Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#2170261 - 10/22/13 08:06 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
The source of the introduction to 'classical' music is rather unimportant. The fact that it is a source is very important. Youtube, NPR, or even the past TV show "Wings."

In the 1990's, I had many friends ask me what that "cool" music was. Many of those friends now have season tickets to the opera, the symphony, or own a ton of CD's.

The 'exposure' is the most important entry for all to enjoy great music. People who attend concerts/recitals by LL or VL already know about them. Hearing opening of the Beethoven 5th, on radio or in a commercial, has probably drawn more people into the concert hall than anything else.

For a current "inspiration" as introduction to classical music, check out the musical soundtrack to "Mom" on CBS. Not the greatest show, but ya can't fault the music!

Let us not discount "I killed a wabbit," "Fantasia," or Buggs Bunny as the Maestro.

Inspiration and attraction lies only around the corner. Kindling that little spark is the responsibility of all those who cherish the worth of classical music.

_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2170280 - 10/22/13 08:44 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Old Man]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5308
Originally Posted By: Old Man

But I think Lang Lang and Lisitsa are playing to two different audiences. Both accept many invitations to play with local orchestras for their season subscribers, and they play it straight up. I saw LL play Mendelssohn No. 1 in such a venue, and he was as traditional as any other pianist. He was dressed in customary concert attire, and while he couldn't resist his usual swaying and swooning on the bench, he delivered an impeccable performance. The audience, comprised, for the most part, of traditional concert goers, gave him multiple standing ovations.

But LL also plays at large, "non classical" venues, and here he is playing to the "hoi polloi". His intent is not to win over the local music critic (or the critics at PW), but to be a rock star: Black leather, smoke, and yes, maybe taking a lot of liberties with the music itself. But for people who are not familiar with classical music, this is what's required. He's simply using technology and pop culture to woo folks to a place they've never visited. The end result of his efforts may be that half a dozen people are "won over", so there are no great expectations here. But I do believe it's a worthy cause.

I'd never attend a Lang Lang concert in a rock venue, like the Roundhouse in London - which 'embodies the pianist's mission to reach new audiences with classical music' (according to the DVD blurb). Yet even there, he plays the music 'straight', despite being engulfed by CO2 smoke - he never 'Liberaces' by adding roulades of his own invention, or by chopping the 'boring bits' off. The rock fans got the whole thing, and they loved it. Compare that to Pavarotti, Caballe et al, who not only perform with pop singers (who can't sing in tune) but also do so in pop arrangements.

And last time I saw him, he introduced new audiences to chamber music, by sandwiching a concert of piano trios (Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov and Mendelssohn) with Repin and Maisky in between a solo concert and a 'outreach' one where the performers were all children (which I mentioned in another thread).

Lisitsa takes a different route to popularise classical music, but she too never goes for the easy method by playing 'classical pops' or 'cross-over' rubbish. What they have in common is the courage of their convictions, that they only play what they love (but know how to tailor their programs for their audiences), but still get the non-traditional audiences to come and hear unadulterated classical music that has not been 'tarted-up' to appeal to pop/rock fans.

I'd bet that many of the audience for Lisitsa's Rach 3 that was broadcast live on BBC had never heard it before, but came just because of Lisitsa and her Youtube fame. Even if only a small number of them become converted to the cause of classical music and go on to explore more, that is a triumph that we classical music lovers, seeing the dwindling and ageing audiences in the concert halls, cannot afford to turn up our snobbish noses at.....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Top
#2170300 - 10/22/13 09:33 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Kreisler


Why anyone would want to find fault is beyond me.



I'm quite sure no one WANTS to find fault. I've made it quite clear that I like the approach she takes with the public and the fact that she has the courage to try something different. Her technique is brilliant, but I simply don't care for her playing, nor am I required to. I've not ever LOOKED for fault with her. I've not ever WANTED to find fault with her. I am not a fan and doubt I ever will be.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2170301 - 10/22/13 09:37 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Wait so what's the deal here, are we supposed to love every performer out there?


Love, no.

Support, yes.


Bah!!!!!!!! No, no, no and no!!! Step away from the crack pipe please.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2170307 - 10/22/13 09:47 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
wower Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 242
Loc: Calgary
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Wait so what's the deal here, are we supposed to love every performer out there?


Love, no.

Support, yes.


instapoll: I got to go with K on this one. Local is awesome.
_________________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!

Top
#2170364 - 10/23/13 12:05 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Old Man]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 345
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Old Man

When I said "critics", I was really talking about the critics right here at PW. Open up a Lang Lang thread and see what you get. Endless sniping and snarky comments about his leather pants and his smoke machine and his marketing, etc. It's perfectly fine to criticize his "La Campanella", but to go on and on about his clothes, his emoting at the piano, etc. is, I believe, born of a sense of injustice: Why does LL get all the packed houses and the fame and adulation, when so-and-so is a far superior musician?


Despite all your well-reasoned sociological points (and they are), it's all really just rhetorical, even your last question. Why? Because I can't worry about "how many" people I might convert when I play because that isn't the point of playing music. And I can't worry about whether I am superior or inferior to another musician, because that isn't the point of learning music. But I do like to think that my playing in public (so far in a retirement home, hospital lobby and a public atrium) can have as much affect as Lang Lang's playing. Maybe sometimes moreso because it is that much closer and personable. And you should see the savings I can enjoy by dressing only in jeans and avoiding those astronomical rental costs for smoke machines!


Edited by toyboy (10/23/13 12:07 AM)
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

Top
#2170483 - 10/23/13 07:25 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: bennevis

Wow!!

And I thought this thread was for Lisitsa's fan club.... wink


I wish it were! I like Lisitsa very much. She's a wonderful pianist and has done amazing things to promote our art to a wider public. Why anyone would want to find fault is beyond me.



Dear Beyond Me: People having been "finding fault" with performers in the arts for more than 2000 years, going back to Greek drama. As far as Western classical music criticism goes, Telemann ran a musical publication that had some of that, almost 300 years ago, and it has only increased since then. So maybe it's just part of the whole culture, to "find fault".

The reason why people criticize the arts should be fairly simple to understand. For one thing, people like to share their critical opinion (especially those who have spent some time and effort in becoming "informed" in various ways), and, apparently, other people like to read/hear what they have to say. Some people even may learn something from it. And since the days of Telemann, many hundreds of people have earned some money or other consideration by doing just that.

More informally, people involved in the arts either as active participants or as patrons generally do share and discuss opinions, both positive and negative, at least in my experience. People do like to talk about the things that interest them, you know, and it is not always flattering to the subject matter.

Quote:


It's also proof of how much easier it is to cut someone down than build someone up. If some of these people really cared about the art they profess to care so much about, they'd spend more time promoting what they like instead of taking the low easy road criticizing what they don't.


I've never noticed that Tommasini was particularly inclined towards negative reviews.

About it being easier to cut someone down rather than build them up, you've just given a nice example of exactly that. After all, you could have given kudos to Tommasini for his critical acumen, but instead have chosen the low easy road of faulting him for his review of a concert that you didn't even attend.

Top
#2170492 - 10/23/13 07:42 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Brendan]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Brendan
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I wish it were! I like Lisitsa very much. She's a wonderful pianist and has done amazing things to promote our art to a wider public. Why anyone would want to find fault is beyond me.


I agree. She comes off as a much more serious artist than recent commercial types (LL, Yundi Li, and Yuja Wang to an extent) and isn't afraid to do things off the beaten path. Her Ives CD with Hilary Hahn is great. One could make the analogy that the online buzz that her videos have created is the modern equivalent of the Cliburn ticker-tape parade.



Funny about her hooking up with Hahn - Hahn is, to me, kind of creepy in her absolute technical perfection and utter lack of blood and heart. Lisitsa is a good match.

Quote:


And by all accounts, she's a tremendously nice person, unlike most others in her tier.


Awwwww..... Well, since she is the ONLY person in her tier, it's not that hard to pull off. (BTW, it doesn't sound to me that making sarcastic and completely unnecessary fun of the writer of her program notes is particularly "nice".)

I used to know a few extremely nice pianists back in college - it didn't seem to have any particular effect on their playing, though. It didn't improve it, that much is for certain.

Top
#2170497 - 10/23/13 07:52 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Actually, the reviewer was pretty much spot-on. She did mock the program notes - she sarcastically quoted passages from them and laughed about their incompetency and over-technicality. However, I think that speech was one of the best parts of the concert - it was quite funny.


Her real talent may be in schmoozing. Given how many times it comes up that people are positively impressed by encounters with her that are not in a formal concert (where she plays and they listen and that's all that happens), there's a case to be made, I think.

Top
#2170504 - 10/23/13 08:12 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: bennevis]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: bennevis
And Tomasina (or whatever he/she's called)? grin


Tommasini is his last name and his first name is Anthony.

I realize that you are having some difficulties with acculturation and gender identity, but would suggest that you tread lightly in this area. Better yet, avoid it entirely.

Top
#2170515 - 10/23/13 08:41 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13804
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I wasn't talking about Tommasini in my post, I was talking about the critical commentary in this thread. wr is right of course, criticisms have been levied against artists since the dawn of time. However, the level and character of criticism has changed a great deal. People used to write articles that were insightful; when Hanslick or Schumann or Debussy had strong criticisms of someone, they crafted thoughtful arguments that explained their position. Then they signed their names to it and championed the music they did love.

Here, people write things like "I think her musicianship is very much in question."

I don't expect everyone to be a Tommasini, Lebrecht, Ross, Page, or Schonberg, but it would be nice to see someone at least try.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2170524 - 10/23/13 09:08 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19480
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I wasn't talking about Tommasini in my post, I was talking about the critical commentary in this thread. wr is right of course, criticisms have been levied against artists since the dawn of time. However, the level and character of criticism has changed a great deal. People used to write articles that were insightful; when Hanslick or Schumann or Debussy had strong criticisms of someone, they crafted thoughtful arguments that explained their position. Then they signed their names to it and championed the music they did love.

Here, people write things like "I think her musicianship is very much in question."

I don't expect everyone to be a Tommasini, Lebrecht, Ross, Page, or Schonberg, but it would be nice to see someone at least try.
Exactly. I think many of those who strongly objected to Kreisler's post completely missed his point.

Kreisler was, I believe, objecting to the tone and content of the post. Several of those who didn't like Lisitsa's playing or Kreisler's comment about their review are among those who with incredible regularity write the most arrogant, nasty, and mean spirited posts in response to most everyone's playing whether professional or amateur.

Painting someone with the broad description of "Her musicianship is very much in question" is what I would call a pretty scathing review. The reviewer is assuming their musical understanding is far superior. Some specific examples of what the reviewer thought was unmusical, with phrasing clearly indicating it's the reviewers opinion as opposed to being factual, together with what they liked about the concert is the way to write a more balanced review that doesn't come off as a nasty diatribe.

It's possible to be quite critical without sounding nasty or arrogant. It's really the Golden Rule applied to concert reviewing or showing someone some basic respect.


Edited by pianoloverus (10/23/13 06:39 PM)

Top
#2170527 - 10/23/13 09:19 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: pianoloverus]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13804
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Painting someone with the broad description of "Her musicianship is very much in question" is what I would call a pretty scathing review. The reviewer is assuming their musical understanding is far superior.


Yes.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2170529 - 10/23/13 09:24 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19480
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
Well, since she is the ONLY person in her tier, it's not that hard to pull off. (BTW, it doesn't sound to me that making sarcastic and completely unnecessary fun of the writer of her program notes is particularly "nice".)

I used to know a few extremely nice pianists back in college - it didn't seem to have any particular effect on their playing, though. It didn't improve it, that much is for certain.
Lisitsa is not the only person in her tier. "Tier" refers to her level of success as a professional.

Even if she made sarcastic comments about the program notes writer(I find this hard to believe and do not give much weight to polyphonist's saying this was true), that would be one incident. It's undeniable that part of Lisitsa's appeal is that she does come off as an incredibly nice and warm person. One incident, even if true, doesn't change that.

I can't figure out why you would mention that being nice doesn't improve one's playing based on your experience with college friends. Are you saying that Lisitsa's nice but one shouldn't make that part of the evaluation of her performance? I think a performer's stage presence is certainly part of what goes into evaluating a performance if not the most important part.

Top
#2170531 - 10/23/13 09:41 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Kreisler]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I wasn't talking about Tommasini in my post, I was talking about the critical commentary in this thread. wr is right of course, criticisms have been levied against artists since the dawn of time. However, the level and character of criticism has changed a great deal. People used to write articles that were insightful; when Hanslick or Schumann or Debussy had strong criticisms of someone, they crafted thoughtful arguments that explained their position. Then they signed their names to it and championed the music they did love.

Here, people write things like "I think her musicianship is very much in question."

I don't expect everyone to be a Tommasini, Lebrecht, Ross, Page, or Schonberg, but it would be nice to see someone at least try.


I don't see any particular reason to go into a lot of detail, when prompted by something as general and unsupported as "what isn't in question is her technical facility and musicianship".

It's sufficient to say that someone might disagree with such a sweeping statement, IMO. OTOH, if I were being paid by the word...


Edited by wr (10/23/13 09:49 AM)

Top
#2170537 - 10/23/13 10:05 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5319
Loc: Europe
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#2170544 - 10/23/13 10:16 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5308
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: bennevis
And Tomasina (or whatever he/she's called)? grin


Tommasini is his last name and his first name is Anthony.

I realize that you are having some difficulties with acculturation and gender identity, but would suggest that you tread lightly in this area. Better yet, avoid it entirely.


Are you having some problem with humor failure recently?

And what have you got against Lisitsa? You defend some faceless critic to the hilt (who's of course immune to any criticism, as that's not going to impact on his earnings) and criticize a pianist - not just her playing, but her musicianship - who has done more to further the cause of classical piano in recent years than almost anyone else. Certainly more than any so-called critic, including yourself.

Read your own posts, before posting any riposte. Better still, don't.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Top
#2170550 - 10/23/13 10:33 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: toyboy]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: toyboy
Originally Posted By: Old Man
You can't lead people who are unfamiliar with classical music directly to Beethoven. But if you first bring them to Lisitsa or Lang Lang, you may just entice a few of them to give LVB a listen.

not sure i can accept this logic for two reasons. it piles an awful lot of responsibility on two, or a few, charismatic musicians to "bring people into the fold". 2) it's a rather patronizing remark in that it assumes any given person needs an enticement as you suggest. In a media rich world that we're in, it only increases chance of immersion into "LVB" (assuming LVB is the pinnacle goal is suspect in my opinion but that's a whole other debate), however slight it might be. People heard Pachelbel's Canon back in the 70s from (I forget, a film?); Kubrick used classical music in many of his films; Yo Yo Ma has been ubiquitous. Whether any of these examples have caused "the riff raff" to attend more classical music is doubtful. But if a Person A heard Schubert's Impromptu in Barry Lyndon, bought the soundtrack album and took a liking to the Handel as well, I'd call that a day's work. But to worry about mass conversion into classical music, that's a bit rich.

No responsibility is being placed on any artist. Each artist chooses his own path, and any responsibility he may feel is entirely self-imposed. No one expects any pianist to "do" anything except produce beautiful music.

I'm not sure what is patronizing about my comment. As I said in a previous post, people who like other forms of music are attracted to the performer, not the music itself, so yes, I do believe they need some enticement. But that is a cultural phenomenon. I was making no judgement about it, one way or the other. Audiences (and I'm including myself) enjoy a feeling of connection with the performer, and that was my point. Lang Lang and Lisitsa have figured out ways to make that connection.

And no, I don't "worry" about "mass conversions" to classical music. Haven't lost a wink of sleep over it. But I would certainly welcome whatever conversions are possible.

Originally Posted By: toyboy
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Yet the classical music establishment seems to want no part of this. They decry such crass commercialization and self-promotion as unseemly. And that's all well and good if our goal is to maintain the status quo and a sense of decorum by keeping the hoi polloi, the riffraff, the unscrubbed masses on the other side of the club gates. And, if the result is to consign Bach and Mozart to the ash heap of history in another generation or two, so what? At least we got ours.

mein gott, the cynicism that you throw out to the so-called hoi polloi is quite clever...and rude. At least we got ours? You're setting up quite a clever straw dog in this argument. Again, the future of classical music can hardly be dependent on two self-promoting artists. I say thank goodness because there are all sorts of other "invitations" out there: Matt Haimovitz playing in bars; the Poisson Rouge bringing the music down a notch; free lunch-time concerts seemingly everywhere; a guy I saw playing his cello out on the sidewalk for the patrons of the outdoor Italian restaurant to here. At least we got ours? Are you sure about that?

Gott im Himmel, toyboy, I'm not sure about anything! laugh And if I was being rude, I certainly didn't mean to be. And once again, you're acting as though I'm placing the weight of the world on these two "self-promoting artists". I'm simply saying that I think they're making a significant contribution to the world of music, but as you correctly point out, they're two of many. I find any attempts to expand the universe of classical music fans a welcome and refreshing change. But I've sensed that there are others here at PW who couldn't care less about expanding the audience. They like things the way they are, and view artists like LL and Lisitsa as interlopers.

Originally Posted By: toyboy
Originally Posted By: Old Man
So when I hear people pile on Lang Lang or Lisitsa, I'm always skeptical of the motivation. Is it really just the playing that bothers these critics? Or is it the fact that fame and fortune have smiled on these two young pianists, and they are seen as somehow undeserving of it? I suspect the latter, because the critics always seem to exude a personal animus towards them that far exceeds the usual bounds of musical criticism.

That's just unfair to the professionality of the critic. My take-away from Tommasini's criticism is that this girl's got talent but fears she is distracting herself with alot of her audience gimmicks. I really fail to see any jealousy on his part.

But if you want to really understand Lisitsa's or Lang's methods of attracting audiences, compare their strategy to someone like Bernstein, who built an audience from the ground up with his young people's concerts; his sincerity and warm personality; and his otherwise conservative demeanor. I am fascinated by what Lisitsa is doing on YouTube, at least outside of it's use as self-promotion. Maybe, probably, Bernstein too would embrace YouTube as a mean to reach out but my guess is he'd be using it more as an educational tool, not simply as a popularity contest.

As I said, I was not questioning the professional music critics. In general, I think they've been fair to LL and Lisitsa, and, for the most part, have focused on the performance rather than the performer. But in this forum, some of the criticism seems very personal, as though LL and Lisitsa have crashed their private party.

And you won't get any argument from me about Bernstein. I spent many hours of my childhood watching his young people's concerts. But LB's mission was entirely different. His career as a conductor, composer, and pianist was already firmly established, so he had no need for self-promotion. His goal was pure education. And since there were only 3 networks in the US at that time, he was provided a platform in prime time that today's artists can't even fathom.

LL and Lisitsa, OTOH, are straddling the fence. They are promoting themselves first and foremost, but they are doing it in a way that is welcoming to those with no exposure to classical music. I see no incompatibility between advancing one's own career and trying to promote classical music to the non-classical-music-loving public at the same time. Self interest and altruism are not mutually exclusive.

Top
#2170551 - 10/23/13 10:33 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Nikolas]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?


It's easy, Nikolas! grin Here's how to do it:

1) Wait a week from today. Then,

2) Start a thread on any of these topics (your choice):

--Lang Lang
--Valentina
--The Use of Arpeggiation and Asynchronization
--Whether or not to listen to recordings of a piece you are currently learning
--Whether or not composers really meant musicians to follow what they wrote in a score

I am sure there are other topics that would work, but these are "sure fire," as they say. If you can (and I am sure you can) include some typos or grammatical errors in your original post. That will certainly help things along. thumb Oh--and whatever topic you choose, if you can manage to work an angle that relates religion or politics to music, people who contribute to your thread can skate right up to thin ice and get the moderators involved. It's always good to get the moderators involved. wink

--Andy


Edited by Cinnamonbear (10/23/13 11:01 AM)
Edit Reason: added a thought
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2170563 - 10/23/13 10:51 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Alkanaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 28
Loc: NJ
I planned to see her at 92Y, but was not able to because of other commitments. While she is not my favorite pianist, I would not think twice about seeing her play even though I as a listener might not agree with some of her interpretations. Her technique is pretty solid and her inspiration and excitement about performing live adds up a lot to the experience.

BTW, in case someone is not aware, Lisitsa means "fox" in Russian, does anyone think that the name is very fitting to her looks and personality?

Top
#2170565 - 10/23/13 10:59 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Cinnamonbear]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19480
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?


It's easy, Nikolas! grin Here's how to do it:

1) Wait a week from today. Then,

2) Start a thread on any of these topics (your choice):

--Lang Lang
--Valentina
--The Use of Arpeggiation and Asynchronization
--Whether or not to listen to recordings of a piece you are currently learning
--Whether or not composers really meant musicians to follow what they wrote in a score

I am sure there are other topics that would work, but these are "sure fire," as they say. If you can (and I am sure you can) include some typos or grammatical errors in your original post. That will certainly help things along. thumb

--Andy
We should have a separate PW forum for each of those topics.

Top
#2170569 - 10/23/13 11:09 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: pianoloverus]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?


It's easy, Nikolas! grin Here's how to do it:[...]
--Lang Lang
--Valentina
--The Use of Arpeggiation and Asynchronization
--Whether or not to listen to recordings of a piece you are currently learning
--Whether or not composers really meant musicians to follow what they wrote in a score
[...]
We should have a separate PW forum for each of those topics.


LOL! Another "sure fire" topic--hop on over to the Tuner/Tech forum and ask, "Equal Temperament or Unequal Temperament?" (I can even tell you who will reply to that question, and what they will say... ) smile
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2170574 - 10/23/13 11:26 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?

It's easy, Nikolas! grin Here's how to do it:

1) Wait a week from today. Then,

2) Start a thread on any of these topics (your choice):

--Lang Lang
--Valentina
--The Use of Arpeggiation and Asynchronization
--Whether or not to listen to recordings of a piece you are currently learning
--Whether or not composers really meant musicians to follow what they wrote in a score

--Andy

I think you forgot one, Andy:

--If you believe a piece is not horribly difficult to play, you simply don't understand it.

Top
#2170575 - 10/23/13 11:26 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I enjoy Val's playing.

I do not enjoy Lang's hidden insights.

End of Review.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2170582 - 10/23/13 11:31 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Old Man]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?

It's easy, Nikolas! grin Here's how to do it:

1) Wait a week from today. Then,

2) Start a thread on any of these topics (your choice):

--Lang Lang
--Valentina
--The Use of Arpeggiation and Asynchronization
--Whether or not to listen to recordings of a piece you are currently learning
--Whether or not composers really meant musicians to follow what they wrote in a score

--Andy

I think you forgot one, Andy:

--If you believe a piece is not horribly difficult to play, you simply don't understand it.

Often it's true.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2170584 - 10/23/13 11:35 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Often ??????
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2170585 - 10/23/13 11:38 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Often ??????

Very often.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2170586 - 10/23/13 11:41 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Often ??????

Very often.

But not always.

Top
#2170597 - 10/23/13 12:11 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
But usually, as Andy points out.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2170599 - 10/23/13 12:13 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
TimV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 70
Loc: New York, NY
Okay, I'm going to chime in on this now. I'm the one who sat next to VL on the subway and chickened out of saying hello to her.

I admire her. I support her. I was at her recital at the 92Y. I actually went to an "unofficial" recital she gave in NYC back in 2010 at the Ukrainian Cultural Center. I don't think she's the best pianist out there, and there are things I don't like about her playing. But I like what she does overall, and I'd go see her again. I can be very specific about some of the things I don't like, to give some examples.

But first I'll start with a positive comment. Her opening piece, Rachmaninoff Op 32 No. 5, was breathtaking. Such a beautiful tone and flow. I was annoyed at the people around me because the seats in that hall are very creaky, and every time someone shifted their weight, it distracted me. OH MY GOD WILL YOU JUST SIT STILL.

Op. 32 #12: The sound was too "hard." I don't necessarily think the 16th note figuration needs to sound like Ondine, but it shouldn't sound like a toccata either.

Op 32 #10: Opening was great. Middle section was voiced "backwards" IMO. 8th note triplets of the "orchestra" drowned out the brass melody.

Op 23 5$6: I don't know where my brain was. I wasn't paying attention, apparently.

Op 23 #2: Really muddy and imbalanced. The fanfare in the treble was mostly inaudible over the left hand growl. Not a lot of "space" in the 2nd more lyric section.

Overall I would say this about the performance. There were some places where she changed her interpretation from some of her youtube performances. Mostly for the better, I think. But her amazing, dazzling chops sometimes get away from her and her playing stops saying anything. The only thing some of her performances said was "wow, I can play really accurately and fast." N.B., my own playing never falls prey to this danger...

Given the option I would go see Murray Perahia play before Valentina. But if I didn't have to make that choice, I'd go see her again. I enjoyed it.

Also, a note about the program notes. I don't think she was attacking the program notes directly. She was commenting on the general practice of program notes being just so much trivia. "so and so composed opus x in blahblahblah and was published by mumbleandmumble, it was first premiered by the composer in the year blahblahblah+2 and he immediately revised it and re-premired it later that same year two towns away... <snore>" Yes, she read the notes that were written for her program. If it was a criticism of anything, it was about the general tone of program notes. She then started reading something she'd written discussing what the Shostakovitch Sonata meant to her. And also what it apparently represented to the composer, why he wrote it, what it was about for him, etc. The thing with program notes is they're usually "correct." But in the end they don't tend to be very interesting when all they do is tell you when and where the music was written. Shostakovitch's 2nd sonata tells a tale of profound horror, being written during/after the siege of Leningrad. She wanted to make sure we all knew that story.
_________________________
--------------------------
Bach WTC 1 #7
Brahms Op 76 #1, Op 118 #5
Debussy Suite Bergamasque

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
November Piano Bar
by kenjazz
55 minutes 3 seconds ago
Von fremden Lndern und Menschen tempo
by hreichgott
Yesterday at 10:43 PM
Another Kawai ES7 warning
by bjorn of brekkukot
Yesterday at 08:41 PM
Olga Vinokur, Piano Concert Nov. 9, Lowell, MA
by Piano World
Yesterday at 08:21 PM
Yamaha P155 synth/midi question
by sdrep
Yesterday at 07:36 PM
Who's Online
63 registered (AquaralSS, ando, alberto, beeboss, 17 invisible), 1888 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76724 Members
42 Forums
158660 Topics
2330099 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission