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Ah, Liszt - you've always been my favorite. You were a true Shakespeare of musical storytelling. I adore the brilliantly intense narratives with perfectly timed wink & nudge to remind us it's only make-believe. Your damn-the-torpedoes bombast - hey, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. And for sharing from the depths of your own sorrow I present many thanks for that gentle caution not to dwell on darkness.
Happy Birthday, dear Franz Liszt-- quite possibly the greatest pianist who ever lived, virtuoso and consummate musician, composer, innovator, conductor, transcriber, generous colleague, teacher for the ages, and humanitarian. The word "genius" is tossed around easily, but Liszt truly was one. Thank you for so many sublime musical moments.
I remember reading an article by Alfred Brendel some years back wherein he compared Liszt's genius with Rachmaninov's 'elevated conversation', a view I endorse. That ought to rile a few members, but hey, take it up with Brendel, certainly nobody's fool.
Yes, he is. Brendel doesn't understand music. This much should be obvious to whoever has heard him play late Beethoven, in which he supposedly "specializes." As for his view of Rachmaninoff, it is hogwash.
Please understand, if it were "Polyphonist's birthday celebration" and someone was all up here talking 'meh...' about you, I would fast be handing them their hat and showing the way to the door!
Happy Birthday, dear Franz Liszt-- quite possibly the greatest pianist who ever lived, virtuoso and consummate musician, composer, innovator, conductor, transcriber, generous colleague, teacher for the ages, and humanitarian. The word "genius" is tossed around easily, but Liszt truly was one. Thank you for so many sublime musical moments.
Many thanks for your post, sophial. You said it so well.
I find it inexplicably astounding that anyone could rate Rachmaninov a greater composer than Liszt. Rachmaninov had his limited bag of tricks which he expertly manipulated and recyled, but Liszt was always on to something new, throwing his compositional spear into new realms, and continually reinventing himself.
Why is it that so many PW members confuse talent with genius?
Happy Birthday, dear Franz Liszt-- quite possibly the greatest pianist who ever lived, virtuoso and consummate musician, composer, innovator, conductor, transcriber, generous colleague, teacher for the ages, and humanitarian. The word "genius" is tossed around easily, but Liszt truly was one. Thank you for so many sublime musical moments.
Many thanks for your post, sophial. You said it so well.
I find it inexplicably astounding that anyone could rate Rachmaninov a greater composer than Liszt. Rachmaninov had his limited bag of tricks which he expertly manipulated and recyled, but Liszt was always on to something new, throwing his compositional spear into new realms, and continually reinventing himself.
Why is it that so many PW members confuse talent with genius?
Jason, they were both geniuses, and I am not going to argue right now that one is greater than the other. However, what I will say is that Chopin surpassed them both.
I find it inexplicably astounding that anyone could rate Rachmaninov a greater composer than Liszt. Rachmaninov had his limited bag of tricks which he expertly manipulated and recyled, but Liszt was always on to something new, throwing his compositional spear into new realms, and continually reinventing himself.
Why is it that so many PW members confuse talent with genius?
Maybe because Rachmaninov's three symphonies and Symphonic Dances are far greater works than any of Liszt's (including his symphonic poems)? And that Rachmaninov's concertante works for piano and orchestra are immeasurably greater than any of Liszt's?
And Rachmaninov's 'The Bells' is much better than Liszt's Christus?
Need I say more?
Or am I just 'confused', because Brendel (and you) says so?
I find it inexplicably astounding that anyone could rate Rachmaninov a greater composer than Liszt. Rachmaninov had his limited bag of tricks which he expertly manipulated and recyled, but Liszt was always on to something new, throwing his compositional spear into new realms, and continually reinventing himself.
Why is it that so many PW members confuse talent with genius?
Maybe because Rachmaninov's three symphonies are far greater works than any of Liszt's (including his symphonic poems)? And that Rachmaninov's concertante works for piano and orchestra are immeasurably greater than any of Liszt's?
I wouldn't go so far as "immeasurably greater," but it's true that Liszt never wrote an orchestral work as great as Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony, and his concertos cannot compare with Rach's 2nd and 3rd.
Now let's see Jason argue the superiority of the vapid Liszt 1st concerto over the Rach 3rd.
However, what I will say is that Chopin surpassed them both.
Originally Posted by bennevis
Maybe because Rachmaninov's three symphonies are far greater works than any of Liszt's (including his symphonic poems)?
Originally Posted by bennevis
And Rachmaninov's 'The Bells' is much better than Liszt's Christus?
WHAT. I'd take Christus based on the Stabat Mater Dolorosa alone.
Originally Posted by bennevis
And that Rachmaninov's concertante works for piano and orchestra are immeasurably greater than any of Liszt's?
His 2nd and 3rd PC's, yes (3rd is one of my favourite pieces of music, and I love the 2nd although I prefer Liszt's 2nd). For me, Totentanz > Paganini. I like Rachmaninoff's 1st and 4th about as much as I like Liszt's lesser pieces for p&o: De Profundis, Malediction, PC 3, and less than PC #1.
Originally Posted by bennevis
Rachmaninov's chamber music (especially his cello sonata) is far better than any of Liszt's.
True.
Originally Posted by bennevis
And his songs are far better than any of Liszt's.
For me:
Solo piano: Liszt >>>>>> Rach. Orchestra: Tie. Choral: Tie. Song: Liszt > Rach. Chamber Rach >>>>>> Liszt. Piano/Orc: Rach >>> Liszt. Organ: Liszt >>>>>> Rach.
Liszt was a far greater innovator. Liszt wins
Of course, this is all meaningless and subjective.
I don't mean to denigrate Rachmaninoff: indeed, he is one of my favourite composers. The 3rd PC and the Isle of the Dead are two of my favourite works in their respective genres.
Solo piano: Liszt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rach. Orchestra: Tie. Choral: Tie. Song: Liszt > Rach. Chamber Rach >>>>>> Liszt. Piano/Orc: Rach >>> Liszt. Organ: Liszt >>>>>> Rach.
Your solo piano rating for Liszt is way too high (you can't just base it on one piece), and your piano/orchestra rating for Rach is way too low. And Rach wins for orchestra.
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