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#2170334 - 10/22/13 10:48 PM K3 in bay area
jyspa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 2
Hello everyone,

I am looking for a piano for my daughter. I was told craigslist is good place by her current piano teacher and previous piano teacher - can get good pianos for cheaper price. They said that sometimes people give away for very cheap price just because they don't play it any more, moving etc. But I got tired of looking in Craigslist - the pianos I thought were ok are either almost 1 hr away or very old (to me more than 30 yrs old seem old). So, I now I am wondering what is a decent negotiation price I could bargain for a brand new Kawai 3 in San Jose, CA area. I don't want people to think I am mad if I start too low or feel cheated if I pay more. Anyone bought Kawai 3 in this area recently and please give me an opinion?

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#2170424 - 10/23/13 03:07 AM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1172
Loc: The Netherlands
1hr away is pretty close ain't it?
I'm in Europe where distances are generally much shorter than in the US (at least in the Netherlands which is a bit more crowded wink ) and I consider driving 1hr for a big purchase like a piano as close to nothing.

There seem to be real craigslist wizards on the forum so maybe they could help you out.


Edited by wimpiano (10/23/13 03:07 AM)
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

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#2170436 - 10/23/13 03:59 AM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 805
I'm in SF too. Most of the pianos on CL are pretty old so it can take months to find the piano you were looking for there.

Talking prices on this board is unofficially forbidden. Many of the users here are industry people and they don't like consumers to share information and increase our chances of getting a fair deal. So have fun in the shark tank. (JAWS music).

However, I would change the oil, rotate the tires and journey a whole HOUR to Berkeley and visit DC Pianos. They're the Kawai dealer where I got mine. And there's no sharks there. The "shop in SJ" wasn't able to match their price. The lady there was very nice, no complaints about them, but their quote was about 50% higher, and I was buying a 6'6" grand.

And I like the family that runs DC Pianos. It's not a fancy shop, but they have a good stock of new Kawai's. The owner isn't a professional salesman so if you're expecting him to tell you what to do and play games with you then you'll be disappointed. He started out rebuilding pianos in his garage and I think running a delivery service. But now he has a real shop and is an authorized Kawai dealer and has most of their new pianos. Ask him for his best price and he'll give it to you.

While you're in Berkeley, go to R. Kassman just a couple minutes away and jam on some of his pianos. But expect the traditional piano shopping experience there.

BTW...search on this board. I remember several people buying K3's and breaking the golden rule of no price sharing. I'm sure they got slapped around a bit.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2170500 - 10/23/13 07:59 AM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Jyspa - Welcome to Piano World!

I've never sensed a restriction about discussing prices at Piano World. The only restriction is in reference to dealers who try to market their own pianos. For the general membership, it is discussed all the time and I think that's great.

Half of the fun of the search is getting to know the various dealers in your area and also the chance to play lots of different brands of piano.

About the price of a K3 in your area, hopefully there will be some members who have some recent experience.

BTW - Have you discovered the "A&D Piano Buyer?" It is a guide for the piano buyer and has details about all of the available brands and models of pianos. Pricing is included and also explanations about what you should reasonably expect to pay for a given piano. On the right side of this page is a link to the free online edition.

Have fun with your quest!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170624 - 10/23/13 12:50 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 805
There was a thread just a few weeks ago when someone also asked about prices. And Rickster used the word taboo, but I guess he meant the dealers don't like it when we share pricing info with each other since different dealers have different profit expectations.

So the standard answer is to use A&D Piano Buyer, but I found useless for Kawai and Yamaha prices in the SF Bay Area. Even the low-end of it's range was way more than initial asking/sticker prices here. Other than the pricing guide, the book is a pretty good reference.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2170645 - 10/23/13 01:30 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: michaelha]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 876
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: michaelh


Talking prices on this board is unofficially forbidden.



No it's not. And it's in the repeating this myth that it picks up its aura of quasi-officialness. Rickster doesn't personally like it outside of his role as a moderator but OFFICIALLY, members that choose to are free to talk about price and hopefully without new members being made to feel that they've stepped on someone's unofficial toes if you'll excuse my bluntness.

IF I remember correctly, one activity that has been banned is using PW to accumulate buyers for group sales.

There's a lot of price pressure on Yamaha and Kawai pianos in the bay area. By actually going out and visiting piano dealers and getting quotes, the OP should be able to obtain a very fair price.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2170651 - 10/23/13 01:52 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2292
Loc: SoCal
My first offer would be $5700. If they say no, leave and give them time to think it over. You think it over, too. The K-3 is a good piano. You want free delivery and two tunings, also. Best of luck.
_________________________
Gary

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#2170658 - 10/23/13 02:09 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: KurtZ]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 805
Originally Posted By: KurtZ

No it's not. And it's in the repeating this myth that it picks up its aura of quasi-officialness.


I know, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly. If you post the prices you paid, especially if it was a really good price you may be accused as being a dealer in disguise, a troll, a liar. You'll be discredited and your career here on PW will be over. smile

Related to that, if you ask how to negotiate with dealers and you say something the dealers don't like, they'll slap you around a bit and get you back in line.

So if you don't want to get slapped around, it's hush about prices and negotiating techniques. So if you can't find a dealer you're comfortable with just keep looking on Craigslist.

Re Craigslist. Download Craigslist Peek. Use binary operators like "-" to remove stuff you don't want, eg. "kawai -digital". Bookmark your search query so you don't have to type it in each time.

Re: $5700, Just saw an ad on CL where a dealer quoted $4500.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msd/4143452685.html
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2170662 - 10/23/13 02:21 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 805
Oh forgot, OR operators are pretty handy too. OR operators are the pipe character, "|". It's above my return key on my macbook. And use parentheses to isolate expressions.

(kawai | yamaha) (k-3 | k3 | u1 | u-1) -digital -electronic -portable

So this is saying: Kawai or Yamaha, and k3 or k-3 or u1 or u-1., and not digital, and not electronic, and not portable.

I think eBay and Google also handle similar expressions. Also, don't search in musical instruments. Some people put their pianos in the furniture section...lol.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2170678 - 10/23/13 03:08 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: michaelha]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: michaelh
If you post the prices you paid, especially if it was a really good price you may be accused as being a dealer in disguise, a troll, a liar. You'll be discredited and your career here on PW will be over.

Absurd!

Originally Posted By: michaelh
Related to that, if you ask how to negotiate with dealers and you say something the dealers don't like, they'll slap you around a bit and get you back in line.

Unbelievably Absurd!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2170691 - 10/23/13 03:22 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 805
Not absurd. I have the bruises to prove it.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2170698 - 10/23/13 03:34 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Caowner2013 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/13
Posts: 79
Hi Jyspa,

I live in the SJ area and am familiar with Carnes. Very nice dealer who let us play all their pianos. The lady (forgot her name) was very helpful and patient.

Please take a look at "Pianobuyers.com" and look at the pricing information. It does a good job of showing the K-3 MSRP and then the potential discount price. More discount may be possible depending on the specific dealer.

If time permits, please do consider a weekend visit to R Kassman or Yamaha Peninsula just to play the different brands.

Good luck and enjoy your hunt!




Edited by Caowner2013 (10/23/13 03:35 PM)

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#2171786 - 10/25/13 11:38 AM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
It's 'Darlene.'

I got a very fair price on my RX-5, and very excellent aftercare, including a referral to a very fine tech to care for my piano, and a favorable quote to move my piano a second time, to a new residence.

These things don't excuse buyers from doing their own research and comparison shopping. There is no substitute... unless the OP has a high tolerance for anxiety and buyer's remorse. But these items are just as available in Berkeley as they are in San Jose. It is best to rely on one's own experience, rather than to depend strictly on another person's word.

If you're going there anyway, you might like to look over the Charles Walter models, which offer a somewhat different take on supplying the same need as the K-3. However, the K-3 is not at all a bad choice in a console piano.

Good luck to you. If you make the grand tour, it would be interesting to hear more about your experience.
_________________________
Clef


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#2171895 - 10/25/13 03:31 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Oasismfg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 118
Loc: So Cal
Hmmm...Over on the Digital Pianos forum they have a sticky thread titled "Digital Pianos "Prices Paid"", with 783 posts of people sharing their purchase price experience. Why would it be ok over there, but not on the Pianos Forum?

Bruises to prove it? That sounds a bit over the top.


Edited by Oasismfg (10/25/13 03:31 PM)

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#2171909 - 10/25/13 04:02 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: Plowboy]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10457
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
My first offer would be $5700. If they say no, leave and give them time to think it over. You think it over, too. The K-3 is a good piano. You want free delivery and two tunings, also. Best of luck.


Free delivery is a myth. Truth is some dealers like to merge the anticipated delivery into the selling price, other prefer it be calculated separate. Out of necessity most dealers who include it lean toward a higher cost to cover those shopper who don't live close by.

At our store we separate it out as well feel it makes it easier for the shopper to compare our prices with that of other dealers. We are located just behind BWI Airport near Baltimore. Only about 1/2 our deliveries are within 20 miles of the showroom. Most of the rest are in the DC/No. VA market and my delivery costs are higher than dealers who are closer. However, our selling prices are significantly lower.

IMO, the most transparent way to do business is to delineate elements of the sale to enable shopper an opportunity for accurate price comparison.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2171912 - 10/25/13 04:05 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: jyspa]
Amy B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 78
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I would like to recommend Bozkurt at San Mateo Piano. I purchased my Shigeru Kawai about a year ago, and he was the salesperson that sold it to me. He has since opened his own store in San Mateo. I visited pretty much all of the piano dealers within a 1.5 hour radius of my house, and found Bozkurt to be highly knowledgeable about pianos, very ethical, and very pleasant to work with. He currently carries new Kawai pianos.


Edited by Amy B (10/26/13 02:25 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK6 (as of 10/22/12!!)
Ivers and Pond upright
MTNA, CAPMT

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#2171959 - 10/25/13 05:19 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: Amy B]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1528
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: Amy B
I would like to recommend Bozkurt at San Mateo Piano. I purchased my Shigeru Kawai about a year ago, and he was the salesperson that sold it to me. He has since opened his own store in San Mateo. I visited pretty much all of the piano dealers within a 1.5 radius of my house, and found Bozkurt to be highly knowledgeable about pianos, very ethical, and very pleasant to work with. He currently carries new Kawai pianos.


+1

Great, great guy.

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#2172562 - 10/26/13 11:30 PM Re: K3 in bay area [Re: Furtwangler]
jyspa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 2
Thank you everyone. I have decided to get the A&D Piano Buyer and go to further stores than San Jose area (already covered SJ). I will also in the mean time keep an eye on Craigslist for any good pianos (not too old). We are in no hurry, so hopefully by 6 months time I will have a nice piano at home.

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