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#2170604 - 10/23/13 12:19 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Minnesota Marty]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
....snip....
Let us not discount "I killed a wabbit," "Fantasia," or Buggs Bunny as the Maestro.

Inspiration and attraction lies only around the corner. Kindling that little spark is the responsibility of all those who cherish the worth of classical music.


i like your thoughts marty. but it gave me one bad one. do you understand what it could mean if lang lang and bugs bunny are successful in inspiring interest in classical piano music? suddenly 1000's upon 1000's of others will join piano world wanting to share their own opinions, and the threads will reach into untold numbers of pages, and hitherto unexplored controversies. i think it is in the moderator's best interest to keep the popularity of this music to a bare minimum.

just sayin'. wink
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#2170619 - 10/23/13 12:43 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
toyboy,

Good idea. Let's keep it secret.

We need a hush-hush code word to get in. That, and a secret handshake.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170705 - 10/23/13 03:44 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Nikolas]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 439
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I so wish to be as successful and get my own thread of fighting in PW! grin Wouldn't that be awesome?


Take care in what you wish for Mr. Nikolas.

But if that thread were to appear on PW it would be endless troubles as we ladies discussed whether you were musical, tall, handsome, thoughtful and intelligent or limited to merely musical, helpful, interesting, intelligent and cute!
_________________________


Working on:
Bach Sinfonia A Minor

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#2170719 - 10/23/13 04:00 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
May I assume there is a hidden discussion of 'toyboy?'
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170782 - 10/23/13 06:11 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: bennevis]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: bennevis
And Tomasina (or whatever he/she's called)? grin


Tommasini is his last name and his first name is Anthony.

I realize that you are having some difficulties with acculturation and gender identity, but would suggest that you tread lightly in this area. Better yet, avoid it entirely.


Are you having some problem with humor failure recently?



When it comes to homophobic jibes, yes.

Quote:


And what have you got against Lisitsa? You defend some faceless critic to the hilt (who's of course immune to any criticism, as that's not going to impact on his earnings) and criticize a pianist - not just her playing, but her musicianship - who has done more to further the cause of classical piano in recent years than almost anyone else. Certainly more than any so-called critic, including yourself.

Read your own posts, before posting any riposte. Better still, don't.


What I have got against Lisitsa is her intemperate fans, who make ludicrous proclamations that she's beyond any criticism. Well, you may see her as coated in Teflon, but that doesn't mean anyone else does.

Incidentally, I can't think of any pianist whose musicianship is beyond question. That sort of perfection just doesn't exist in this world, although there may be a few who approach it; Lisitsa isn't one of them.

And after this post, you will be blissfully free of responses from me, because I won't be reading any more of your posts, either in this thread or elsewhere here at PW.

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#2170793 - 10/23/13 06:34 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Minnesota Marty]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty


Inspiration and attraction lies only around the corner. Kindling that little spark is the responsibility of all those who cherish the worth of classical music.


I'm perfectly happy to "kindle that little spark" with people who are interested, and have done that whenever the opportunity comes up, but I don't believe in proselytizing.

It's the "do unto others" thing - I don't like it when people try to sell their enthusiasms to me when I am not interested, and I try not to do that to others.

I also don't get why "responsibility" enters the picture. People are free to do whatever they want in regards to classical music, AFAIAC.

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#2170795 - 10/23/13 06:35 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
wr,

Is being obtuse a chronic condition for you?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170796 - 10/23/13 06:35 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19642
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
What I have got against Lisitsa is her intemperate fans, who make ludicrous proclamations that she's beyond any criticism. Well, you may see her as coated in Teflon, but that doesn't mean anyone else does.

Incidentally, I can't think of any pianist whose musicianship is beyond question. That sort of perfection just doesn't exist in this world, although there may be a few who approach it; Lisitsa isn't one of them.
I don't see how one can reasonably hold behavior of Lisitsa's fans against her.

Saying that no pianist's musicianship is beyond question is far different from what some posters in the thread said...that Lisitsa was lacking in musicianship.

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#2170799 - 10/23/13 06:37 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5548
Originally Posted By: wr
[quote=
And after this post, you will be blissfully free of responses from me, because I won't be reading any more of your posts, either in this thread or elsewhere here at PW.


Good riddance.

No, don't bother to reply. wink
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2170803 - 10/23/13 06:43 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Minnesota Marty]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty


Is being obtuse a chronic condition for you?


Are ad hominem attacks your only mode of expression?

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#2170804 - 10/23/13 06:45 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: wr
Incidentally, I can't think of any pianist whose musicianship is beyond question.

Incidentally, I can't even think of what this means.

I'll speak with a dead composer and maybe I shall find the true light.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170812 - 10/23/13 07:04 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Minnesota Marty]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: wr
Incidentally, I can't think of any pianist whose musicianship is beyond question.

Incidentally, I can't even think of what this means.

I'll speak with a dead composer and maybe I shall find the true light.


Just trolling along, eh?

Sorry, not interested.

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#2170815 - 10/23/13 07:13 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Old Man]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: Old Man


When I said "critics", I was really talking about the critics right here at PW. Open up a Lang Lang thread and see what you get. Endless sniping and snarky comments about his leather pants and his smoke machine and his marketing, etc. It's perfectly fine to criticize his "La Campanella", but to go on and on about his clothes, his emoting at the piano, etc. is, I believe, born of a sense of injustice: Why does LL get all the packed houses and the fame and adulation, when so-and-so is a far superior musician?


By the way, I think it's worth pointing out that there are a variety of "critics" of LL here and not all of them talk about that extraneous stuff (actually, I think relatively few of them do), but instead talk about his actual playing. The worst playing from him I ever heard was in a radio broadcast, where I didn't see him at all.

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#2170818 - 10/23/13 07:25 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Old Man


When I said "critics", I was really talking about the critics right here at PW. Open up a Lang Lang thread and see what you get. Endless sniping and snarky comments about his leather pants and his smoke machine and his marketing, etc. It's perfectly fine to criticize his "La Campanella", but to go on and on about his clothes, his emoting at the piano, etc. is, I believe, born of a sense of injustice: Why does LL get all the packed houses and the fame and adulation, when so-and-so is a far superior musician?


By the way, I think it's worth pointing out that there are a variety of "critics" of LL here and not all of them talk about that extraneous stuff (actually, I think relatively few of them do), but instead talk about his actual playing. The worst playing from him I ever heard was in a radio broadcast, where I didn't see him at all.

The smoke machines are particularly ludicrous. How can one respect a musician who does things like this?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2170830 - 10/23/13 08:06 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

The smoke machines are particularly ludicrous. How can one respect a musician who does things like this?


Well, that one is easy enough to answer...just don't attend the kind of events where they are used and you won't be bothered by them. Or you shouldn't be, IMO.

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#2170847 - 10/23/13 08:43 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: TimV]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
Originally Posted By: TimV

Op. 32 #12: The sound was too "hard." I don't necessarily think the 16th note figuration needs to sound like Ondine, but it shouldn't sound like a toccata either.



Her tone was an issue for a reviewer of a recent Rach 3 she did in the UK, too. He said "Her technique is sufficient to enable her to play the notes but not to produce depth of tone at anything above mezzo-forte, with the result that much of the music sounded brittle to the point of ugliness. I winced at several moments of attack."

So maybe her technique is not "beyond question", either.

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#2170894 - 10/23/13 10:22 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: wr]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

The smoke machines are particularly ludicrous. How can one respect a musician who does things like this?


Well, that one is easy enough to answer...just don't attend the kind of events where they are used and you won't be bothered by them. Or you shouldn't be, IMO.

Exactly. As I said, LL performs in two different worlds. When he is playing with orchestras, he is not much different than any other pianist. You may not like his interpretation, but he's perfectly comfortable in, and respectful of, what I'd call the "traditional" world of classical music.

The smoke machines and black leather are reserved for the hoi polloi (to use bennevis' term). He is not trying to preach to the choir (us), and he has no expectation that you or I would even show up at such events. His goal is to attract a younger crowd who are not well versed in classical music, but who may give some consideration to a piece by Chopin or Liszt simply because they're geeked by the charismatic performer.

This is not rocket science. If you want the "serious" Lang Lang, see him when he's playing with the New York Philharmonic, the Philadelphia, the Cleveland, etc. I guarantee you won't be seeing any smoke machines, and you may actually enjoy the performance. For all other events, stay away.

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#2170930 - 10/23/13 11:45 PM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
Cinnamonbear Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3991
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[...] The smoke machines are particularly ludicrous. How can one respect a musician who does things like this?


Does anyone know how much actual control a musician like Lang Lang or, say, Yanni (I know, I know... just stick with me for this particular question...) how much control they have regarding the production of their "show"?

Along those lines, when Valentina was here in Rockford, I asked her how much say she had over her program. Basically, she said something like, "not as much as one might think." "Management" had its say, she said, and at the time, she indicated that she was looking forward to playing something besides Liszt when the anniversary year had passed.

Sometimes I think we forget that there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes at that level of performance, and that the person at the piano faces certain pressures beyond what we see and hear them do on stage.

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2172175 - 10/26/13 03:42 AM Re: October 19th - Valentina Lisitsa at 92Y [Re: Polyphonist]
rxd Online   happy
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1814
Loc: London, England
Put yourself in the position or a concert series promoter, particularly in a composers' centennial year. Even of a parochial music club.
If they left the programs entirely to the whim of the players, they are likely to get a very narrow variety of fare.

Now put yourself in the position of artistic director of a music festival with 3-4 concerts and lectures every day of the week(s), all attended by the same audiences. . They often have to arrange cycles of concerts on various themes to the extent that the programs are pre-arranged and then the musicians are sought out who can play it.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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