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#2183126 - 11/15/13 11:16 PM Pianist faces prison for playing her piano.
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
Spanish pianist faces prison sentence.

A good reason to get a Digital Piano.

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#2183160 - 11/16/13 12:54 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
bluebilly, I have read your post, here:

Subject: Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano.

Spanish pianist faces prison sentence.

A good reason to get a Digital Piano.

_____

The situation of playing an acoustic piano is difficult.

If you think of the cost of an acoustic piano, the cost of lessons and the cost of a place to play the acoustic piano - here in Canada or in most of Canada condos cost a half a million and small shacks on a tiny lot cost about a million in the good side of town (the west side - if you will) - parts of big Canadian cities. So what does that mean for any piano player who wants to study classical music? Not good.

3N15NG


Edited by Michael_99 (11/16/13 12:55 AM)

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#2183163 - 11/16/13 12:57 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1535
Loc: Australia
oh dear how awful the neighbor case seems rather flimsy if she could not have the matter solved during the years of practice.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2183213 - 11/16/13 04:41 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
District attorney has asked for 20 months of prision finally (so she won't go to jail, less than two years means no jail here, when there's no precedents), plus a 22000€ fine. Besides, attorneys' proposal includes a ban of six months on piano playing.
Accusation still begs for five years in the fridge. There's no sentence, yet.
Welcome to Spain.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2183224 - 11/16/13 06:04 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Eddyaknow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 52
man those poor neighbors...

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#2183251 - 11/16/13 07:35 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Jayden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/13
Posts: 101
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
That's just sad.

The neighbors should have made complaints to the relevant people way sooner. Regardless, seems completely over the top to me. Since when can you receive jail time simply because of sound pollution.

The problem should have been handled a long time ago. Should never have come to this. There's fault on both ends.
_________________________
XXXV
XXXIII

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#2183252 - 11/16/13 07:41 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: Eddyaknow]
adultpianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 540
I live in an apartment. I have a digital piano. I usually do not use headphones because the sound sounds tinny through headphones.. I have someone living underneath me who has on occasions complained about noise. He said I can play up to a certain time in the evening and that is 10pm and no more which is reasonable. Sometimes if he is out or away I will play later. I do not play 8 hours a day and am not a professional pianist. Professional pianists hit the keys with such force for some pieces which require very heavy forte. I would never dream of playing such pieces in an apartment. I had a letter from the person who I lease my apartment from saying he had complained about my piano playing. When I challenged him about it, he denied it and said he was only complaining about the lack of insulation between the floor NOT my playing. I have used headphones but he said it vibrates through the floor and he said its when i push the pedal, but I dont play with the pedal at home as most of my pieces do not require pedalling.

What he did say was that since I do not have anyone living above me I have no idea what it sounds like for someone below. He said if he moves again, he will get a top floor place

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#2183256 - 11/16/13 07:50 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Jayden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/13
Posts: 101
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Maybe the landlord is the problem. Should of been up to them to solve the problem.

Either tell them to properly sound proof the room, stop playing or kick them out. Should of been solved well before 4 years had past.

Also, why is the neighbor only just pressing charges after 6 years. (says it was from 2003-2007). No doubt she's broke and desperate.
_________________________
XXXV
XXXIII

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#2183262 - 11/16/13 08:25 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: Jayden]
adultpianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 540
There are plenty of places to practice. You can find a church or a friend with a house. If you are a professional pianist you will know plenty of people in the business who will let you use their instrument in a more suitable environment.

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#2183276 - 11/16/13 09:08 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
angelsong Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 81
Loc: NW England
I think the neighbours have been very patient putting up with it for so long! However, had they addressed the problem sooner, some compromise may have been found.

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#2183295 - 11/16/13 10:23 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 603
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Spanish pianist faces prison sentence.

A good reason to get a Digital Piano.



Here in the US, if you like your piano, you get to keep your piano.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#2183301 - 11/16/13 10:49 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: Rerun]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3573
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: Rerun


Here in the US, if you like your piano, you get to keep your piano.


Unless some nameless, faceless, mindless, but nevertheless arrogantly authoritarian, bureaucrat determines that it's a "sub-standard" piano, and then you must play the piano that he specifies - even if it's ugly and harder to play and sounds really terrible...and, oh yes, your neighbors who hate your lousy playing still have to pay for it...
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#2183305 - 11/16/13 10:59 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: TrapperJohn]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 603
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: TrapperJohn
Originally Posted By: Rerun


Here in the US, if you like your piano, you get to keep your piano.


Unless some nameless, faceless, mindless, but nevertheless arrogantly authoritarian, bureaucrat determines that it's a "sub-standard" piano, and then you must play the piano that he specifies - even if it's ugly and harder to play and sounds really terrible...and, oh yes, your neighbors who hate your lousy playing still have to pay for it...



Heh, heh, heh ... thanks for sharing my thoughts better than I ever could.
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#2183306 - 11/16/13 11:03 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
BB Player Online   content


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2593
Loc: Not in Texas
It's a pity the neighbors couldn't work out a mutually agreeable compromise. I'm sympathetic with the downstairs neighbor though. Years ago I had a downstairs apartment and despite the fact the upstairs tenants were pretty quiet I heard every record played, every dropped fork, etc. A pianist practicing the same few bars over and over would have driven me mad.
_________________________
Greg

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#2183317 - 11/16/13 11:29 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: BB Player]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 603
Loc: Louisiana
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#2183378 - 11/16/13 01:10 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
carlos88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 91
Loc: Colorado
Happens in the US too - though without the prison aspect. I wondered what happened with this lawsuit in New York this summer.


http://nypost.com/2013/07/11/the-worst-kind-of-piano-man/
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

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#2183385 - 11/16/13 01:19 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
joyoussong Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 735
Loc: Canada
Someone here was just ordered by a court to sell her condo & move - this after numerous notices & fines (unpaid) from her strata corporation. Wasn't a piano though - I think it was behaviour by the owner & her son that was a lot more disruptive than playing music. Re: the case in Spain - I just hope an opera singer takes over her apartment (giggle).
_________________________
Carol
(Started playing July 2008)



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#2183398 - 11/16/13 01:50 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Johnny D Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 189
Loc: Brazil
What a pain to live in an apartment - for both the piano player and the neighbors.

Perhaps some set hours would be acceptable for all parties involved - like a fixed 2 hour window when the player could play as desired. Outside of that window and the player would have to use a digital on low or with headphones or not play at all. Exceptions could be given now and then for special circumstances such as when entertaining guests.
_________________________
Dittrich Piano ~ 1978
Graduate - Alfred's Book 1
Suzuki Volume 1
Masterwork Classics 3
Alfred's Level 2

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#2183418 - 11/16/13 02:30 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: adultpianist]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: adultpianist
I live in an apartment. I have a digital piano. I usually do not use headphones because the sound sounds tinny through headphones..
OT most DP's sound better through headphones. I don't know what DP you have but usually the headphones are the weak point. You don't want popular headphones used for listening to music.

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#2183420 - 11/16/13 02:34 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
joyoussong Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 735
Loc: Canada
I live in an apartment, & have both digital & acoustic. For the first almost-4 years I just had the accoustic; I got the digital so I can play early in the morning, although on weekdays anything after about 8 am is OK to play the accoustic. My downstairs neighbour plays too, has been there for years, & as far as I know, the guy below her has no complaints. The people next door to me say they rarely ever notice me playing (& I do play every day.)
_________________________
Carol
(Started playing July 2008)



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#2183444 - 11/16/13 03:37 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5509
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I am fortunate in my neighbors. A couple of years ago we were talking about whether my music disturbed one of them, and he assured my that his TV or other white noise mostly masked it, but he had noticed significant improvement in the rag set laugh

I now use my digital all the time, and I think he can't hear it as often.

Cathy
_________________________

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#2183481 - 11/16/13 05:13 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: jotur]
Newman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 700
Loc: Australia
Noise pollution is a real problem. I've experienced it. It does affect your health.

We should all be considerate of others.
_________________________
Guitar since 1966. Piano (Kawai DP80) since 2011.

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#2183691 - 11/16/13 11:41 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
EmilyTaylor Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/16/13
Posts: 3
Loc: AZ
Something like this would be more of a civil lawsuit so i doubt prison, it's also just another one of those crazy cases people who are desperate for attention do that the media also loves to do so they can just bend the facts to make something out of nothing.

Lesson to be learned here, It's never a good idea to take news media outlets seriously or ever watch them in the first place, and secondly don't live in a third world country, that never goes over good.
_________________________
Furries :3

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#2183726 - 11/17/13 01:45 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: EmilyTaylor]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1535
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: EmilyTaylor
Something like this would be more of a civil lawsuit so i doubt prison, it's also just another one of those crazy cases people who are desperate for attention do that the media also loves to do so they can just bend the facts to make something out of nothing.

Lesson to be learned here, It's never a good idea to take news media outlets seriously or ever watch them in the first place, and secondly don't live in a third world country, that never goes over good.


Agree with everything except the last part. I don't think Spain would be considered a third world country.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2183767 - 11/17/13 05:29 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3573
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Remember: Your Rights end where mine begin - a civilized rule that teenage boys with their blasting car speakers and old, be-wiskered hippee bikers with their purposely ineffective mufflers totally disregard...
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#2183818 - 11/17/13 09:20 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
If local press is not inventing lies, then I wouldn´t be surprised to find her sentenced guilty. I would more question if she should face prison then, or if it wouldn´t be better for her to become forced to attend a psychotherapist, then.

You have to know that Spain is a very beautiful country, but also that it is in severe crisis because of a widespread unethical behaviour everywhere in the society. From the politician to the pianist to the bus driver to the neighbor, shallow friendliness to the public and a concealed deep egoism here unfortunately rules daily life.
I am very sad to have come over years to the following conclusion about the country I am living in: this country is not in crisis because of being a putative victim of a global market, but because it´s society internally is not united but split into too many entities gaining personal advantage only.

The Spanish government once placed commercials to attract more international tourists to visit Spain, using the slogan: "Spain is different!".
- Yes, it is.

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#2183928 - 11/17/13 01:44 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: Rerun]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Rerun

It's amazing the kind of property you can buy in the USA for that kind of money, here in the UK you would get little more than Tent for those prices.

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#2183937 - 11/17/13 01:57 PM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: Marco M]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Marco M
If local press is not inventing lies, then I wouldn´t be surprised to find her sentenced guilty. I would more question if she should face prison then, or if it wouldn´t be better for her to become forced to attend a psychotherapist, then.

You have to know that Spain is a very beautiful country, but also that it is in severe crisis because of a widespread unethical behaviour everywhere in the society. From the politician to the pianist to the bus driver to the neighbor, shallow friendliness to the public and a concealed deep egoism here unfortunately rules daily life.
I am very sad to have come over years to the following conclusion about the country I am living in: this country is not in crisis because of being a putative victim of a global market, but because it´s society internally is not united but split into too many entities gaining personal advantage only.

The Spanish government once placed commercials to attract more international tourists to visit Spain, using the slogan: "Spain is different!".
- Yes, it is.

My Son lived in Spain for ten years and he said that people were always wary of being subjected to a Denuncia , I believe this could be an archaic legal procedure left over from the times of General Franco.

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#2184331 - 11/18/13 05:54 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 541
Loc: Spanish living in UK
[/quote]My Son lived in Spain for ten years and he said that people were always wary of being subjected to a Denuncia , I believe this could be an archaic legal procedure left over from the times of General Franco. [/quote]

This comment is simply ridiculous, you must just have remembered about the existence of Franco and think that anything comes from that period and the "secret police". It's just as ridiculous as saying that all white people in the USA are racist or that one can never trust a German. History is not to be forgotten, but not always explains what really happens now.

We are talking simply about lack of manners, and this is unfortunately too extended in Spain. Keep in mind that people there normally live in tall buildings of flats. Houses are mostly in small villages or as second homes in "urbanizaciones de chalets". Add to that the poor quality of construction standards, so not only you have air noise contamination but also structural (vibrations, for instance).

Spanish people tend to be noisy, both with their voices and with their actions. I'm Spanish myself, I know what I'm talking about. If you have the bad luck of having a noisy neighbour you were stuck in heck. So I do welcome that RECENTLY there is far more awareness of the injustice many people are suffering. You can put a Denuncia for anything that is not right, just as in all other countries people can report people who go against the law. That is not obsolete, it's just a way of legally getting things right and I'm sure it's something that also exists in your own country.

As I said in another post about this same topic -sorry for the repetition but I read that thread before this one- I'm completely with the "crazy neighbour". If you live in a flat (and in Spain it is very rare that people live in houses) and are a professional player/teacher or a player who intends to spend hours and hours playing every day, SPEND A FORTUNE SOUNDPROOFING THE PIANO ROOM, MOVE TO A HOUSE OR GET A DIGITAL PIANO!!! (In person and if affected I would be not only shouting this but possibly also slapping the culprit's face with every word... if I had suffered all those years I'm sure I could claim mental issues).

There is this mentality that "En mi casa hago lo que me da la gana" (= In my own house I do whatever I wish), which would be quite acceptable IF we were talking about a house, but 99% of the time it is a FLAT, not a house.

Bad mannered people also said: "la gallina de arriba caga a la de abajo" (= The hen on top shits on the hen below). I guess for many people being a shitting hen is more important than having good manners. And I bet this family is like that.

There are no many practising places in Spain. We don't usually have churches with piano/organs... but if you have the money to pursue a musical career with a good piano, tuning expenses and music lessons then you simply have to have the money to soundproof your place. OR go for a digital piano!

My uncle and auntie both are musicians, pianists, were professors at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Madrid, and guess what... they spent LOTS of money making sure that their piano room in their flat was absolutely sound-proofed.

Making noise can be very pleasant to the one who makes it, but an absolute torture to the ones who have to listen without wanting to. Intrusive music that is not wanted is also noise for those who suffer it.

As per the poster saying that Spain is a 3rd world country... in manners I would agree... but as per the rest, travel a bit and you'll find that your own country is certainly not the best. Have you ever been to Europe, or Spain recently? Plain ignorance if you speak of what you don't know like that.



Edited by evamar (11/18/13 05:58 AM)
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2184420 - 11/18/13 09:59 AM Re: Pianist faces prison for playing her piano. [Re: bluebilly]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Amen, Eva.

My hometown is one of the most noisy among spanish. In fact, noise is our main concern if we attend at the number of complaints made by cityzens. Traffic, airplanes, midnight trucks picking up rubbish, neighbours tv's and bar terraces (since we can no longer smoke inside places, each bar has its own/not always legal/noisy as heck terrace, right in the street). Mix this much up with narrow streets, wich multiply the echo,and so-so windows and you got it. Very stressing, at least to me.
So, I understand that this pianist has to be blamed. I do practice right above my neighbours' children room and, despite I use a DP, the first thing I did was asking at what time they went to bed, and if I disturbed them...No complains, so far.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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