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#2184948 - 11/19/13 05:59 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
sydnal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 126
Struggling with legato thirds where one finger is on a black key and the other white.. Any suggestions other than play it very slowly until you can do it?
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#2184957 - 11/19/13 06:53 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2437
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Legato thirds are tough. I'm not a teacher but I've been playing for years.

One of the best ways of avoiding special technical exercises like Czerny or Hanon is to make exercises out of the passages you find difficult. This has the benefit of being specific to something you can't already do, something that you need to do (giving you incentive to learn), and when you're done you get the reward of making a difficult piece easier.

I would practise this by alternating 5-3 with 4-2 and using more arm and wrist than fingers on 5-3, then alternating 3-1 with 4-2 with wrist on 3-1. I would go slow enough that you feel your fingers on the keys before you play each pair and deliberately and consciously sound both notes together. Try not to move the fingers any more than you need (at all if you can), drop the arm on 5-3 and raise the wrist as you pivot/glide onto 4-2.

The moment you take this at a comfortable speed without getting both notes sounding together it stops adding benefit and starts introducing poor technique. Don't spend too long on it but let sleep increase the facility. Your brain will sort out how best to move your fingers while you sleep. This is one of the reasons why scales and Hanon aren't good without a teacher and lots of playing experience.

When the exercise starts feeling comfortable add an extra move: 5-3, 4-2, 3-1, 3-1, 4-2, 3-5. Again involve the wrist more than the fingers and concentrate on sounding each pair together. It's not a speed exercise, it's giving the brain a problem and letting it sort out how to do it while you sleep. This prevents the build up of tension. When it finds a solution (and grows the neural connexions) speed will miraculously appear as fast as the impulses can be responded to.
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#2184960 - 11/19/13 07:04 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
sydnal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 126
Thanks zrtf90, I sort of sensed some wrist movement could help since it feels unnatural/forced when I keep the wrist locked and try to play them with finger muscles alone. I will try the wrist movement you described.
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#2184963 - 11/19/13 07:10 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: sydnal]
Morodiene Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: sydnal
Struggling with legato thirds where one finger is on a black key and the other white.. Any suggestions other than play it very slowly until you can do it?
It depends on what you're doing, really. Can you post a video of the passage in question? It could be whatever finger is collapsing in the first joint on the black key which is somewhat common, which creates unevenness in the sound.

You can try playing the passage alternating the bottom note with the top, then do the top first then the bottom. For example, if the thirds go from E-G to D-F to C-E, you'd play E then G, then D then F, then C then E, then go back and do G to E, F to D, E to C. You can play these evenly and also swinging them long-short then short-long.

This may help, although I'm not quite sure what specific trouble you're having.
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#2184964 - 11/19/13 07:15 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2437
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Yes, organists use their fingers because they're only operating switches without force. Pianists avoid using fingers because we play dynamically and need the weight of the arm to operate through the fingers. When you play 4-2 (from 5-3) it's about transferring weight onto 4-2 not moving them. The muscular effort is on lifting 5-3 just enough to release the keys under them.
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#2184966 - 11/19/13 07:19 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: IreneAdler
Is this piece too much compared to my other pieces...
Have you been through the middle section? If you can play either M24-31 or M45-54 up to or close to tempo, hands separately, within a couple of days you should manage this in the time available. It is one of the easier pieces in the opus which are uniformly Grade 7 ABRSM (though they aren't all the same level technically). Henle marks this as level 4/5. If your teacher gave you the Adagio sostenuto you have the interpretive skills but it's a bit of a march from Op. 39.

If you want it, put your name on it now. It's easier to take your name off later than trying to claim it after someone else has taken it.
__________________________________

There is no requirement to get all these pieces played in this recital. It's more players we want than more pieces but if anyone is looking for difficult second pieces that will need more practise time I would urge you to stake a claim now since uptake has slowed down over the last while.

I'd like to leave Opp. 39 and 40 until December 1 before opening them for seconds.

There have been few responses to earlier suggestions so let me put some more out there and see how folks react...

The size of the works we've been tackling have, at least for me, been a bit of a stretch and have taken time, effort and dedication. If I'm to put that much into it then I'd prefer to have a more appropriate choice for my skills and tastes.

The fact that it IS a themed recital confines my choice enough for me.

Where there's a small collection of works being offered then it's worth having them all shared out but once all the pieces are taken up I see no further benefit in restricting subsequent choices.

Having more than one person play each piece is not enough to create competition in my view. Everything we do, in the classical world, is based on a restricted set of pieces but it's our own interpretation that makes it unique and there has been no sense of competition when popular pieces are entered in the ABF recital by two or more members, but rather been a fun comparison or gone almost unnoticed. It is what the performer does with the material that draws attention not how it compares to someone else's.

The first themed recitals were small in scope, five or six pieces presented by a small group but the Mendelssohn recital showed just how much fun and reward there is in a joint venture and a shared focus and how widely divergent peoples tastes are.

If we chose, for example, to do Debussy's Suite Bergamasque and everyone went for Clair De Lune, that would certainly encourage me to look at the other pieces.

My preference would be to see a list of participants, each with a piece or two they'd like to do, than a list of pieces only available to one person each. In fact I see more benefit from several interpretations.

For second pieces then, I see no need to restrict them to one performer.

Thoughts?



I think it's important that people play whatever calls to them. However, having had to play pieces that I didn't choose for the sake of helping to complete a set, I discovered pieces that weren't on my list of choices and enjoyed them quite a bit (some of them more than what I chose!). In this instance, we are not really doing just a set like we could with Mendelssohn or Grieg, but I do think that perhaps we should try to get certain opera completed (like Op. 39). But certainly since it seems that selection has slowed we could allow people to double-up on pieces and submit more than one of any selection here. I personally would welcome hearing different versions of a piece I worked on.

I have already started work on the entire Op. 2 even though I'm officially down only for No. 1, but if someone else wanted to play any of it, that's fine with me. I think this group is gracious enough to not get competitive about things and be respectful of each person's efforts.
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#2184968 - 11/19/13 07:22 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
sydnal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 126
@Morodiene
Thanks, I am away at work so I don't have access to my dp nor the sheet music at the moment. (Also I wanted to thank you for your help in another topic last week but your inbox seems to be full so I couldn't send a pm. Thank you once more.)
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#2184970 - 11/19/13 07:24 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: sydnal]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: sydnal
@Morodiene
Thanks, I am away at work so I don't have access to my dp nor the sheet music at the moment. (Also I wanted to thank you for your help in another topic last week but your inbox seems to be full so I couldn't send a pm. Thank you once more.)
Oh, thanks for letting me know! I certainly can delete some stuff. smile
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#2184978 - 11/19/13 08:04 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1462
Loc: uk south
-yes, I’m up for multiple submissions of the same piece. Ok, for some there may be a competitive element but there should be a significant pay-off in motivation (to do one’s best!), in the educative benefit of comparison and in luring newcomers who will still have the entire list to choose from.

And, as you say, if everyone’s playing Clair de Lune, I’m going to look for something else…

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#2185883 - 11/20/13 06:05 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2437
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
As there have been no objections in over 24hrs I suggest we go ahead and add names for second pieces where they're wanted.

It's no longer to stake a claim on the piece, but to let everyone know how popular the choices are. It may affect some performers more than others but it is courteous.

I think Morodiene's idea of completing Op. 39 is a good one. I'd consider one of the (as yet) unclaimed ones myself (guess witch one) but I'd still rather see newcomers names on them first. The more experienced can hold off and con them at the eleventh hour.

I don't want to impose any limits as to numbers of pieces but if everyone starts picking up half a dozen pieces we'll never hear the end of it and we're already in excess of 30.
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#2185924 - 11/20/13 08:10 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: dynamobt]
ajames Offline

Gold Supporter until July 24 2015


Registered: 08/25/13
Posts: 107
Loc: Texas
Well I was going to keep procrastinating, but you forced my hand, RIchard. I talked to my teacher about this and he seemed to think it wasn't unreasonable. So I'll give it my best shot...


The Tchaikovsky Themed Recital is due to take place April 15.

To preserve existing selections, always QUOTE from the latest list then, in any order:

-- Delete the initial "[quote=<name> ]"
-- Delete the final "[/quote ]"
-- Add your name and the bold tags, "[b ]" and "[/b ]", around your chosen piece.

Then submit the new list.
A 30sec clip is available of each piece in the same order as below @ Deezer (If you sign up or in with FB, the whole pieces can be played for free)
Or here, if you're restricted from the above due to your location:
All Music
[/i]

Op. 1 No. 1. Scherzo a la russe
Op. 1 No. 2. Impromptu (patH)

Op. 2 No. 1. Ruines d'un chateau (Morodiene)
Op. 2 No. 2. Scherzo
Op. 2 No. 3. Chant sans paroles

Op. 4 Valse caprice in D major
Op. 5 Romance in F minor (Ganddalf)
Op. 7 Valse-scherzo No. 1 in A major
Op. 8 Capriccio in G flat major

Op. 9 No. 1. Reverie
Op. 9 No. 2. Polka de salon
Op. 9 No. 3. Mazurka de salon

Op. 10 No. 1. Nocturne in F major (Valencia)
Op. 10 No. 2. Humoresque in E minor

Op. 19 No. 1. Reverie du soir (Dipsy)
Op. 19 No. 2. Scherzo humoristique
Op. 19 No. 3. Album Leaf (zrtf90)
Op. 19 No. 4. Nocturne (Rupak Bhattacharya)
Op. 19 No. 5. Capriccioso
Op. 19 No. 6. Theme originale et variations

Op. 21 No. 1. Prelude in B major
Op. 21 No. 2. Fugue a 4 voix in G sharp minor
Op. 21 No. 3. Impromptu in C sharp minor
Op. 21 No. 4. Marche funebre in A flat minor
Op. 21 No. 5. Mazurque in A flat minor
Op. 21 No. 6. Scherzo in A flat major

Op. 37 No. 1 January: By the Fireside
Op. 37 No. 2 February: Carnival
Op. 37 No. 3 March: Song of the Lark (SwissMS)
Op. 37 No. 4 April: Snowdrop (Pavel.K)
Op. 37 No. 5 May: White Nights
Op. 37 No. 6 June: Barcarolle (Sam S)
Op. 37 No. 7 July: Song of the Reaper
Op. 37 No. 8 August: The Harvest (dire tonic)
Op. 37 No. 9 September: The Hunt
Op. 37 No. 10 October: Autumn Song (Andy Platt)
Op. 37 No. 11 November: Troika
Op. 37 No. 12 December: Christmas (carlos88)

Op. 39 No. 1. Morning Prayer (casinitaly)
Op. 39 No. 2. Winter Morning
Op. 39 No. 3. Mamma
Op. 39 No. 4. Hobbyhorse
Op. 39 No. 5. The Toy Soldiers' March
Op. 39 No. 6. The New Doll (ClsscLib)
Op. 39 No. 7. The Sick Doll (earlofmar)
Op. 39 No. 8. The Doll's Funeral (ajames)
Op. 39 No. 9. Waltz
Op. 39 No. 10. Polka
Op. 39 No. 11. Mazurka (MrPozor)
Op. 39 No. 12. Russian Song (Johnny D)
Op. 39 No. 13. Peasant Prelude
Op. 39 No. 14. Popular Song
Op. 39 No. 15. Italian Song (sinophilia)
Op. 39 No. 16. Old French Song (Recaredo)
Op. 39 No. 17. German Song (sydnal)
Op. 39 No. 18. Neapolitan Song (IreneAdler)
Op. 39 No. 19. A Nursery Tale
Op. 39 No. 20. The Witch Baba Yaga
Op. 39 No. 21. Sweet Dreams (AimeeO)
Op. 39 No. 22. The Lark (tangleweeds)
Op. 39 No. 23. At Church (AZ_Astro)
Op. 39 No. 24. The Organ-Grinder's Song

Op. 40 No. 1. Etude
Op. 40 No. 2. Chanson triste (Greener)
Op. 40 No. 3. Marche funebre
Op. 40 No. 4. Mazurka in C major
Op. 40 No. 5. Mazurka in D major
Op. 40 No. 6. Chant sans paroles
Op. 40 No. 7. Au village
Op. 40 No. 8. Valse in A flat major (timmyab)
Op. 40 No. 9. Valse in F sharp minor (PikaPianist)
Op. 40 No. 10. Danse russe
Op. 40 No. 11. Scherzo
Op. 40 No. 12. Reverie interrompue

Op. 51 No. 1. Valse de salon
Op. 51 No. 2. Polka peu dansante
Op. 51 No. 3. Menuetto scherzoso
Op. 51 No. 4. Natha-valse
Op. 51 No. 5. Romance
Op. 51 No. 6. Valse sentimentale (lyricmudra)

Op. 72 No. 1. Impromptu (Peterws)
Op. 72 No. 2. Berceuse (MaryBee)
Op. 72 No. 3. Tendres reproches
Op. 72 No. 4. Danse caracteristique
Op. 72 No. 5. Meditation
Op. 72 No. 6. Mazurka pour danser
Op. 72 No. 7. Polacca de concert
Op. 72 No. 8. Dialogue
Op. 72 No. 9. Un poco di Schumann (Wayne32yrs)
Op. 72 No. 10. Scherzo-fantaisie
Op. 72 No. 11. Valse bluette
Op. 72 No. 12. L'espiegle
Op. 72 No. 13. Echo rustique
Op. 72 No. 14. Chant elegiaque
Op. 72 No. 15. Un poco di Chopin
Op. 72 No. 16. Valse a cinq temps
Op. 72 No. 17. Passe lointain
Op. 72 No. 18. Scene dansante: invitation au trepak



Edited by ajames (11/20/13 08:16 PM)
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#2185929 - 11/20/13 08:25 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 477
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
As there have been no objections in over 24hrs I suggest we go ahead and add names for second pieces where they're wanted.

I think Morodiene's idea of completing Op. 39 is a good one. I'd consider one of the (as yet) unclaimed ones myself (guess witch one) but I'd still rather see newcomers names on them first. The more experienced can hold off and con them at the eleventh hour.



Which witch? Oooh, I know. A clever piece!

There are still several gems unclaimed in Opus 39 that would be good for a beginner. The Doll's Funeral (Easy!) and The Organ Grinder's Song are delightful (late beginner/early intermediate?). And there are quite a few others that might suit somebody's fancy.

[Ah - I see aJames has selected The Doll's Funeral. Great! It would be a shame not to have that piece played after The New Doll and the Sick Doll.]





Edited by AZ_Astro (11/20/13 08:31 PM)
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#2186064 - 11/21/13 02:14 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1009
Loc: Italy
I'm almost to the recording stage with Italian Song but I don't think I can learn a second piece, since Joplin is giving me a hard time and there are many other things I want to learn during the winter months. So I won't claim any other op. 39 piece.
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#2186099 - 11/21/13 03:48 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: sinophilia]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Switzerland
Thanks to zrtf90 (Richard) and Morodiene for the tips on legato thirds! I am struggling with this right now in two another pieces. I especially have trouble getting 3-5 simultaneous, and your practice ideas help!
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European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

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#2186111 - 11/21/13 04:50 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
Ganddalf Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 688
Loc: Norway
I have just ordered a copy of the sheet music (Jurgenson edition) of Op.72. I'm going to play through some of the pieces before I select a second piece. I have been thinking about "Meditation" or "Valse a cinq temps".
Боюсь, что музыка слишком сложная.....

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#2186166 - 11/21/13 08:25 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: SwissMS]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
Thanks to zrtf90 (Richard) and Morodiene for the tips on legato thirds! I am struggling with this right now in two another pieces. I especially have trouble getting 3-5 simultaneous, and your practice ideas help!
Another thing you can do it play and hold both the notes with finger 3 & 5, then lift up finger 3 and press it down, lift and press, doing this slowly and repeat several times, all while keeping 5 down. Then you can do the same with finger 5 while holding down finger 3. Be careful that the "holding" finger isn't overly tense as you do this, and be sure the lifting finger relaxes after each time you press the key down before lifting again.

I suggest this because I'm guessing there is some tension that is preventing you.

Another thought that just came to me: is one of the pitches a black key and the other white? If so, the uneven nature of the notes can present some trouble. Even with two white keys it can be an issue, but let me explain. Imagine a horizontal line that goes across the keys. The ideal is that your fingers all touch the key at the same horizontal position, whether high up on the key o father down. This is why we curve our fingers when we play, because our fingers are uneven lengths and that can create an uneven sound when playing. So try and make sure that when you play these thirds that you get your fingers as close to an even horizontal plane as possible. It may not be 100% possible (especially if it's a black-white combination), so don't obsess about it, but even getting closer will help.

You can play and hold the third in question with fingers 3 & 5, then lift your hand up but maintain whatever position they were in at the end both both were fully pressed down. That may also help get the right position when you press the keys.
_________________________
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#2186168 - 11/21/13 08:29 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: ajames]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
OK, if no one objects, I'm going to claim all of Op. 2. Of course, anyone else who would like to play them is welcome to! smile


The Tchaikovsky Themed Recital is due to take place April 15.

To preserve existing selections, always QUOTE from the latest list then, in any order:

-- Delete the initial "[quote=<name> ]"
-- Delete the final "[/quote ]"
-- Add your name and the bold tags, "[b ]" and "[/b ]", around your chosen piece.

Then submit the new list.
A 30sec clip is available of each piece in the same order as below @ Deezer (If you sign up or in with FB, the whole pieces can be played for free)
Or here, if you're restricted from the above due to your location:
All Music
[/i]

Op. 1 No. 1. Scherzo a la russe
Op. 1 No. 2. Impromptu (patH)

Op. 2 No. 1. Ruines d'un chateau (Morodiene)
Op. 2 No. 2. Scherzo (Morodiene)
Op. 2 No. 3. Chant sans paroles (Morodiene)


Op. 4 Valse caprice in D major
Op. 5 Romance in F minor (Ganddalf)
Op. 7 Valse-scherzo No. 1 in A major
Op. 8 Capriccio in G flat major

Op. 9 No. 1. Reverie
Op. 9 No. 2. Polka de salon
Op. 9 No. 3. Mazurka de salon

Op. 10 No. 1. Nocturne in F major (Valencia)
Op. 10 No. 2. Humoresque in E minor

Op. 19 No. 1. Reverie du soir (Dipsy)
Op. 19 No. 2. Scherzo humoristique
Op. 19 No. 3. Album Leaf (zrtf90)
Op. 19 No. 4. Nocturne (Rupak Bhattacharya)
Op. 19 No. 5. Capriccioso
Op. 19 No. 6. Theme originale et variations

Op. 21 No. 1. Prelude in B major
Op. 21 No. 2. Fugue a 4 voix in G sharp minor
Op. 21 No. 3. Impromptu in C sharp minor
Op. 21 No. 4. Marche funebre in A flat minor
Op. 21 No. 5. Mazurque in A flat minor
Op. 21 No. 6. Scherzo in A flat major

Op. 37 No. 1 January: By the Fireside
Op. 37 No. 2 February: Carnival
Op. 37 No. 3 March: Song of the Lark (SwissMS)
Op. 37 No. 4 April: Snowdrop (Pavel.K)
Op. 37 No. 5 May: White Nights
Op. 37 No. 6 June: Barcarolle (Sam S)
Op. 37 No. 7 July: Song of the Reaper
Op. 37 No. 8 August: The Harvest (dire tonic)
Op. 37 No. 9 September: The Hunt
Op. 37 No. 10 October: Autumn Song (Andy Platt)
Op. 37 No. 11 November: Troika
Op. 37 No. 12 December: Christmas (carlos88)

Op. 39 No. 1. Morning Prayer (casinitaly)
Op. 39 No. 2. Winter Morning
Op. 39 No. 3. Mamma
Op. 39 No. 4. Hobbyhorse
Op. 39 No. 5. The Toy Soldiers' March
Op. 39 No. 6. The New Doll (ClsscLib)
Op. 39 No. 7. The Sick Doll (earlofmar)
Op. 39 No. 8. The Doll's Funeral (ajames)
Op. 39 No. 9. Waltz
Op. 39 No. 10. Polka
Op. 39 No. 11. Mazurka (MrPozor)
Op. 39 No. 12. Russian Song (Johnny D)
Op. 39 No. 13. Peasant Prelude
Op. 39 No. 14. Popular Song
Op. 39 No. 15. Italian Song (sinophilia)
Op. 39 No. 16. Old French Song (Recaredo)
Op. 39 No. 17. German Song (sydnal)
Op. 39 No. 18. Neapolitan Song (IreneAdler)
Op. 39 No. 19. A Nursery Tale
Op. 39 No. 20. The Witch Baba Yaga
Op. 39 No. 21. Sweet Dreams (AimeeO)
Op. 39 No. 22. The Lark (tangleweeds)
Op. 39 No. 23. At Church (AZ_Astro)
Op. 39 No. 24. The Organ-Grinder's Song

Op. 40 No. 1. Etude
Op. 40 No. 2. Chanson triste (Greener)
Op. 40 No. 3. Marche funebre
Op. 40 No. 4. Mazurka in C major
Op. 40 No. 5. Mazurka in D major
Op. 40 No. 6. Chant sans paroles
Op. 40 No. 7. Au village
Op. 40 No. 8. Valse in A flat major (timmyab)
Op. 40 No. 9. Valse in F sharp minor (PikaPianist)
Op. 40 No. 10. Danse russe
Op. 40 No. 11. Scherzo
Op. 40 No. 12. Reverie interrompue

Op. 51 No. 1. Valse de salon
Op. 51 No. 2. Polka peu dansante
Op. 51 No. 3. Menuetto scherzoso
Op. 51 No. 4. Natha-valse
Op. 51 No. 5. Romance
Op. 51 No. 6. Valse sentimentale (lyricmudra)

Op. 72 No. 1. Impromptu (Peterws)
Op. 72 No. 2. Berceuse (MaryBee)
Op. 72 No. 3. Tendres reproches
Op. 72 No. 4. Danse caracteristique
Op. 72 No. 5. Meditation
Op. 72 No. 6. Mazurka pour danser
Op. 72 No. 7. Polacca de concert
Op. 72 No. 8. Dialogue
Op. 72 No. 9. Un poco di Schumann (Wayne32yrs)
Op. 72 No. 10. Scherzo-fantaisie
Op. 72 No. 11. Valse bluette
Op. 72 No. 12. L'espiegle
Op. 72 No. 13. Echo rustique
Op. 72 No. 14. Chant elegiaque
Op. 72 No. 15. Un poco di Chopin
Op. 72 No. 16. Valse a cinq temps
Op. 72 No. 17. Passe lointain
Op. 72 No. 18. Scene dansante: invitation au trepak
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#2186177 - 11/21/13 08:45 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1549
Loc: The Netherlands
What is the very easiest Tchaikovsky piece? I might want to try to record it for this recital... (Enough time to practice)
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#2186321 - 11/21/13 12:57 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: wimpiano]
ajames Offline

Gold Supporter until July 24 2015


Registered: 08/25/13
Posts: 107
Loc: Texas
Well I looked back through this thread and I saw where MrPozor had signed up for the Doll's Funeral. I didn't mean to step on anybody's toes and if you want it, MrPozor, just say the word.

Although I guess it has been decided that multiple versions are ok so hop on.

Originally Posted By: wimpiano
What is the very easiest Tchaikovsky piece? I might want to try to record it for this recital... (Enough time to practice)


The opus 39 pieces are considered to be the easiest.
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#2186384 - 11/21/13 02:32 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: MrPozor]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: MrPozor
Sorry, I did not know that second choices should be avoided for the moment. I think it makes sense as the priority should be to have a maximum of people joining the recital. I have removed my option from "The Doll's Funeral".
I hope the Mazurka is not too difficult for me (1 year of piano experience). I'll run it past my teacher. Would the Waltz of the same opus be easier?

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#2186697 - 11/22/13 03:18 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
wimpiano Offline
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Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1549
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks! I see. I'll just do one of the easier parts (perhaps Doll is ill) and post it in the Ecco Fatto Café instead of in the recital thread.

My experience is very limited: I started playing again in October after quitting at age 10, 21 years ago and I've never recorded anything so this might be the better road.
The easier pieces look doable. (I've done some of the easier pieces in the A.M. Bach Notebook).


Edited by wimpiano (11/22/13 03:31 AM)
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#2186852 - 11/22/13 11:52 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: Morodiene]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
Thanks to zrtf90 (Richard) and Morodiene for the tips on legato thirds! I am struggling with this right now in two another pieces. I especially have trouble getting 3-5 simultaneous, and your practice ideas help!
Another thing you can do it play and hold both the notes with finger 3 & 5, then lift up finger 3 and press it down, lift and press, doing this slowly and repeat several times, all while keeping 5 down. Then you can do the same with finger 5 while holding down finger 3. Be careful that the "holding" finger isn't overly tense as you do this, and be sure the lifting finger relaxes after each time you press the key down before lifting again.

I suggest this because I'm guessing there is some tension that is preventing you.

Another thought that just came to me: is one of the pitches a black key and the other white? If so, the uneven nature of the notes can present some trouble. Even with two white keys it can be an issue, but let me explain. Imagine a horizontal line that goes across the keys. The ideal is that your fingers all touch the key at the same horizontal position, whether high up on the key o father down. This is why we curve our fingers when we play, because our fingers are uneven lengths and that can create an uneven sound when playing. So try and make sure that when you play these thirds that you get your fingers as close to an even horizontal plane as possible. It may not be 100% possible (especially if it's a black-white combination), so don't obsess about it, but even getting closer will help.

You can play and hold the third in question with fingers 3 & 5, then lift your hand up but maintain whatever position they were in at the end both both were fully pressed down. That may also help get the right position when you press the keys.


Thanks Morodiene! I will try your suggestions. One of my problems is I have a particularly short 5th finger, and have played it flat for years. My teacher has been working on teaching me to play it more round, and to rebalance my hand towards the thumb, since I tend to to lean the hand to the outside. It is actually worse when I play two white keys. The change in balance of black/white, or white/black is actually easier. I am slowly getter there though.
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#2186868 - 11/22/13 01:07 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: wimpiano]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5640
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: wimpiano
Thanks! ... post it in the Ecco Fatto Café instead of in the recital thread.


Great idea - Ecco Fatto Cafe rules.

Cathy
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#2186873 - 11/22/13 01:13 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: SwissMS]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5640
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
Thanks Morodiene! I will try your suggestions. One of my problems is I have a particularly short 5th finger, and have played it flat for years. I am slowly getter there though.


And thanks from me, too. I'm SwissMS's twin when it comes to short 5th fingers - it's part of the reason I do white key octaves off the edge of the keyboard - I think it shortens my span a quarter of inch laugh . All of these tips help as I learn new things.

Cathy
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#2187218 - 11/23/13 08:43 AM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: jotur]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1009
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: jotur
[quote=SwissMS]And thanks from me, too. I'm SwissMS's twin when it comes to short 5th fingers - it's part of the reason I do white key octaves off the edge of the keyboard - I think it shortens my span a quarter of inch laugh


...is there any other way to play them? grin
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#2187327 - 11/23/13 12:48 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: sinophilia]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5640
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: jotur
[quote=SwissMS]And thanks from me, too. I'm SwissMS's twin when it comes to short 5th fingers - it's part of the reason I do white key octaves off the edge of the keyboard - I think it shortens my span a quarter of inch laugh


...is there any other way to play them? grin


Maybe we should have a piano party for the "short-5th finger" crowd laugh

Cathy
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#2187333 - 11/23/13 01:05 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: jotur]
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
Originally Posted By: jotur
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: jotur
[quote=SwissMS]I do white key octaves off the edge of the keyboard - I think it shortens my span a quarter of inch laugh


...is there any other way to play them? grin


Maybe we should have a piano party for the "short-5th finger" crowd laugh


I'll come. I'll be able to display my qualifications at the door. wink
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#2187335 - 11/23/13 01:07 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: tangleweeds]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12150
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: tangleweeds
Originally Posted By: jotur
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: jotur
[quote=SwissMS]I do white key octaves off the edge of the keyboard - I think it shortens my span a quarter of inch laugh


...is there any other way to play them? grin


Maybe we should have a piano party for the "short-5th finger" crowd laugh


I'll come. I'll be able to display my qualifications at the door. wink
Ya, my husband calls them my macaroni fingers. They're about an inch and a half shorter than my middle finger smile
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#2187368 - 11/23/13 02:21 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Evening all, hope everyone's well smile After a couple of weeks on page 1 of my piece, it's dawned on me that I may have made a huge mistake. I've been playing the notes (circled in red below) seperatly, and thinking that it would all come together properly when up to speed. .........but on listening to the piece (slowed down in media player) I think that maybe I should be playing them all together. If this is the case, I'm gonna have to start all over again, as it would affect the fingering etc. Can anyone shed any light on this for me, it would be much appreciated wink


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#2187377 - 11/23/13 02:34 PM Re: Tchaikovsky Themed Recital: April 2014 [Re: wayne33yrs]
Pavel.K Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 86
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
Evening all, hope everyone's well smile After a couple of weeks on page 1 of my piece, it's dawned on me that I may have made a huge mistake. I've been playing the notes (circled in red below) seperatly, and thinking that it would all come together properly when up to speed. .........but on listening to the piece (slowed down in media player) I think that maybe I should be playing them all together. If this is the case, I'm gonna have to start all over again, as it would affect the fingering etc. Can anyone shed any light on this for me, it would be much appreciated wink


Hi Wayne, I am sorry.
I am afraid they should be played together and not separately (in time).
They are drawn a little aside to distinguish different voices. It seems to me there are four voices, all in 2/4 meter.
But wait for answer from someone with more experience to be sure about it.
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