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#2166649 - 10/15/13 12:17 PM Does practicing the piano change the hand structure?
JanVan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 51
And, if it does, in what way?

Has there been done any significant research on this?

I don't know if it's just my imagination but I have the impression that my fingers have become thinner, more bony, after I started to practice the piano again after a break of several decades.

I have been practicing now for about 2 hours a day since October of last year.


Edited by JanVan (10/15/13 02:03 PM)

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#2166659 - 10/15/13 12:50 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
Well there's no doubt it has stretched my hands over the years. I cannot wear a bangle[ you know the hoop-type bracelets?]because they get stick midway down my hand. It's ok because I don't like jewelry moving all around when I am playing anyhow.

rada

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#2166700 - 10/15/13 02:58 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: rada]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2353
Loc: NYC
Pianists give better back rubs! smile
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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#2166765 - 10/15/13 05:46 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
gooddog Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4822
Loc: Seattle area, WA
I haven't noticed any change in underlying bony structure. The only obvious differences are bigger muscles, greater stretch, more tactile sensitivity, more agility and bigger veins...and I do give great backrubs.
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Best regards,

Deborah

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#2166968 - 10/16/13 02:18 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18229
Loc: Victoria, BC
I guess the only sure way to find an answer to this question is to practice the piano for fifty years with one hand only and then compare it to the other at the end of that time. Otherwise, it might be hard to determine what has caused any changes, if, indeed, there are any changes to be noted.

On the other hand - as it were! - before/after photographs might accomplish the same purpose, and would allow you to continue practicing with both hands.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2166979 - 10/16/13 02:59 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: BruceD]
Roland The Beagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 256
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: BruceD
I guess the only sure way to find an answer to this question is to practice the piano for fifty years with one hand only and then compare it to the other at the end of that time. Otherwise, it might be hard to determine what has caused any changes, if, indeed, there are any changes to be noted.


Control hand and experimental hand. Good idea. Time for some Godowsky?

Also, if your muscles and tendons can be affected (and I think it's certain they can), then bones can shift around a bit because they are carried by these ligaments.

But in any case, the structure of the hand can change very much. I know because I was a big time video game addict and it dramatically altered the shape of my hand which now has advantages and disadvantages in piano. After 1-2 years of piano, my hand is changing shape yet again to be better suited to the instrument.
_________________________
Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach

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#2167008 - 10/16/13 06:19 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: RealPlayer]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
Pianists give better back rubs! smile


if only we could give ourselves back rubs... frown
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#2167158 - 10/16/13 12:00 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: TheHappyMoron]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18229
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: TheHappyMoron
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
Pianists give better back rubs! smile


if only we could give ourselves back rubs... frown


"Ay, there's the rub." (Hamlet, III, i)
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2167204 - 10/16/13 01:27 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: BruceD]
gooddog Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4822
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: TheHappyMoron
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
Pianists give better back rubs! smile


if only we could give ourselves back rubs... frown


"Ay, there's the rub." (Hamlet, III, i)
Groan.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#2167205 - 10/16/13 01:27 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4892
Loc: USA
LOL

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#2167372 - 10/16/13 07:03 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
grin that made me laugh, the poor ones are the best ones!!
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#2167431 - 10/16/13 10:17 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: TheHappyMoron]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7980
Originally Posted By: TheHappyMoron
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
Pianists give better back rubs! smile


if only we could give ourselves back rubs... frown


We can...sort of.

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#2167439 - 10/16/13 11:07 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6152
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
My hand span has definitely increased.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2167570 - 10/17/13 07:16 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
TimV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 71
Loc: New York, NY
When I started playing piano as a child, my fingers were badly double-jointed. My whole family is, in fact. As I got older, and also as I got more involved in playing and working on my technique, my double-jointedness is essentially gone. My thumbs can still do weird things, but my fingers never "collapse" anymore.

I know, I know... correlation <> causation. But the rest of my sibs still have weird spider hands, and I don't.
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Bach WTC 1 #7
Brahms Op 76 #1, Op 118 #5
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#2167615 - 10/17/13 08:52 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: TimV]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 720
Loc: Westford, MA
My fingers are also double-jointed and this certainly created problems when playing the piano (actually, more so with the violin), but now I have no issues. However, I do not think there have been any structural changes in my fingers. They can bend back just as far as ever. I would say that as my technique and strength developed I became better able to control the bend in my joints.

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#2168753 - 10/20/13 01:33 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
anadyr21 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 35
I haven't noticed any structural changes in my hands. However, I've had a number of people mention how defined the muscles of my forearm are. Not large, just very defined, as these muscles would affect wrist movement. I know some of it is related to the fact that I'm also very lean and thin, which makes it much easier to see overall muscle definition.

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#2168826 - 10/20/13 08:39 AM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
geraldbrennan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 77
Loc: ann arbor, mi
The only bad change I have experienced was after practicing many hours of Godowsky-Chopin pieces, after which I noted that my thumb and little finger of my left hand had switched places. It was really more inconvenient than painful, and the only way I could switch them back to their right places was to struggle through Prelude in C from Book I of the Well-Tempered Clavier, which was quite difficult considering my indisposition. After a few clumsy go's they popped back in to place and remain there today. So no more Godowsky for me.


Edited by geraldbrennan (10/20/13 09:04 AM)

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#2168892 - 10/20/13 11:24 AM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure?..."

If we're to believe Bones re-runs, our every activity leaves its signature upon the skeleton and its points of muscle attachment. Certainly, we know that activity which loads the bones influences them to become denser and more mineralized. Sherlock Holmes (a fictional character, but who was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a real doctor) instructed Watson that spatulate fingertips are a signature of touch-typists and pianists. He modified this by observing that the spiritual appearance of the face of the client who had just consulted him indicated a musician--- a music teacher. That may be fine for the purposes of a short story, but I wouldn't count on it too much in real life. Holmes didn't rely on it too much himself--- he asked the client.

My own fingertips are not especially spatulate, and I both play the piano and type. As to what my skeleton might reveal to a forensic anthropologist, the jury is still out.

"...I have the impression that my fingers have become thinner, more bony, after I started to practice the piano again..."

This happens to everyone who gets older, JanVan, except, maybe, people who have very fat hands. I agree with the person who observed that the muscles which control the arms, hands, and posture become firmer, though not bulky.
_________________________
Clef


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#2168904 - 10/20/13 11:49 AM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: Jeff Clef]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5425
Well, it's well known that your dominant side is stronger and slightly larger, and the bits that regenerate grow slightly faster (compare your feet sizes and the growth of your nails and compare the relative strengths of your arms and legs), so undoubtedly our activities cause changes in our musculature and skeletal structure. But I challenge even Sherlock (or Hercule) to deduce that someone is a pianist from their hands..... wink

Anthropologists can often deduce the occupations of our ancestors (whether they were manual laborers or belonged to the idle nobility), how hard their lives were etc, from their skeletons.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2168935 - 10/20/13 01:15 PM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
Didn't mean to shortchange Hercule! Or Miss Marple. Now there's one who could tell you a thing or two.
_________________________
Clef


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#2168946 - 10/20/13 01:46 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: anadyr21]
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 943
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: anadyr21
I haven't noticed any structural changes in my hands. However, I've had a number of people mention how defined the muscles of my forearm are. Not large, just very defined, as these muscles would affect wrist movement. I know some of it is related to the fact that I'm also very lean and thin, which makes it much easier to see overall muscle definition.

Ditto.
Except the muscle along the 5th-finger edge of my palm grew. Also maybe the muscle between thumb and 2nd finger.

Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...I have the impression that my fingers have become thinner, more bony, after I started to practice the piano again..."

This happens to everyone who gets older, JanVan, except, maybe, people who have very fat hands.
...

Are you sure? The opposite has happened to me.

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#2168969 - 10/20/13 02:45 PM Re: Does practicing the piano changes the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2344
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Since I am a piano technician/rebuilder and an amateur pianist-my fingers have gotten thicker and my grip stays strong for my age-because of using tools both powered and not. Also I have calluses thick enough to be able to take hot potatoes from the oven without gloves.

When my hands tire from holding tools, a piano playing break relieves the tightness.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2168996 - 10/20/13 03:30 PM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: JanVan]
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1122
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Yuppers, your hands will get more muscular and articulate - if you're doing it right...

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#2169038 - 10/20/13 05:16 PM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: geraldbrennan]
cefinow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 364
Loc: Western NC (US)
Originally Posted By: geraldbrennan
The only bad change I have experienced was after practicing many hours of Godowsky-Chopin pieces, after which I noted that my thumb and little finger of my left hand had switched places. ... So no more Godowsky for me.


That's scary. Was it something too advanced? I know students can actually do damage to their hands/arms by taking on things that are beyond their technique. My "wake-up call" was when I started to grow a 6th finger on the side of each hand when practicing a Chopin etude overly zealously. When I started acting on the teacher's advice (instead of just saying, "yeah, uh-huh, right" and then forgetting about it during the week) the extra digits began to be resorbed back into the hand. Proper technique is *so* important. Well, I am so glad to hear I am not the only one who has suffered something like that.

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#2169046 - 10/20/13 05:45 PM Re: Does practicing the piano change the hand structure? [Re: cefinow]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: cefinow
Originally Posted By: geraldbrennan
The only bad change I have experienced was after practicing many hours of Godowsky-Chopin pieces, after which I noted that my thumb and little finger of my left hand had switched places. ... So no more Godowsky for me.


That's scary. Was it something too advanced? I know students can actually do damage to their hands/arms by taking on things that are beyond their technique. My "wake-up call" was when I started to grow a 6th finger on the side of each hand when practicing a Chopin etude overly zealously. When I started acting on the teacher's advice (instead of just saying, "yeah, uh-huh, right" and then forgetting about it during the week) the extra digits began to be resorbed back into the hand. Proper technique is *so* important. Well, I am so glad to hear I am not the only one who has suffered something like that.

The Chopin études have been known for their unique effects on the fingers from the earliest days: the contemporary critic Ludwig Rellstab (renowned for giving a certain Beethoven piano sonata the nickname by which it's now universally known) wrote: "Those who have twisted fingers may cure them by practising these Études; but those who have not should not play them, not unless they have a surgeon handy."
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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