Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2178870 - 11/08/13 05:29 AM Counting problem
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi,

I'm having some trouble counting and keeping rythm at the same time.

To improve the rythm my piano teacher recommended me to learn some rythm exercises out of the book:

Guida Teorico Pratica Vol 1/2 by Pozzoli

Just started with it this week. The problem I have though is that if I don't count, the rythm is good. If I count, my hands do different things then I intend to:

Rests don't work (I just tap m as any other note). If I tap Eigtht notes, it is almost impossible for me to swicht back to quarter notes and so forth.

I don't experience these problems if I don't count.

What can I do about it?


Edited by wimpiano (11/08/13 05:30 AM)
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2178874 - 11/08/13 05:43 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
Counting fouls me up too. I say be glad you have some ears that are telling you they can deal with rhythm without counting.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#2178883 - 11/08/13 06:24 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
True, however theoretically it should improve rythm (you can measure the rythm with the counting), so just wondering whether it is not a bad (or even very bad) thing that I can't count and play well together..
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2178889 - 11/08/13 07:08 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
I would say there is plenty enough to deal with while one is playing, whether performing or not ... but if having that counting capability for sight readers is a must, you'll overcome the ears butting in eventually.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#2178929 - 11/08/13 08:54 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
There is indeed plenty to deal with while one is playing.
However also on PW a lot of people say counting is important since:

  • Counting helps to even out tempo irregularities, such as going fast, then slow (which I do, that's why my piano teacher pays attention to it).
  • It helps co√∂rdinating your hands by combinating voice and hands
  • ...


Basic rythm is ok for me however when it get's more difficult I tend to slow down, and when it's more easy I tend to speed up. I know it while I do it however I can't get it right without help.

According to almost everybody the best way is counting.

Hence, I just want to know HOW I can go past this wall, and be able to count and tap and eventually count and play.
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2178931 - 11/08/13 09:04 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Virginia, USA
We all go through that. Be persistent, it will come.

Remember how impossible it was to play both hands at the same time?
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2178937 - 11/08/13 09:13 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
@TimR Thanks! Encouraging.

Playing with both hands at the same time was not a problem at all for me somehow. I rushed through the first 2 books without a problem in merely a couple of weeks. This is my first "wall".

My wife who previously played the guitar is struggling quite a lot to play with both hands though so I see what you mean.
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2178950 - 11/08/13 09:31 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Virginia, USA
I also teach handbells.

My ringers frequently write the counting on the music. 1, 2-and 3, 4, etc.

That may help at first.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2178970 - 11/08/13 10:03 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
I'll give it a try smile
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2180754 - 11/11/13 08:17 PM Re: Counting problem [Re: Rerun]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Rerun
I would say there is plenty enough to deal with while one is playing, whether performing or not ... but if having that counting capability for sight readers is a must, you'll overcome the ears butting in eventually.


I was doing some sloooow work on some of the syncopation in Jelly Roll's "New Orleans Blues" earlier and found counting paid off a bit getting that Rh to understand what the LH was needing with that habanera beat ... tricky stuff I might add, at least for me.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#2180792 - 11/11/13 10:06 PM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
ajames Online   content

Gold Supporter until July 24 2015


Registered: 08/25/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
I found it unnatural at first but it comes eventually. Go as slow as you need to until you can do it. When you say "tapping" you mean tapping out the rhythm while counting out loud? Maybe a step along the way is to try tapping the rhythm to a metronome. Slow tempo.
_________________________
Kawai 350
Alfred's Adult All-in-one Level 2
XXXV-3-XXXIII

Top
#2180800 - 11/11/13 10:29 PM Re: Counting problem [Re: ajames]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
Yep, on the silent 2nd beat between the boom and the 1st chuck in the LH, I was just playing a tone in the chord with my LH as kind of a metronome to tap the silent beat until my hands got in to that habanera dance.

This digital has a metronome but never have used it. I was counting 1234 to start with then let the 2nd tone/beat keep me on track. Probably will take a little while before the hands are in the habit of that bass line.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#2181269 - 11/12/13 08:34 PM Re: Counting problem [Re: Rerun]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1258
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . . This digital has a metronome but never have used it. . . .


Why not?

If it's like most DP's, it has a "ding tick tick tick" option.

The problem with counting _yourself_ (rather than using a metronome) is that you can easily fall into uneven counting within a bar, and _really_ easily fall into changing tempo across a bar line. [I speak from experience!]

Playing against a metronome is a _learned skill_ -- it doesn't come naturally. But (IMHO) it's worth doing.

And playing against a rhythm track (if your DP has them) can be downright fun.

. Charles

Top
#2181393 - 11/13/13 04:14 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: Charles Cohen]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1208
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: ajames
When you say "tapping" you mean tapping out the rhythm while counting out loud?


Yes indeed.

Originally Posted By: ajames
Maybe a step along the way is to try tapping the rhythm to a metronome. Slow tempo.


Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen

If it's like most DP's, it has a "ding tick tick tick" option.

The problem with counting _yourself_ (rather than using a metronome) is that you can easily fall into uneven counting within a bar, and _really_ easily fall into changing tempo across a bar line. [I speak from experience!]

Playing against a metronome is a _learned skill_ -- it doesn't come naturally. But (IMHO) it's worth doing.


When I was a kid my teacher made me play along a metronome as well, I stopped playing though. I will try a metronome app with the "ding tick tick tick" option. I'm playing (and tapping wink ) an acoustic piano.

BTW. The counting/tapping did improve a lot over the last week however I sometimes have to gasp for breath since if I breath in between I get out of rythm..

(I also have asthma so I might have to gasp for breath sooner then the some other people).


Edited by wimpiano (11/13/13 04:14 AM)
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2181396 - 11/13/13 04:44 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: Charles Cohen]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Quote:
. . . This digital has a metronome but never have used it. . . .


Why not?

If it's like most DP's, it has a "ding tick tick tick" option.

The problem with counting _yourself_ (rather than using a metronome) is that you can easily fall into uneven counting within a bar, and _really_ easily fall into changing tempo across a bar line. [I speak from experience!]

Playing against a metronome is a _learned skill_ -- it doesn't come naturally. But (IMHO) it's worth doing.

And playing against a rhythm track (if your DP has them) can be downright fun.

. Charles



Thanks Charles ... I'll give it a try on fine tuning that syncopation in this tune.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#2181554 - 11/13/13 11:26 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: wimpiano]
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
Don't you use a metronome.
_________________________
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

Top
#2181560 - 11/13/13 11:34 AM Re: Counting problem [Re: Stevester]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Stevester
Don't you use a metronome.


Nope, never have but I haven't been playing all that long. If it will help timing that RH plunking on this tune, it will be worth it. I'm not sure the one on this digital works.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
123 registered (aesop, accordeur, A Guy, AEMontoya, 40 invisible), 1151 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75984 Members
42 Forums
157152 Topics
2308032 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
No one home?
by ScottM
08/29/14 08:05 PM
Prokofiev's 5 piano concertos, live: Marinskij/Gergiev etc
by fnork
08/29/14 07:36 PM
Has anyone here studied with S. Babayan
by Serge Marinkovic
08/29/14 07:05 PM
Roland RD 800 Dust Cover
by BarryDMD
08/29/14 06:14 PM
OT - Technical help for recording Silent feature to laptop
by casinitaly
08/29/14 05:13 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission