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#2172027 - 10/25/13 07:52 PM Cell phones... What would you do in this situation?
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 813
Loc: New England, USA
[EDIT: Sorry, I did not see the other post on this very topic further down]

During a recent Haydn piano concert in Sweden a cell phone rang TWICE ...

Here is a video that shows how the pianist/conductor Christian Zacharias handled the situation the second time the phone rang. Kudos to him for handling it this well!!! Forgetting to turn off your phone in the first place is bad, but letting it go off a second time...



Edited by Amaruk (10/25/13 08:09 PM)
_________________________
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#2172032 - 10/25/13 07:57 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4933
Loc: USA
Original.

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#2172033 - 10/25/13 08:03 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 335
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.

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#2172035 - 10/25/13 08:10 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: JoelW]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 813
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Original.


I missed that topic. Sorry for the double post.
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2172036 - 10/25/13 08:14 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 813
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


Interesting point and I understand how you see this. To me this is more about respect and not the ability to handle distractions in itself. People pay a lot of money to go to these concerts and for a person to disrespect the other concert goers and above all, the soloist/orchestra, like this is something I find hard to understand.


Edited by Amaruk (10/25/13 08:15 PM)
_________________________
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#2172042 - 10/25/13 08:27 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19646
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.
One could just as well state that far lesser pianists have refused to endure far less. One could argue that the cell phone disruption has already been awkward. I don't think the issue is black and white.




Edited by pianoloverus (10/25/13 08:29 PM)

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#2172144 - 10/26/13 01:59 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


No! People who have no respect for the composer, the music, or the performer and leave their damned cell phones on or just HAVE to text, or cough, or unwrap a piece of candy, or whatever are the worst.
It isn't about who has endured worse. No one should HAVE to endure this kind of thing. One should not HAVE to deal with distractions. It's ridiculous and anyone stating that the performer is creating an awkward instance if completely off base, since it is the AUDIENCE MEMBER creating the instance! DUH! Anyone with such a mindset, clearly, has no experience performing.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2172155 - 10/26/13 02:27 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: stores]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8940
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: stores

No! People who have no respect for the composer, the music, or the performer and leave their damned cell phones on or just HAVE to text, or cough, or unwrap a piece of candy, or whatever are the worst.
It isn't about who has endured worst. No one should HAVE to endure this kind of thing. One should not HAVE to deal with distractions. It's ridiculous and anyone stating that the performer is creating an awkward instance if completely off base, since it is the AUDIENCE MEMBER creating the instance! DUH! Anyone with such a mindset, clearly, has no experience performing.

Whew! Coffee tomorrow?
_________________________
Jason

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#2172169 - 10/26/13 03:21 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: stores]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 335
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


No! People who have no respect for the composer, the music, or the performer and leave their damned cell phones on or just HAVE to text, or cough, or unwrap a piece of candy, or whatever are the worst.
It isn't about who has endured worst. No one should HAVE to endure this kind of thing. One should not HAVE to deal with distractions. It's ridiculous and anyone stating that the performer is creating an awkward instance if completely off base, since it is the AUDIENCE MEMBER creating the instance! DUH! Anyone with such a mindset, clearly, has no experience performing.


I think we can agree it is the fault of the audience member, but to stop dead in the middle of a piece when you are CLEARLY able to continue is just ridiculous. If you want to play with no distractions, stick to the recordings studio (Or better yet your living room). Even worse are certain world class performers (*Cough* Schiff *Cough* Brendull *Cough*) who stop dead in the middle of concerts and scold the audience for their "misbehavior". Imagine if Hoffmann, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Ricter etc. had done such things. (P.s. I have performed quite a bit, but I'm still a high school student so it doesn't count grin)

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#2172180 - 10/26/13 04:03 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
rxd Online   happy
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1838
Loc: London, England
A pianist once went seamlessly into an improvisation on the cellphone tune in the same style as the piece being played, then just as seamlessly returned us all to the mood of the program.

The best reminder I heard was just before each concert at the "proms" series.

It starts off as a quiet cellphone sound that gradually gets louder as everyone either looks round in disgust or checks their own phones. Eventually it gets loud enough that it can't be an ordinary phone. Then it stops and everybody realises and is pleasantly reminded. There is always a little laughter.

No words are ever spoken. None needed.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.

"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2172207 - 10/26/13 06:26 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8030
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Imagine if Hoffmann, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Ricter etc. had done such things. (P.s. I have performed quite a bit, but I'm still a high school student so it doesn't count grin)


Those pianists performed before cell phones were invented. But, since you're still in high school, you wouldn't have any experience with that kind of world.

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#2172210 - 10/26/13 06:40 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8030
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst.


They are the best. And the smartest.

Because they know that what they are doing is supported by the majority of people in the audience, and it is a message to any potential miscreants that public humiliation is a distinct possibility if they don't know how to act.

There is always the possibility that the problem person in the audience is getting some perverse and pathological enjoyment from disrupting a concert. I've had the distinct impression a few times that when a person is making noise during a classical concert, it's coming from some kind of infantile need for attention on the part of a vastly over-entitled and self-absorbed idiot. They just can't bear that the person on stage is getting all that wonderful attention, and they are getting none at all. So they make disruptive noises.

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#2172223 - 10/26/13 08:18 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12247
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Amaruk
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


Interesting point and I understand how you see this. To me this is more about respect and not the ability to handle distractions in itself. People pay a lot of money to go to these concerts and for a person to disrespect the other concert goers and above all, the soloist/orchestra, like this is something I find hard to understand.
I think it said this was the 2nd time the phone went off. I would have let the first time go, but if it happens again? Come on. You can have it on vibrate.
_________________________
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2172240 - 10/26/13 09:04 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: ScriabinAddict]
Alan Lai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 309
Loc: USA/Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


No! People who have no respect for the composer, the music, or the performer and leave their damned cell phones on or just HAVE to text, or cough, or unwrap a piece of candy, or whatever are the worst.
It isn't about who has endured worst. No one should HAVE to endure this kind of thing. One should not HAVE to deal with distractions. It's ridiculous and anyone stating that the performer is creating an awkward instance if completely off base, since it is the AUDIENCE MEMBER creating the instance! DUH! Anyone with such a mindset, clearly, has no experience performing.


I think we can agree it is the fault of the audience member, but to stop dead in the middle of a piece when you are CLEARLY able to continue is just ridiculous. If you want to play with no distractions, stick to the recordings studio (Or better yet your living room). Even worse are certain world class performers (*Cough* Schiff *Cough* Brendull *Cough*) who stop dead in the middle of concerts and scold the audience for their "misbehavior". Imagine if Hoffmann, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Ricter etc. had done such things. (P.s. I have performed quite a bit, but I'm still a high school student so it doesn't count grin)

I was planning to type a long and mean reply.

But as I was finishing the post I see you are just a high-schooler. So I abandoned my plan.

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#2172244 - 10/26/13 09:12 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Alan Lai]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Alan Lai
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst. Far greater pianists have endured far worse, and stopping cold not only makes it very awkward, but it demonstrates your inability to deal with the faintest distraction.


No! People who have no respect for the composer, the music, or the performer and leave their damned cell phones on or just HAVE to text, or cough, or unwrap a piece of candy, or whatever are the worst.
It isn't about who has endured worst. No one should HAVE to endure this kind of thing. One should not HAVE to deal with distractions. It's ridiculous and anyone stating that the performer is creating an awkward instance if completely off base, since it is the AUDIENCE MEMBER creating the instance! DUH! Anyone with such a mindset, clearly, has no experience performing.


I think we can agree it is the fault of the audience member, but to stop dead in the middle of a piece when you are CLEARLY able to continue is just ridiculous. If you want to play with no distractions, stick to the recordings studio (Or better yet your living room). Even worse are certain world class performers (*Cough* Schiff *Cough* Brendull *Cough*) who stop dead in the middle of concerts and scold the audience for their "misbehavior". Imagine if Hoffmann, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Ricter etc. had done such things. (P.s. I have performed quite a bit, but I'm still a high school student so it doesn't count grin)

I was planning to type a long and mean reply.

But as I was finishing the post I see you are just a high-schooler. So I abandoned my plan.



Why would that change your reply?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2172252 - 10/26/13 09:29 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: wr]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: wr

There is always the possibility that the problem person in the audience is getting some perverse and pathological enjoyment from disrupting a concert. I've had the distinct impression a few times that when a person is making noise during a classical concert, it's coming from some kind of infantile need for attention on the part of a vastly over-entitled and self-absorbed idiot. They just can't bear that the person on stage is getting all that wonderful attention, and they are getting none at all. So they make disruptive noises.

That's quite a stretch. Maybe we should leave that sort of analysis to Mark C.

I think many of these disruptions come from people who are on call. I work in IT, and just like the medical profession, we are often on call 24x7. There is no option to simply leave the cell phone at home, because, in my own case, a response is required within 15 minutes or additional pages will begin escalating to upper management.

But the solution is as simple as Morodiene has said: Turn the damned sound settings to vibrate.

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#2172254 - 10/26/13 09:32 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: wr]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7781
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
People who stop cold in concerts to "handle" disruptions are the worst.


They are the best. And the smartest.

Because they know that what they are doing is supported by the majority of people in the audience, and it is a message to any potential miscreants that public humiliation is a distinct possibility if they don't know how to act.

There is always the possibility that the problem person in the audience is getting some perverse and pathological enjoyment from disrupting a concert. I've had the distinct impression a few times that when a person is making noise during a classical concert, it's coming from some kind of infantile need for attention on the part of a vastly over-entitled and self-absorbed idiot. They just can't bear that the person on stage is getting all that wonderful attention, and they are getting none at all. So they make disruptive noises.


These people need to be put in a mental hospital.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2172258 - 10/26/13 09:45 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
Mken Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 96
You should look up griefing.

Where people go into games purely to disrupt and annoy other people. This behaviour extends into the real world too.
_________________________
I want to be so good at Piano like VK, that Roland gives me a free piano too!

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#2172262 - 10/26/13 09:52 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Old Man]
Alan Lai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 309
Loc: USA/Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: wr

There is always the possibility that the problem person in the audience is getting some perverse and pathological enjoyment from disrupting a concert. I've had the distinct impression a few times that when a person is making noise during a classical concert, it's coming from some kind of infantile need for attention on the part of a vastly over-entitled and self-absorbed idiot. They just can't bear that the person on stage is getting all that wonderful attention, and they are getting none at all. So they make disruptive noises.

That's quite a stretch. Maybe we should leave that sort of analysis to Mark C.

I think many of these disruptions come from people who are on call. I work in IT, and just like the medical profession, we are often on call 24x7. There is no option to simply leave the cell phone at home, because, in my own case, a response is required within 15 minutes or additional pages will begin escalating to upper management.

But the solution is as simple as Morodiene has said: Turn the damned sound settings to vibrate.

The 24 hour on-call is not even an excuse, as per your last sentence: set it to vibrate.

I actually turn my smartphone OFF during concerts. How many of the audiences do that?

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#2172264 - 10/26/13 09:57 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Mken]
Alan Lai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 309
Loc: USA/Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: Mken
You should look up griefing.

Where people go into games purely to disrupt and annoy other people. This behaviour extends into the real world too.


I don't think TK or griefing is the same. Those people (TKer or griefers) have the intention to irritate and damage normal online gameplay. The anonymity of internet fuels such behavior.

In concert halls, first of all, they are all REAL people with their own face. It's some kind of social gathering. I, till today, still tend to think those people disrupting concerts are mostly not intended to do so, just temporarily forgot to turn the phone off.

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#2172278 - 10/26/13 10:16 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1131
Judging from the type of music being presented at the time, and the prominence of the ring-tone, I think that in this case Zacharias was quite justified in simply stopping the performance midstream -- for me, the ring-tone absolutely wrecked the expressive sense of the piece at that point. And, I thought that he was spot-on in his explanation of his decision, and very reasonable in tone -- there simply are times when you should not grin-and-bear-it. For me, this was one of those times. I saw no sense whatever of a "prima donna" attitude in him.

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#2172293 - 10/26/13 11:02 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Alan Lai]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19878
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Alan Lai
The 24 hour on-call is not even an excuse, as per your last sentence: set it to vibrate.

I actually turn my smartphone OFF during concerts. How many of the audiences do that?

I'm surprised that some members feel it's OK to have your cell phone on at all in the audience. "Vibrate" is no good either.

If you're on call or otherwise must have your phone on, don't come to the concert. (Even if it were mine.) ha
I didn't think my idea of concerts was so archaic. IMO if you absolutely need to have the phone on, you don't belong there.

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#2172327 - 10/26/13 11:59 AM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
IMO if you absolutely need to have the phone on, you don't belong there.

It's been 6 or 7 years since I've seen a live classical music performance, so count me as fully compliant with your wishes.

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#2172416 - 10/26/13 03:08 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6258
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
IMO if you absolutely need to have the phone on, you don't belong there.


Ditto.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2172431 - 10/26/13 03:50 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Amaruk]
Lemon Pledge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 353
As a listener, I don't need a distractionless and silent atmosphere in order to enjoy the music, but I wouldn't fault a performer for stopping due to a noise, even a minor one. That's his choice.

The reaction of the offender's neighbors is sometimes funny, and often more distracting than the distraction itself. The stern glances, the sighs, the pearl-clutching... anyone get the sense that some people enjoy this a little too much? Occasionally some helpful individual will actually throw a "Shhh!" at some guy who's discreetly unwrapping a lozenge or convulsing as he tries to suppress a cough. Yeah, maybe he should have stayed home, but he didn't.

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#2172442 - 10/26/13 04:23 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Lemon Pledge]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5594
How did people survive in the era before cell phones? That is, less than two decades ago.

How did we get to the stage where people think they are so important that they have to be contactable at all times 24/7?

Some people need a reality check.....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2172489 - 10/26/13 06:34 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Old Man]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8030
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: wr

There is always the possibility that the problem person in the audience is getting some perverse and pathological enjoyment from disrupting a concert. I've had the distinct impression a few times that when a person is making noise during a classical concert, it's coming from some kind of infantile need for attention on the part of a vastly over-entitled and self-absorbed idiot. They just can't bear that the person on stage is getting all that wonderful attention, and they are getting none at all. So they make disruptive noises.

That's quite a stretch. Maybe we should leave that sort of analysis to Mark C.

I think many of these disruptions come from people who are on call. I work in IT, and just like the medical profession, we are often on call 24x7. There is no option to simply leave the cell phone at home, because, in my own case, a response is required within 15 minutes or additional pages will begin escalating to upper management.

But the solution is as simple as Morodiene has said: Turn the damned sound settings to vibrate.


I was thinking of the coughers, not the cell abusers, because coughs had come up in the post I was responding to. I don't think the pathology of the cellphone noise-makers is quite the same (but it may be related).

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#2172517 - 10/26/13 08:54 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Mark_C]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Alan Lai
The 24 hour on-call is not even an excuse, as per your last sentence: set it to vibrate.

I actually turn my smartphone OFF during concerts. How many of the audiences do that?

I'm surprised that some members feel it's OK to have your cell phone on at all in the audience. "Vibrate" is no good either.

If you're on call or otherwise must have your phone on, don't come to the concert. (Even if it were mine.) ha
I didn't think my idea of concerts was so archaic. IMO if you absolutely need to have the phone on, you don't belong there.


+111111111111111111111
THANK YOU!!!!!!
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2172518 - 10/26/13 08:54 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: bennevis]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: bennevis
How did people survive in the era before cell phones? That is, less than two decades ago.

How did we get to the stage where people think they are so important that they have to be contactable at all times 24/7?

Some people need a reality check.....


+11111111
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2172528 - 10/26/13 09:38 PM Re: Cell phones... What would you do in this situation? [Re: Old Man]
Alan Lai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 309
Loc: USA/Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
IMO if you absolutely need to have the phone on, you don't belong there.

It's been 6 or 7 years since I've seen a live classical music performance, so count me as fully compliant with your wishes.

Thank you. Good for you!

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Upright - felt under bridle strap hole necessary?
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oteq

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