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#2192187 - 12/03/13 11:06 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: therightmoment]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Depends on what you mean about "midi feature". Kawai and Casio, both have MIDI ports. Casio can be connected to a computer by USB too. The kawai need to buy a cheap MIDI-USB adapter (I have one) to connect to the computer.

I am not sure what extra learning features the Casio PX-350 have, but I am quite sure nothing is better than learning with Synthesia. Synthesia is a program/software that is compatible to windows and mac, that allows you to watch notes you need to play. Free version works just fine, but you can pay for full version that have more features. Anyway, the idea is connect the keyboard to the computer and use Synthesia. You better check that out yourself: http://www.synthesiagame.com/

Of course, that works with any digital piano with MIDI or USB-to-host ports.

If learning features is what you want, I can't think a better option than that.


Edited by Daniel Richter (12/07/13 09:03 PM)
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2192190 - 12/03/13 11:13 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
therightmoment Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 24
Loc: WA, USA
Thankyou I will check that out and thankyou for the clarification!
_________________________
-SY
DeColores!
mid-level beginner pianist (again) serious as of Dec 2013!

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#2193904 - 12/07/13 10:48 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Alekhan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 5
The Roland F-20, haven't have a chance to test all functions. So far my impression:
- key action - "sluggish" probably correct, however the noise not bother me. I can set the key sensitivity to high so less chance of missing a note, however the default is quite heavy. I like the ivory feel, it's like a "real" piano.
- sound - low and high notes is great I can hear the sympathetic resonance, escapement feature...etc., middle-low is average or "digital".
- it's made in Indonesia.
- pedal is continuous (can't tell how many steps)

I think this is a DP good for beginner - like me. I'll have a more details after I play a bit more.

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#2193964 - 12/07/13 01:21 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Alekhan]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Thank you very much Alekhan. I was hoping someone give me details about that model, since I can't access to one. So your feedback is very useful.

I will edit the main post with what you say, but have a few questions:

  • Really have ivory keytops? But similar to casio or how is? I ask because on photos don't look like having ivory texture. Maybe is less obvious?
  • Can you measure the key dip on the front and rear of any white key? Millimeters (mm) is more accurate. This is to know the fulcrum distance.
  • What pedal you have?
  • Please consider record a file for the DPBSD project, if is not too much trouble for you. If you need help with that, I can for sure help you. Is actually not that complicated. Here is the link: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1365103.html

Thank you very much
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2193988 - 12/07/13 01:53 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Alekhan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 5
- Yes, I can see and feel the ivory grain.
- I don't know how accurate but I measured about 8.75mm front 2.75mm back slightly pressed.
- pedal roland DP-10. Half pedaling works.

Sure, I'll look into DPDSD later.

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#2194023 - 12/07/13 03:04 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Alekhan]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Slightly pressed? You need to press the key all the way down.

You could also test steps on half pedal, if you have connected your DP to the computer. After that is super easy. Download free version of pianoteq and see "Audio/MIDI Setup" section. MIDI messages will show. After that is just note how much values give when pressing slowly the pedal. If is too much values, maybe you could give first few values (Example:0,10,20,30,40,50) and I figure out how much steps will be after that, following pattern.

Didn't know that model have ivory feel on keytops. From what you say sounds great.

Thanks again. Hope you keep helping providing info about that model. Not for me, but for anyone that may want that info.
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2194204 - 12/07/13 09:00 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
This is why one would buy a Yamaha CP33. Yes, it's under $1,000 and even under $900US if you shop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8JwLG2jyKo&feature=c4-overview&list=LLn2ElYnNNAVPwsnBaZZl8gQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Oda_YqtKs
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2194447 - 12/08/13 10:40 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Alekhan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 5
I downloaded pianoeq4 per your instruction: I got 0,1,2,3...-..125,126,127 down, 127,126,125,..-...,3,2,1,0 up, so I guess it has 128 steps.

I said "slightly" press meant I did pressed all the way down, but just enough force.



Edited by Alekhan (12/08/13 10:42 AM)

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#2194527 - 12/08/13 02:28 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Alekhan]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Ah ok. Great info. Will post that on main page.

Thanks
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2196281 - 12/11/13 08:42 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
TecFlip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Kansas City, MO
For the Yamaha P35, I have a tear down of the action and of the keys with the fulcrum. The half pedal is only 2 layers.

http://tecflip.tumblr.com/post/69277158118/yamaha-p35b-teardown

Hope that helps.

BTW, The fulcrum on the Casio CDP-120 Is in the almos the exact place as the Yamaha P35.
_________________________
-Jon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b

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#2196294 - 12/11/13 09:05 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: TecFlip]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Wow. Nice photos. I love inside photos of devices.

You could measure the key dip on front and rear? mm is more accurate, if you can
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2196326 - 12/11/13 10:28 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Squall21 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: Daniel Richter
Thank you very much Alekhan. I was hoping someone give me details about that model, since I can't access to one. So your feedback is very useful.

I will edit the main post with what you say, but have a few questions:

[list]
[*]Really have ivory keytops? But similar to casio or how is? I ask because on photos don't look like having ivory texture. Maybe is less obvious?


I just got the chance to try the F-20 at the store. The ivory texture is much more subtle than the casio, but still noticeable. Feels nice actually. I would love to know what this 'sluggish' action is. Even though I've tried it, it was brief.

Thanks Daniel btw for this thread. It really narrowed down my search. smile

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#2196365 - 12/12/13 12:44 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Squall21]
Alekhan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 5
"Sluggish" action I perceive that the keys do not bounce back as fast as an average digital piano or keyboard. Right now it doesn't bother me, however, I could see this can be an issue for advanced players. I think the key action is quite realistic compare to an acoustic piano. The sound of the F-20 is top notch. I hook it up to an external amp/speakers. I haven't try the IPad option yet, but the instruments sound excellent.

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#2196630 - 12/12/13 04:49 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
TecFlip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Kansas City, MO
p35 10mm in the front 2mm in the back.
_________________________
-Jon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b

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#2196656 - 12/12/13 06:11 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: TecFlip]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Thanks
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2196914 - 12/13/13 08:43 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: TecFlip]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Where the P-35 is made? China?
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2196975 - 12/13/13 10:52 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 220
Originally Posted By: Daniel Richter
Where the P-35 is made? China?


These days, what isn't?
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2196978 - 12/13/13 10:52 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Coondog]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 220
Originally Posted By: Coondog
This is why one would buy a Yamaha CP33. Yes, it's under $1,000 and even under $900US if you shop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8JwLG2jyKo&feature=c4-overview&list=LLn2ElYnNNAVPwsnBaZZl8gQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Oda_YqtKs


Were either or both of these you? Regardless, great playing!
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2199307 - 12/17/13 05:39 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3880
Loc: Northern England.
"Yamaha CP33 don't have speakers? How I miss that? You are right. Then I have to remove it since I want to include models that have speakers. I want it to be oriented to home digital pianos, not stage piano. Thank you for the correction."

You just dropped yerself in it! Home pianos HAVE to include console models! Arius, and many others fit this bill. . . slab pianos are almost designated "stage pianos" by their design methinks . .

We`ll help ya, man! Starting with the entire Celviano range, we have . . . (you can always reference the stage equivalent - have fun!)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2199547 - 12/18/13 06:36 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: peterws]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
You mean you want me to include on the list consoles and digital pianos with no speakers?

I can't because each post have a limit on characters number. I most limit number of models I can add, so that is one of the reasons I narrow the list to: portable, current models, with speakers, and below 1000 US$. Other reason is that takes more time for me.

I could post a similar list but about consoles, or with higher price range, or without speakers, etc. But I will not do it because it takes time to keep updated the list and pay attention to new models, research, review for mistakes, etc. I think I invest enough time on this.

Would be cool someone else do that other lists, though.
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2208511 - 01/05/14 06:44 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3880
Loc: Northern England.
It was just a thought at the time, not to be taken too seriously. It`d be almost a full time job keeping up with latest stuff. Would suit somebody retired . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2209560 - 01/06/14 04:46 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3880
Loc: Northern England.
DGX 650 has three stages of pedal operation, according to Pianoteq. Like, on, off and half . . . .

White key depresses only 2.5mm, not 3 at the console end.

It also records audio easily (wav.) and takes an audio input through a minijack. Software pianos can feed into it`s speakers by this method straight from the computer.


Edited by peterws (01/06/14 04:51 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2209684 - 01/06/14 06:53 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: peterws]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Thanks. Is great info about the DGX650. I included on the post.
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2209956 - 01/07/14 02:25 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
Lelax Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 42
Thank you for compiling this useful compendium of affordable digital pianos.

I agree with your conclusions to the best of my knowledge. In particular the MODARTT PIANOTEQ physics simulation software based on MATLAB scientific programming platform is capable and preferable to the onboard piano sampling system used in these digital pianos.

So ... MIDI USB keyboard with great action goes to PC running Pianoteq with Bluthner player or the standard D4 player seems to give truly satisfactory and sufficient piano sound for classical practice.

I would add the analog amplifier and speaker system needs to be optimized along with a ton of settings in the software to get optimal sound. That is, the system as a whole needs the user to do the optimization to get best results. That being stated, the Pianoteq Bluther and D4 players are pretty good at the default settings. I avoid fancy room acoustics settings and stick to plain Jane flat room acoustics simulation settings. Comments and feedback most welcome on this sidebar.

Again TY for putting all this stuff together. Nice work!

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#2209989 - 01/07/14 05:15 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
p.elvis Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 7
Yamaha GHS is crappy







Edited by pelvis (01/07/14 05:28 AM)

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#2209990 - 01/07/14 05:19 AM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
p.elvis Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 7
Korg NH (SP170 SP280) have most longer fulcrum




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#2210212 - 01/07/14 01:09 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: p.elvis]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Not all GHS keybeds are the same. For example the P-35 have a shorter fulcrum than P-105. Also P-35 use the plastic as a pivot; the P-105 use real axis for each key. P-35 have several keys join in one mold; P-105 keys are individual.

Although I do agree GHS action is kinda "crappy". At least compare to other technologies and brands.


About Korg NH (SP170 and SP280), I didn't know was that far fulcrum. Maybe a winner in that aspect, in their category. But I need confirmation on the measurements to publish it. Can someone measure key dip on front and rear of the white key on those models?
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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#2210339 - 01/07/14 03:53 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter]
p.elvis Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_DcljpKnIM

all GHS (P, DGX, YDP series) uses octave blocks with small fulcrum

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#2210343 - 01/07/14 04:03 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Lelax]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3880
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Lelax
Thank you for compiling this useful compendium of affordable digital pianos.

I agree with your conclusions to the best of my knowledge. In particular the MODARTT PIANOTEQ physics simulation software based on MATLAB scientific programming platform is capable and preferable to the onboard piano sampling system used in these digital pianos.

So ... MIDI USB keyboard with great action goes to PC running Pianoteq with Bluthner player or the standard D4 player seems to give truly satisfactory and sufficient piano sound for classical practice.

I would add the analog amplifier and speaker system needs to be optimized along with a ton of settings in the software to get optimal sound. That is, the system as a whole needs the user to do the optimization to get best results. That being stated, the Pianoteq Bluther and D4 players are pretty good at the default settings. I avoid fancy room acoustics settings and stick to plain Jane flat room acoustics simulation settings. Comments and feedback most welcome on this sidebar.

Again TY for putting all this stuff together. Nice work!


Personal choice for most but I prefer the onboard piano sound on the DGX, knocked slightly out of tune, (which you can do in the functions menu) for most stuff. But I`ve still work to do on Pianoteq. . . it is good.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2210347 - 01/07/14 04:06 PM Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: p.elvis]
Daniel Richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 183
Loc: Venezuela
Not sure where I saw the key action of P-105, but I remember was individual keys.

Also, one person measure the key dip on P-105 and was:
Key dip: Front 10mm, Rear 3mm

Other person measure the P-35 and was:
Key dip: Front 10mm, Rear 2mm

Only 1mm difference, but if you where right should be the same.

I would love to have a picture of P-105 insides. Can't find one. If you find one, let me know. Remember, must be P-105. Other models don't apply.

GHS refers to the key action with hammer, not the actually keys. At least that is from what I've seen.
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

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