometimes turns out that I heard 3 voices and not all 4.

Thanks for your guideline on the octave spread.

cus(CAT!),

and it's perfectly fine for textures to lose and add voices.sometimes 3 voices are more than enough. sometimes 2 voices are fine, sometimes just 1 ... and ...

About "0" voices ... Michael Carvin (the drummer) has said one of his goals is to "will" the drums to play themselves. He's said he's seen Pharoah Sanders "will" the saxophone to play itself and that's where the idea comes from ...

this may or may not be a true story but it's true that it's a story ...

Very nice Cus. Very Choralesque.

Hi Mark
I find it incredibly kool that the master of 4 voices Fred Hersch chose to play Softly as in a Morning Sunrise with 1 voice, it sounded very refreshing, cheeky and insouciant.

Hi Knotty
Thanks for listening to my work.

Cus, I guess FH's Softly as In a Morning Sunrise is the example. Nice pick! Very nice!

Bach has a famous piece from a violin partita (#5 i think). the piece from that is the Chaconne in Dm as it usually referred to.

Brahms transcribed it for piano but left hand ONLY!

I've played through it a bunch of times with two hands. Much easier that way .... ! ... But for our discussion it's pretty much a piece with 1 line. Except Bach has ways to make one line into more than one line.

His cello suites and the violin partitas are all great examples ...

// piano score
http://imslp.org/wiki/Violin_Partita_No.2_in_D_minor,_BWV_1004_(Bach,_Johann_Sebastian)

// piano performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KBiPlit-Y

// violin performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bVRTtcWmXI

Hey Mark
Thanks for telling me about this amazingly awesome 15 min of improvisation by Bach. It sounds surprisingly modern and is so well played by Zimerman.
No wonder the great Brahms was inspired to transcribe it.

I recorded #2 really slow and kind of sloppy. been trying to record much faster but I always make a couple of small mistakes. post now or try one more night?

recordings of chorales are kinda like new software (release early, release often!) and you know cus and i are looking forward to hearin' it!

Hey Knots
Your "sloppy" equals my "good"

Good one Mark!

Cus , are you working on it still. What section are you on?
I think the 3 Rd one might be easier.

Hi Knotty
Still on Chorale #1 Phrase 3.
I've been watching the Barry Harris video on applying diminished chords to ATTYA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCsw0NjXY1U

Barry uses Bach's voice-leading principles.
So I've been composing a couple of measures using Barry's concept of borrowing the dim below the chord.

Alright then, here's #2 from earlier this week. I'm not very happy with it but here it is anyway. Software style.

https://app.box.com/s/n49m0zlehqzf63lvh1vs

Hey Knots
Thanks so much for posting this beautiful chorale. I can't believe how quickly you learnt it.
What are your plans now ? Stick with it for longer or move on to another one ?

I am up to Chorale #1 Phrase 5.