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#2170716 - 10/23/13 03:54 PM What would you do
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
What would you do if there's only a couple days before a competition or recital, and you realized that you've been playing a note wrong (something that can't really be noticed much, but might mess up your playing of that section when you fix it at top speed) for months. Would you attempt to fix it, or leave it as it is so nothing gets messed up?
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

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#2170734 - 10/23/13 04:30 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Leave it. It that happens to me, chances are I'll be hitting many wrong notes anyway, so what's one more... Haha
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2170736 - 10/23/13 04:34 PM Re: What would you do [Re: Pogorelich.]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Leave it. It that happens to me, chances are I'll be hitting many wrong notes anyway, so what's one more... Haha


smile


Edited by A Guy (10/23/13 04:35 PM)
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2170737 - 10/23/13 04:39 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5148
One misreading?

There are a number of studio recordings by great pianists that contain misreadings. Which means that not only the pianists but the recording producers missed them too.

Others just leave wrong notes in for posterity grin.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2170743 - 10/23/13 04:54 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
Yeah, it seems minor, but I'm just wondering, if you noticed it, would you attempt to fix it, or just leave it? Since its not a huge mess up
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2170746 - 10/23/13 04:55 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 564
Loc: Germany
The problem: If you play a wrong note in a recital and you know it's wrong, it might influence the rest of the performance.

I'd say: Try practicing it once or twice with the "correct" note, and if it doesn't work, stick with what you know.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2170756 - 10/23/13 05:11 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5148
Originally Posted By: A Guy
Yeah, it seems minor, but I'm just wondering, if you noticed it, would you attempt to fix it, or just leave it? Since its not a huge mess up

Forget about it.

Fix it afterwards, if you intend to play it again. Don't mess up your hard-learnt muscle memory for the sake of one note and put your recital in jeopardy - one moment of hesitation while you debate between two notes can derail the whole piece, so why risk it?
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2170761 - 10/23/13 05:26 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2630
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Turn it into the perfect wrong note! Clearly, the note you've been playing all this time fits musically in the piece otherwise you would have noticed it a long time ago. So, let it be and think of it as an ossia.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2170766 - 10/23/13 05:43 PM Re: What would you do [Re: jazzyprof]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Turn it into the perfect wrong note! Clearly, the note you've been playing all this time fits musically in the piece otherwise you would have noticed it a long time ago. So, let it be and think of it as an ossia.


+1 exactly what I thought. If you've been studying this piece assiduously for months and only just noticed like anyone in the audience will.
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#2170839 - 10/23/13 08:19 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
Ok thanks everyone! And btw, it's a Prokofiev sonata smile and the wrong note was a b flat plus c instead of a b flat and a flat. Also, my competitions in 2 weeks, not a couple days, but I've got a performance in a couple days


Edited by A Guy (10/23/13 08:20 PM)
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2170846 - 10/23/13 08:41 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7606
Loc: New York City
In a Prokofiev sonata, one wrong note is not going to make much of a difference. Only those who have studied the piece (and not even all of those) will hear it, and if they do they'll probably just think it was a key slip.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2170856 - 10/23/13 09:03 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
Thanks!
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2170921 - 10/23/13 11:36 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Everybody here is right.
But when that happened to me once, I didn't follow what y'all are saying.

While I was in the warm-up room before going onstage in a competition, I noticed that the score of Chopin's F minor Fantaisie showed one note slightly different in an accompaniment figure than what I'd been playing -- dunno, maybe something like an Eb instead of a C in an arpeggiated thing. So, I figured I'd play it the right way when I got up there -- why the heck not. And I did -- but it probably kept me from playing the whole rest of the piece as freely and as well as I might have.

It was dumb. Especially because later on, I saw that my old wrong way wasn't really wrong -- it was just a thing of different versions in different editions. ha

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#2170958 - 10/24/13 12:50 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Auntie Lynn Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1106
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice - if it's Vers la Flamme, probably not...

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#2170969 - 10/24/13 01:10 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Auntie Lynn]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7606
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Auntie Lynn
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice.

You'd be surprised...
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2170971 - 10/24/13 01:14 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Auntie Lynn]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Auntie Lynn
....if it's Vers la Flamme, probably not...

You'd be surprised. grin

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#2170973 - 10/24/13 01:16 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]
pianorigami Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 290
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Auntie Lynn
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice.

You'd be surprised...

I agree with Polyphonist. Beethoven has thick textures a lot of the time; Mozart, on the other hand, or Scarlatti (for the most part), have thin, super-exposed textures that need to be hit perfectly.

As for the Prokofiev, I probably hit 80-90% of the notes when I play it, but as long as the message is there, the judge won't mind TOO much.
_________________________
Currently working on:
1) Chopin Etudes Op. 10; Scherzo Op. 54
2) Beethoven Sonata Op. 53
3) Prokofiev Sonata Op. 83
4) Bach Prelude and Fugue in f# minor, WTC II
5) Grieg Concerto, Op. 16
6) Schubert Impromptu Op. 90 no. 3
7) Debussy Images, Book I

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#2170981 - 10/24/13 01:29 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2352
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: A Guy
What would you do if there's only a couple days before a competition or recital, and you realized that you've been playing a note wrong (something that can't really be noticed much, but might mess up your playing of that section when you fix it at top speed) for months. Would you attempt to fix it, or leave it as it is so nothing gets messed up?


Sviatoslav Richter played the same wrong note in Bach's Italian Concerto for decades. When he discovered it, he made his record label issue an apology with subsequent printings. In the apology he notes that in forty years, no one had said anything to him about the wrong note!

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#2171068 - 10/24/13 07:46 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
@pianorigami: oh I can never play all the notes right in Prokofiev either smile
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2171075 - 10/24/13 07:55 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
jehalliday Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I also vote for "leave it". This happened recently to me - just 5 days before my RCM GR 10 exam, I realized I had been playing a wrong note in a Chopin nocturne. I had previously played this piece in recitals, music festivals and adjudicators and no one, including my teacher,had ever noticed. It did sound harmonically correct. I left it and the examiner made no comment either. In fact, this piece earned my highest mark in the exam, wrong note and all. Trying to fix it at that stage can cause far more noticeable problems than a wrong note

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#2171148 - 10/24/13 09:56 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1417
Loc: Georgia, USA
This has happened to me more frequently that I like, and I thought it was my age or bad eyesight - usually in a thick chord where an inner note is wrong. My teacher is very good at pointing these out to me, but it's disconcerting that she can hear the errors and I can't. Of course, she's usually been teaching these pieces for decades.

Nice to see that other people have the same problem.

Sam

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#2171163 - 10/24/13 10:21 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10371
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I was listening to an Arrau recording of Debussy's Suite Pour le Piano a few years ago, back when my son was working up the piece. I was very familiar with the score at that point. To my shock and surprise, Arrau completely changed one of the ending chords. This wasn't some random note in a rapid wash of sound. It was a single chord played firmly and majestically .... wrong. It was the sort of thing that caused the proverbial double take. I had to replay it several times to believe that he had just misread, or changed, what Debussy wrote.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2171193 - 10/24/13 11:03 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Piano*Dad]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7606
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I was listening to an Arrau recording of Debussy's Suite Pour le Piano a few years ago, back when my son was working up the piece. I was very familiar with the score at that point. To my shock and surprise, Arrau completely changed one of the ending chords. This wasn't some random note in a rapid wash of sound. It was a single chord played firmly and majestically .... wrong. It was the sort of thing that caused the proverbial double take. I had to replay it several times to believe that he had just misread, or changed, what Debussy wrote.

Pity. I guess he should have listened to some recordings then. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2171210 - 10/24/13 11:42 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5148
Misreadings are not at all uncommon, even on recordings preserved for posterity.

There's one in Jean-Philippe Collard's recording of Ravel's G major Concerto, another in Radu Lupu's of Brahms's Op.118, and there was a wrong note in Martha Argerich's recording of Chopin's 24 Preludes (beginning of No.16) - though that was patched up on its CD reissue. Many of Daniel Barenboim's recordings have minor fluffs left in (I assume they were fluffs rather than misreadings).

And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2171523 - 10/24/13 10:21 PM Re: What would you do [Re: bennevis]
Ridicolosamente Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Miami, Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: pianorigami
...I probably hit 80-90% of the notes when I play it, but as long as the message is there, the judge won't mind TOO much.
Umm.. that's a LOT of wrong notes. Like... too many for any kind of serious performance.

Originally Posted By: bennevis
...and there was a wrong note in Martha Argerich's recording of Chopin's 24 Preludes (beginning of No.16)
I typically don't mind a flub or six... but this one in particular always irked me. And the "patch" never satisfied me because it's impossible to ignore that it is a patch.

-Daniel
_________________________
Currently working on:
-Dane Rudhyar's Stars from Pentagrams No 3

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#2171524 - 10/24/13 10:29 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top
#2171530 - 10/24/13 10:49 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]
pianorigami Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 290
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.
_________________________
Currently working on:
1) Chopin Etudes Op. 10; Scherzo Op. 54
2) Beethoven Sonata Op. 53
3) Prokofiev Sonata Op. 83
4) Bach Prelude and Fugue in f# minor, WTC II
5) Grieg Concerto, Op. 16
6) Schubert Impromptu Op. 90 no. 3
7) Debussy Images, Book I

Top
#2171533 - 10/24/13 10:51 PM Re: What would you do [Re: pianorigami]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7606
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianorigami
Originally Posted By: A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.

Last time I performed this piece, I missed 98% of the notes. Goes to show you how difficult it is.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2171570 - 10/25/13 12:11 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 267
Loc: St Louis
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianorigami
Originally Posted By: A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.

Last time I performed this piece, I missed 98% of the notes. Goes to show you how difficult it is.


Haha, 98%... Yeah this piece is PRETTY difficult (and by pretty I mean very)
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

Top

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