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#2183872 - 11/17/13 11:37 AM Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions
Rough Diamond Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 3
Loc: North Yorks England
Just had this for a few days now and I thought I would share my thoughts.Yamaha describe this as the best stage piano they have ever made.I have not played all their pianos but I am familiar with their professional range CP1. CP5,etc, and I think they might be right.
These are all great pianos but where the CP4 might score more highly is in it's ease of use.
My main keyboard for the last few years has been a Roland 700sx
another great keyboard. To get the best out of this however one has to go into the editing side of things and adjust the sound to achieve a desired result. This is not so with the Yamaha CP4.
There are 45 acoustic piano sounds sampled from three pianos, more than enough for me. The eq,5 sliders, works really well at adjusting these to suit the room,stage, set up and amplification you are using.One touch of a button gives you compression to bring you higher in the mix when its your turn to solo.There are the usual effects and two tone wheels,one of which can change the speed of the rotary effect on the organs for example.
There are many more features which I will not go into now but the main thing is all adjustments are very easy to do on the fly without going into the programmes and having to edit.
This makes the CP4 a performance piano, and it is true, possibly the best one Yamaha have made so far in this respect.
The action and the sound are exceptional in my view, my only
criticism might be that the plastic case is a bit light in construction, but I realise they have kept the weight down so you can't have your cake and eat it. (An English expression used in these parts).
( I did like the construction of the CP50 but Yamaha have moved away from this more towards their early CLP design)
A good flight case will be on order before I take this on the road for sure.
So far I am very pleased with this piano and it gets its first airing next Tuesday so I'll know how it performs on stage,looking forward to this, I'm sure its going to come up to its promise from my experience so far.
This is my first post here so I hope it might be useful and look forward to what others think about this particular piano.

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#2183874 - 11/17/13 11:47 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
SIG77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 30
Loc: California, US
Thank you for the sharing. What does it mean by "45 acoustic piano sounds sampled from three pianos"? They are supposed to sample every keys from the 3 pianos and make one sample. By 45 samples it means on the average 15 samples were taken from each of the 3 pianos. Does that mean they sample it in 15 different conditions per piano? (such as lid open, half open, closed, etc)
_________________________
Bosendorfer 185CS, Roland FP-7F, Yamaha PSR530

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#2183878 - 11/17/13 11:51 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
45 preset piano patches you can call up. 15 based on the CFIIIs samples, 15 based on the S6 samples, 15 based on the CFX samples.

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#2183883 - 11/17/13 12:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Rough Diamond Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 3
Loc: North Yorks England
Thanks another scott you put it much better than I did.

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#2183897 - 11/17/13 12:19 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
SIG77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 30
Loc: California, US
Are closed and open lid sounds combined into one sample and triggered by different key velocity? Or actually two different samples, one closed, the other open lid?

Also, how do they vary one sample to create 15 variations / patches? by effect processors mainly?
_________________________
Bosendorfer 185CS, Roland FP-7F, Yamaha PSR530

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#2183906 - 11/17/13 12:34 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Rough Diamond Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 3
Loc: North Yorks England
I have not got into it that far yet but I'm sure there may be others on the forum that may know much more about this than I do. I play the piano and just respond to what I get back, I don't find the need to know how it all works, but I respect anyone else who might have an interest in this side of things. Thats not to say that I am not interested in the technology, I am but I just don't have enough space in my head to learn all the stuff I want to and therefore I have to keep it in its place so to speak.

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#2183916 - 11/17/13 01:00 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: SIG77]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: SIG77
Are closed and open lid sounds combined into one sample and triggered by different key velocity? Or actually two different samples, one closed, the other open lid?

Also, how do they vary one sample to create 15 variations / patches? by effect processors mainly?


I've had some time to play the CP4 and I'm up in the air as to get a CP5 at a Kraft Music's closeout price or deal with some of the short comings of the CP4. There are no closed or open lid piano sounds as there is no insert effect for this. However, the indicated +/- AP sounds are probably what the CP5 let the user adjust in terms of hammer hardness. It seems that a lot of the SCM customizing features were omitted in the CP4 and thats a slight problem for me. I actually got used to and understood the UI of the CP5 and appreciated the direct accessibility of the hammer hardness, strike position, and even speed and depth of the auto pan effect for the Rhodes sounds. The CP4 does let you adjust strike position for the EP's and you have to go through one of the effect pages to have access to the amp simulator parameters including the speed and depth of the auto pan. However, the hammer hardness parameter for both the AP's and EP's is gone and that sucks because I liked using that parameter on the fly with the CP5 when I owned it 2 years ago.

I do like the heavier action of the CP4 and the lighter weight, but thats about it. I actually slightly prefer the ability to customize the parameters I previously mentioned on the CP5. I'm not sure what I really want to do. I can get a brand new CP5 for $1699, but have to deal with the lighter action and heavier weight (not too big of a deal because I would keep it in the studio most of the time) or go with the heavier action and lighter weight of the CP4.

Ultimately, it will come down to my preference, but are there any other suggestions from you guys?
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP4, Yamaha P-255B, Roland RD-64, Roland RD800

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#2183961 - 11/17/13 02:56 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: SIG77]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: SIG77
Are closed and open lid sounds combined into one sample and triggered by different key velocity?

You would want a closed lid sound at low velocity and an open lid sound when playing harder? I guess it could be an interesting effect, but not if your goal is realism. I've never seen a piano where the lid opens and closes as you play!

I doubt anyone ever samples a closed lid piano. I would think it would be simulated mostly with EQ. (I'm not actually sure why people would even find that sound particularly desirable.)

Originally Posted By: SIG77
Also, how do they vary one sample to create 15 variations / patches? by effect processors mainly?

There are effect versions (like honky tonk), mono versions, the + and - versions which I believe are pitch shifted (if you shift samples up or down, they take on a slightly different character), versions with different EQ, compression, possibly different velocity curves... there's are plenty of ways to get different piano sounds out of the same set of samples. It is very common for a DP to have only a single piano sample, but they almost all have a variety of presets derived from that sample.

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#2183967 - 11/17/13 03:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2475
Loc: UK
Thanks for the review.

There are lots more first impressions on the musicplayer forum good and bad. The (lack of) some effects for solo or studio piano get some stick. Also in the thread Yamaha have posted an explanation of the UI design which may help further.

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#2183984 - 11/17/13 03:31 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Let me preface this by saying that I think the CP4 is a good stage piano that will meet the needs of many players. What follows is based on my very brief experience with it and is colored by what I have owned before, and my personal needs. I posted some initial impressions on Keyboard Corner, and ruffled a few feathers by expressing reservations concerning the technical implementation of the piano sounds.

Being impetuous, but also needing funds for the CP4, I sold my Nord Piano in the (some might say foolish) belief that the CP's three-sensor wooden action coupled with the three grands and multiple EPs would make for a much more satisfying playing experience. When it arrived, I thought the action was indeed much better than the Nord's.

My overall impression of the sound was that it was quite nice - nothing special, and a little more synthetic than the Nord, but OK. However, on delving a bit further, I noticed that the sample stretching was quite obvious, with fast chromatic runs revealing it, most noticeably in the bottom octave; it sounds a bit like you are using the pitch bend wheel rather than playing individual notes a semitone apart. The Nord allows for the installation of XL samples which involve no stretching, and Kawai, Roland and Korg all utilize 88-note sample sets in most of their "pro" boards.

I also found that, compared to these other manufacturers' pianos, the dynamics were just a touch more limited. On the other hand, it was nice to have access to three distinctive AP sounds, of which I preferred the older CF sample. Attack samples were reasonably long, but the ultimate decay was static and not as realistic as in the Roland SN boards.

What surprised me was that there was no sympathetic resonance. Even the $999 Casio PX-5S has that - and in my opinion it's not a gimmick, but does actually contribute to the realism and sense of immersion. So, overall, I was not blown away by the acoustic piano implementation.

EPs were well done (modeled), and I particularly liked the '77 Wurlitzer - one of the best out there, IMO. Other sounds were good to mediocre - nothing really stood out from my brief whizz through them, apart from the acoustic bass, which is awesome!

Operationally, for basic functions it seemed very well laid out and easy to navigate. I didn't like the aesthetics, but that's a minor gripe. The plastic case has brought the weight down, but it's only around a pound lighter than the NP88, and the Nord has a solid metal case that stands up to road use well.

I decided after only a few hours to return it. I'll say again that this was a very personal decision, and others may, and will, have a very different take on the CP4. The action is among the best currently available, and that might have been enough. However, I just couldn't get over the fact that in 2013 with other manufacturers making some (albeit slow) strides toward greater AP authenticity, Yamaha still seems to be stuck in the '90s with their technical implementation. I have a P-105, and the $529 I spent on that was well worth it. I was content to accept stretching, the lack of sympathetic resonance, limited dynamics and a bit of static decay in a board at that price. I don't expect it in a $2k+ board that also feels somewhat cheaply constructed. Others are already using this board successfully in their bands, and see it as a significant step up from what they were using before. Having come from the Nord, I was just a tad disappointed.

YMMV!!!!!!!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2184015 - 11/17/13 04:08 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I posted some initial impressions on Keyboard Corner, and ruffled a few feathers by expressing reservations concerning the technical implementation of the piano sounds.

I didn't leave the boat, but I love it how when one points out to a "pro" that his/her latest emperor is running around rather scantily clad, they get mad at you like you had something to do with it. How dare you hurt their tender little tough-guy fee fees. Some fora seem to consist of 99% gloating over the latest shiny acquisition, where never is heard a discouraging word. I very much appreciate the folks here at PW who are keeping it real.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
However, I just couldn't get over the fact that in 2013 with other manufacturers making some (albeit slow) strides toward greater AP authenticity, Yamaha still seems to be stuck in the '90s with their technical implementation. I have a P-105, and the $529 I spent on that was well worth it. I was content to accept stretching, the lack of sympathetic resonance, limited dynamics and a bit of static decay in a board at that price. I don't expect it in a $2k+ board that also feels somewhat cheaply constructed.

The P105 is quite interesting. Yamaha's low end offerings are super stretched, with just enough otherwise inaudible sympathetic resonance to somewhat smear out the quivering of those quick bland loops, but at least you can pick 'em up cheap, and expectations are kind of low anyway. No excuses for their brand spankin' new stage piano (which should be a kitchen sink model with only the best of the best).
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2184042 - 11/17/13 04:53 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
I love it how when one points out to a "pro" that his/her latest emperor is running around rather scantily clad, they get mad at you like you had something to do with it. How dare you hurt their tender little tough-guy fee fees.

Unfortunately, I get the impression that, perhaps because of financial ties to certain manufacturers, the mods on the forum in question seem to discourage even mildly negative views about those manufacturers' products. The debacle over the leaked launch of the CP4 also elicited a reactionary standpoint. It's understandable, up to a point, but somewhat of a conflict of interests, IMO.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2184066 - 11/17/13 05:40 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Unfortunately, I get the impression that, perhaps because of financial ties to certain manufacturers, the mods on the forum in question seem to discourage even mildly negative views about those manufacturers' products. The debacle over the leaked launch of the CP4 also elicited a reactionary standpoint. It's understandable, up to a point, but somewhat of a conflict of interests, IMO.

It's sad that it's actually kind of unusual that we can let our hair down here at PW without being modded into oblivion.

The electronic music equipment industry is pretty small potatoes to be pushing people around - the pushees must be really low on the totem pole.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2184067 - 11/17/13 05:41 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Honestly, I didn't see any ruffled feathers over there. And the one moderator who participated seemed perfectly respectful of your take on it (though he did suggest that the choice of speakers could have been more of a variable than accounted for).

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#2184081 - 11/17/13 06:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Honestly, I didn't see any ruffled feathers over there.

Could you point me to the thread? I don't go there much so it's like searching for an ego needle in a veritable haystack of egos.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2184085 - 11/17/13 06:09 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Honestly, I didn't see any ruffled feathers over there. And the one moderator who participated seemed perfectly respectful of your take on it (though he did suggest that the choice of speakers could have been more of a variable than accounted for).


Being an oversensitive keyboard geek who spends too much time in his own company, Scott, you may be right, and I may be misreading things. However, I'm not the only one who has come to that conclusion. One contributor wrote this in the same CP4 thread:
"Perhaps I'm wrong Dave but I feel like you're trying to shut down any less than positive views."

As for my own posts and the responses thereto, I certainly didn't feel disrespected - just a vague sense that I was somehow less qualified to comment than "the Yamaha engineers, the people who they had beta test it, and more than a few folks on the forum who also pride themselves on their ability to evaluate piano sounds."

It can sometimes be very difficult to determine the emotion behind a web post, or the subtext - if any - and I may have read the situation totally wrongly.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2184090 - 11/17/13 06:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Honestly, I didn't see any ruffled feathers over there.

Could you point me to the thread? I don't go there much so it's like searching for an ego needle in a veritable haystack of egos.

Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

A number of the statements that helped give me the impression I mentioned were edited very shortly after posting. I doubt that a casual viewer would pick up on the sentiment - it's a very subtle thing, and as I said to Scott, I may be completely wrong. Also, this is derailing the thread here. Sorry chaps - nothing to see here - back to the topic at hand!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2184115 - 11/17/13 07:06 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Interesting stuff!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2184181 - 11/17/13 08:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
"the Yamaha engineers, the people who they had beta test it, and more than a few folks on the forum who also pride themselves on their ability to evaluate piano sounds."

You obviously hit a nerve, and this person's autonomic system managed to type out the equivalent of an involuntary reflex response.

Developers aren't always the most objective people, and beta testers sometimes work in a dull echo chamber. That products end up like they do can't entirely be chalked up to infinite wisdom and the like, no matter what impression the glossy promotional materials give.

[EDIT] I should add: engineers, much less beta testers, usually have little to no say about basic things like looping & stretching. These are fixed beforehand by the product feature team - which probably has its hands tied by the product tiering specialists currently running rampant in modern industry.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2184223 - 11/17/13 10:45 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Let me preface this by saying that I think the CP4 is a good stage piano that will meet the needs of many players....

...Having come from the Nord, I was just a tad disappointed.

YMMV!!!!!!!


Really interesting and enlightening review, thanks. I'm saving pennies now for an upgrade from the P120, and the CP4 (which I haven't physically seen in the 3D world) has been tops on my preliminary wish list, mainly because of the NWGH, the lightweight frame & the wooden/faux ivory-topped keys. I get what you mean by the stretching, and agree that in a >$2000 DP this isn't attractive.

The CP4 is still on my list, but you've certainly given me some points to keep in mind when I have the $$$ and as I pursue models to test from both Yamaha and Kawai.

If your review ruffled feathers over there (I took a look), that's their problem, not yours. It's possible, for all I know, that I will find a CP4 to play, decide that it's perfect, and disagree with your assessment totally. But this wouldn't mean that I don't appreciate your honest opinion. So thanks again!


Edited by Psychonaut (11/17/13 10:46 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

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#2184250 - 11/17/13 11:52 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, Psychonaut, and I do hope that you end up finding the CP4 perfect for your needs. It's disheartening when you get your hopes up (and your pennies saved) only to be disappointed.

I feel sure that you'll find the CP4 a big step up from the P120. My criticisms are mainly to do with technical issues, and certainly not with the great action, and overall sound quality. I expect some will think that my complaints are nitpicking, and I respect that. But I also think that when you're spending large sums, it's good to go in with eyes wide open.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2184258 - 11/18/13 12:06 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
sunrisemusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/08/13
Posts: 9
Thanks for the reviews, guys.

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#2184292 - 11/18/13 01:40 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
I owned a Yamaha P80, then I updated to P90. At this point, I bought a Roland FP7 (without hearing it.) I had planned on keeping both but quickly tired of what I thought at the time was a "sterile-ness," from Yamaha. (note: I did down-grade to FP4. Also, if I had chance to play FP7 first I would of went for FP4 from the get-go.)

What's my point? Be careful buying a DP, especially one over 2K, without trying it and it's siblings. Also, it's going to take a pry bar to move past my Roland FP4 at this point.

Addition: The sympathetic sounds from my Avantgrand are one of it's greatest features in sound. I'm amazed that Yamaha left that out of CP4. Like it was stated in an earlier thread, the CP4 maybe has more in common with CP33 then CP1/5. It sounds like Yamaha abandoned CP1/5 interface and features and took CP33 and updated sounds and action. That's why features like lid and strike points, sympathetic, etc. are gone.


Edited by 36251 (11/18/13 01:47 AM)
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AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2184365 - 11/18/13 07:55 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Interesting stuff!

James
x


Yup; it certainly leaves the door open for the competition. NAMM will be exiting ;-)

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#2184455 - 11/18/13 10:55 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
RonL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 181
Took my CP4 to a gig on Friday - a jam session in a nice sized room - was cool to hear how it sounded from the audience perspective while other piano players were on stage. I thought it sounded great.

So I am definitely keeping it, I like the feel, the sound and weight. Nothing is perfect but this more than covers my needs and I am very pleased.

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#2184903 - 11/19/13 02:10 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: RonL]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1733
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Hearing your DP played out in front by other players is indeed a very ear opening experience.

I used to play at a jam session every week where my friend used a humble P155-- yet it always sounded very believable through the house sound system.

Years ago at an outdoor concert in Pasadena, I let the pianist use my CP300 to accompany the vocalist in a musical theatre type style. Through the huge PA in the park, it sounded just like a high quality grand piano.

I've played an older Kurzweil PC2X of my friend. While I was playing up on stage, through his speakers, it didn't sound so good..but out in the audience the effect was totally the opposite. They had him running a tad into the house system and it added a lot to the sound.

I've heard my CP5 played on one occasion where you could close your eyes and think it was a high end Yamaha CF III 9'er being played.

Ditto with my Nord on the few occasions I've been able to slip out front and listen to another player on it.

I'm certain with the right speakers, in the right room, the CP4 is stunningly realistic !
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

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#2185522 - 11/20/13 07:12 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 542
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
i am in nashville on business and had a couple hours to kill last night so went to the local GC, which had a CP4 on the floor. Now, typical for GC- they stuck in 5 feet in the air on a rack and didn't have a sustain pedal hooked up to it, but it at least gave me a chance to tinker around.

i thought the action was unbelievably good- and i realized after going from that to the casio pianos just how important that was to me. the keys just felt great- from the tactile sensation of the fake ivory to the responsiveness of the light but still firm weighted action. was better than anything else in there, even the RD700 which has the same action as my V-dog.

i thought the AP's and EPs sounded really good, but that was probably influenced by my excitement at getting to play one. the reverb effect with the AP's really helped create a pleasing sound. on the website demos i think the CFIII sounds best but in the store the CFX sounded nicer. i also love the S6 for the way i play.

its not much to look at. just a dark gray plastic slab. i appreciated the comment earlier about the nord's weight being similar but still being housed in metal. i would be concerned about the CP4's ability to be banged around. i would accept 5 lbs more weight for a sturdier feel, although the board did NOT look cheap.

i am beginning to wonder if stage pianos and studio pianos are becoming two different animals. i'd tote the cp4 around in a minute- i think it would be a nice piano for road work, but would take great care to get a padded case for it. the commentary about the shortcomings of the sample set are disturbing to me, even though i liked what i heard. I know how our perceptions change as the newness of a keyboard purchase wears off and we begin to deal with reality.

they had a cp40 right below it and it just didn't feel close. i wouldn't opt to save the 500 bucks to go that route.

i would love to compare the ES7 side by side if i could ever find one.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#2185589 - 11/20/13 10:09 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: bfb
i am in nashville on business and had a couple hours to kill last night so went to the local GC, which had a CP4 on the floor. Now, typical for GC- they stuck in 5 feet in the air on a rack and didn't have a sustain pedal hooked up to it, but it at least gave me a chance to tinker around.


Ain't that the truth !! ha

But at least the Nashville GC had one on display. NONE of the GC's in the state of Arizona are even carrying the CP4 or CP40 (much less the CP5 or CP50).

Thanks for sharing your impressions. Very helpful !!
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#2185657 - 11/20/13 11:39 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
36251 Online   content
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It sounds like the people at Bain are designing the displays - not musicians. That same display is in Massachusetts. Five Yamaha DP's with the newest and "best" is at the very top and basically unplayable. Critical thinking at its best.
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#2185765 - 11/20/13 02:31 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: 36251]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: 36251
It sounds like the people at Bain are designing the displays - not musicians. That same display is in Massachusetts. Five Yamaha DP's with the newest and "best" is at the very top and basically unplayable. Critical thinking at its best.


Or just plain stupidity...... crazy
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#2185767 - 11/20/13 02:36 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: bfb
i am in nashville on business and had a couple hours to kill last night so went to the local GC, which had a CP4 on the floor. Now, typical for GC- they stuck in 5 feet in the air on a rack and didn't have a sustain pedal hooked up to it, but it at least gave me a chance to tinker around.

i thought the action was unbelievably good- and i realized after going from that to the casio pianos just how important that was to me. the keys just felt great- from the tactile sensation of the fake ivory to the responsiveness of the light but still firm weighted action. was better than anything else in there, even the RD700 which has the same action as my V-dog.

i thought the AP's and EPs sounded really good, but that was probably influenced by my excitement at getting to play one. the reverb effect with the AP's really helped create a pleasing sound. on the website demos i think the CFIII sounds best but in the store the CFX sounded nicer. i also love the S6 for the way i play.

its not much to look at. just a dark gray plastic slab. i appreciated the comment earlier about the nord's weight being similar but still being housed in metal. i would be concerned about the CP4's ability to be banged around. i would accept 5 lbs more weight for a sturdier feel, although the board did NOT look cheap.

i am beginning to wonder if stage pianos and studio pianos are becoming two different animals. i'd tote the cp4 around in a minute- i think it would be a nice piano for road work, but would take great care to get a padded case for it. the commentary about the shortcomings of the sample set are disturbing to me, even though i liked what i heard. I know how our perceptions change as the newness of a keyboard purchase wears off and we begin to deal with reality.

they had a cp40 right below it and it just didn't feel close. i wouldn't opt to save the 500 bucks to go that route.

i would love to compare the ES7 side by side if i could ever find one.


Nice review. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to type this out.

Thus far limited to virtual window shopping, I too have been comparing specs and listening to demos specifically of the ES7 and the CP4, which my wish list is focusing on right now. In terms of specs, there are some major differences, and I'm sort of a "tweener" regarding pitch and mod wheels, etc, and do have work-arounds for the limitations of both models. For instance I have no use for onboard rhythm patterns of the ES7, but while I don't need onboard speakers, I think they would be nice to have... But ultimately, I want to play both of them, and am pretty sure at least one if not both will be "just right" in terms of the key action and response, as the CP4 seems to have been for you. The action is pretty much everything for me, as I'll mainly use VSTi pianos anyway, so the sounds merely have to be "good enough" to get by in isolated situations.
_________________________
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#2185964 - 11/20/13 09:48 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: carey]
Charles Cohen Offline
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Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1541
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
A request for a test:

. . . Could somebody with a CP4 (or access to one)
. . . test it for "string resonance" ?

Two tests:

. . . Hold down (and do not release) C/E/G one
. . . octave above middle C,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C below middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for the higher C/E/G chord.

It'll be there, or not.

Second test:

. . . Hold down C below middle C, do not release,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C/E/G above middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for a continued "ring" of the C/E/G
. . . after the dampers come down (after the staccato strike)

You can do these tests on an acoustic piano, and see how it _should_ sound. Most DP's are deficient.

Thanks --

. Charles

PS -- a CP-4 will eventually come to Canada, but not yet . . .



Edited by Charles Cohen (11/20/13 09:49 PM)

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#2186011 - 11/20/13 11:31 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Charles Cohen]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
A request for a test:

. . . Could somebody with a CP4 (or access to one)
. . . test it for "string resonance" ?

Two tests:

. . . Hold down (and do not release) C/E/G one
. . . octave above middle C,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C below middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for the higher C/E/G chord.

It'll be there, or not.

Second test:

. . . Hold down C below middle C, do not release,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C/E/G above middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for a continued "ring" of the C/E/G
. . . after the dampers come down (after the staccato strike)

You can do these tests on an acoustic piano, and see how it _should_ sound. Most DP's are deficient.

Thanks --

. Charles

PS -- a CP-4 will eventually come to Canada, but not yet . . .



I've checked this on the CP4 and sadly there is no harmonic string resonance. I even checked the damper resonance and damper resonance 2 insert effect hoping for some implementation of harmonic string resonance (as a multi effect algorithm type) but nope....the CP4 does not have it.

I really hope the Kawai MP7 comes soon!
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP4, Yamaha P-255B, Roland RD-64, Roland RD800

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#2186012 - 11/20/13 11:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I'm seriously tempted to post an audio clip...

But I'll hold off. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2186046 - 11/21/13 01:19 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
How about a sneaky preview pic?
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#2186049 - 11/21/13 01:30 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rhodie73]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
A request for a test:

. . . Could somebody with a CP4 (or access to one)
. . . test it for "string resonance" ?

Two tests:

. . . Hold down (and do not release) C/E/G one
. . . octave above middle C,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C below middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for the higher C/E/G chord.

It'll be there, or not.

Second test:

. . . Hold down C below middle C, do not release,
. . . and wait for any sound to die away;

. . . Strike C/E/G above middle C, FF, staccato;

. . . Listen for a continued "ring" of the C/E/G
. . . after the dampers come down (after the staccato strike)

You can do these tests on an acoustic piano, and see how it _should_ sound. Most DP's are deficient.

Thanks --

. Charles

PS -- a CP-4 will eventually come to Canada, but not yet . . .



I've checked this on the CP4 and sadly there is no harmonic string resonance. I even checked the damper resonance and damper resonance 2 insert effect hoping for some implementation of harmonic string resonance (as a multi effect algorithm type) but nope....the CP4 does not have it.

Yes, that was one of the first things I tested for (closely followed by looping and stretching). It was when I put all the small deficiencies together that I realized I couldn't live with it, despite its great action and overall pleasant tone.

I've just purchased the Bluthner (sorry, can't find the umlaut) add-on for Pianoteq, and am looking for a small, but powerful tablet to sit on the PX-5S's battery cover. Am wondering if there's enough oomph in the new Bay Trail Atoms to run it, or if I'll have to spring for the Surface Pro. The Bluthner is Pianoteq's current crowning achievement, IMO.

I'll be very interested to try the MP7 when it comes out, but I'm getting tired of waiting for a really fine emulation in a lightweight DP.
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#2186055 - 11/21/13 02:01 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
How about a sneaky preview pic?


It wouldn't be right to hijack the thread. wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2186105 - 11/21/13 04:18 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 251
Loc: Czech Republic
About pedal resonance - does that mean that pressing the pedal down and hitting a key sounds excatly the same like merely hitting (a holding) the key with pedal up?

Also I must have missed some "announcement" of MP7 - is this a confirmed thing? Any specs known? What about MP10's successor, anything?;-)

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#2186134 - 11/21/13 07:16 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: voxpops
am looking for a small, but powerful tablet to sit on the PX-5S's battery cover. Am wondering if there's enough oomph in the new Bay Trail Atoms

Thanks for the pointer, I hadn't known about these. Looks promising...

http://www.zdnet.com/dells-8-inch-windows-tablet-makes-a-big-impression-7000023453/

though of course, the one glitch the reviewer found in that model is a deal-killer:

"The only hardware glitch I’ve encountered is an annoying tendency of the audio to distort when the screen shuts down while running on battery power."

Now you know something to specifically check for on these things! He adds "That issue will no doubt be fixed with a driver update sometime soon." We'll see...

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#2186138 - 11/21/13 07:21 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
DPs are all about compromise. And stats don't always mean a lot in the playing experience. In theory, the Kronos pianos should blast all other DPs out of the water - multi-sampled, no loops whatsoever. In practice, I found them less than inspiring to play.

In the heat of a noisy gig, over a less than ideal PA (which probably describes 90% of my gigs and, I suspect, those of any live musician here as well), how often are you really going to notice a bit of looping in the sample? I suspect the answer is 'not often' and I'm damn sure your audience aren't going to either.

I suspect that the odd corner has been cut in the CP4 to keep the price under a certain point, but for many it will hit a 'sweet spot' of sounding good enough, having a nice responsive keybed (really half the battle) and coming in at the right weight.

For recording, it's another story. But for that purpose, I don't think anyone would choose ANY native DP's output over a high-end software instrument or, in a pro environment, a properly tuned and regulated acoustic.
_________________________
Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#2186140 - 11/21/13 07:24 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: voxpops
How about a sneaky preview pic?


It wouldn't be right to hijack the thread. wink

James
x


I could start a new thread and you can hijack that one James.....I wouldn't mind, lol!
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP4, Yamaha P-255B, Roland RD-64, Roland RD800

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#2186169 - 11/21/13 08:32 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Aidan]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Aidan
DPs are all about compromise. And stats don't always mean a lot in the playing experience. In theory, the Kronos pianos should blast all other DPs out of the water - multi-sampled, no loops whatsoever. In practice, I found them less than inspiring to play.

In the heat of a noisy gig, over a less than ideal PA (which probably describes 90% of my gigs and, I suspect, those of any live musician here as well), how often are you really going to notice a bit of looping in the sample? I suspect the answer is 'not often' and I'm damn sure your audience aren't going to either.

I suspect that the odd corner has been cut in the CP4 to keep the price under a certain point, but for many it will hit a 'sweet spot' of sounding good enough, having a nice responsive keybed (really half the battle) and coming in at the right weight.

For recording, it's another story. But for that purpose, I don't think anyone would choose ANY native DP's output over a high-end software instrument or, in a pro environment, a properly tuned and regulated acoustic.


I totally agree with everything here, but in this day of technology, there should a DP that can fit both the stage and studio recording environments. I think that even though Kawai still has looping they are certainly getting closer and I applaud their efforts. Roland with its SuperNatural piano engine (especially the Studio Grand from the RD700NX) probably is the best example of covering both situations. The V-piano can't realistically be brought by one person to the stage so I have ommitted it....plus I'm still not 100% in love with the tone even though you can customize it.
All I'm saying is that I really had high hopes for the CP4 but was let down by the fact that they took away certain customizing parameters and never implemented the many of acoustical effects of the piano like Yamaha's competitors do. I'm not here to shoot down the CP4 or insult anyone that is enjoying it. It truly has a nice tone and action, but I feel that Yamaha didn't really go forward with this product, more lateral. Just my own opinion of course.
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP4, Yamaha P-255B, Roland RD-64, Roland RD800

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#2186219 - 11/21/13 09:53 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
I'm not on the market for a new DP, but if I was, it would have to have sympathetic voices. It's obviously not that important in a loud band, but I think it adds to the experience for trio, etc.

It's also about these big companies cutting corners at the expense of musicians. I know these are specialty items but our community should send a message with our pocketbooks.

Sidebar - I own a FP4 and when Roland updated to FP4f they removed most of the effects. I think if anything they should of given us more. Their logic might of been to force us to get more expensive model but IMO, that's a flawed concept, since the people buying the 4 wants a lighter piano, but still just as many features (or at least not less than previous version.)
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2186220 - 11/21/13 09:53 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
Yeah, I hear you. Personally, I'm waiting for Nord to (hopefully) release a new version of the Stage OS which has the softer velocity curve of the new NP2 OS before making judgment. If that could help me play a little more subtly and easily in the lower end of the dynamic range, I'll probably stick with my NS2 rather than jump ship for the CP4, despite the more subtle keybed.
_________________________
Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#2186237 - 11/21/13 10:22 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I hadn't known about these. Looks promising...

http://www.zdnet.com/dells-8-inch-windows-tablet-makes-a-big-impression-7000023453/

though of course, the one glitch the reviewer found in that model is a deal-killer:

"The only hardware glitch I’ve encountered is an annoying tendency of the audio to distort when the screen shuts down while running on battery power."

Now you know something to specifically check for on these things! He adds "That issue will no doubt be fixed with a driver update sometime soon." We'll see...

Thanks for that link, Scott. Unfortunately, the 8" models use the slower processor, and that may be too restrictive for Pianoteq. I was thinking it would have to be one with the 3770 quad-core (that turboboosts to 2.4 Ghz). There are very few models out there at the moment - this seems to be the best contender, currently:
HP Omni 10
The 10.1" size is a little cumbersome, and it has only a micro-USB port, which would require an adapter, so it's not ideal, but it might be made to work.

Apologies for the OT post.

As for Aidan's comment on the CP4, I agree - if we're talking $1k-1.5k - but at $2k+ I expect the small refinements that allow a DP to be used in all circumstances: on stage, in the recording studio, in chamber recitals etc., and without the player being conscious of cost-reduction "tricks."
_________________________
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#2186242 - 11/21/13 10:35 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
anotherscott Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
The other issue with the Windows tablets is that, as far as I'm seeing, they charge through the USB port which is also how you would connect MIDI... which means, I think, there's no way to charge them while using them. Better make sure you're well charged before the gig starts! If you happen to have run it down inadvertently, you may be SOL.

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#2186251 - 11/21/13 10:48 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
The other issue with the Windows tablets is that, as far as I'm seeing, they charge through the USB port which is also how you would connect MIDI... which means, I think, there's no way to charge them while using them. Better make sure you're well charged before the gig starts! If you happen to have run it down inadvertently, you may be SOL.

That's a good point! From what I can tell from the very limited info/pics on the Omni, there is a dedicated charging port next to the micro-USB socket.
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#2186365 - 11/21/13 01:47 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
sydnal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 126
In the age of GHZ speed arm processors cheaper than a McDonald's meal, someone has to really try hard to convince me omitting some of those features (like sympathetic resonance) is a cost concern.
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#2186378 - 11/21/13 02:13 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
David Farley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
So some of the higher end Yamaha models apparently do have string resonance. Is the sound engine on those pianos different than what's in the CP4?

I didn't quite understand what Yamaha was really trying to do with the CP4 until I stumbled onto this page in another forum. Is there anything about this scheme that makes including string resonance awkward?

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/cp4_stage

(I have a CP40, which I like. It was a huge step up from what I had.)

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#2186422 - 11/21/13 03:37 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
(sorry, can't find the umlaut)

Have you checked the couch cushions?

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
I've checked this on the CP4 and sadly there is no harmonic string resonance. I even checked the damper resonance and damper resonance 2 insert effect hoping for some implementation of harmonic string resonance (as a multi effect algorithm type) but nope....the CP4 does not have it.

Count yourself among the exceedingly lucky if you are able to get decent damper resonance from your Yamaha DP, much less string resonance. I'm not a mind reader, but given an inspection of their products they don't seem to think it's very important - though I would list it at or near the top of what makes the AP sound so rich and beautiful.

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
It truly has a nice tone and action, but I feel that Yamaha didn't really go forward with this product, more lateral.

We get baby steps forward once in a while, and the multitude of lateral moves often have a huge portion of taketh away included along with the whole givething thing.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
In the heat of a noisy gig, over a less than ideal PA (which probably describes 90% of my gigs and, I suspect, those of any live musician here as well), how often are you really going to notice a bit of looping in the sample? I suspect the answer is 'not often' and I'm damn sure your audience aren't going to either.

I know I'm super weird, but my ears start to bleed whenever they hear a crap DP just about anywhere and under just about any circumstances.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
For recording, it's another story. But for that purpose, I don't think anyone would choose ANY native DP's output over a high-end software instrument or, in a pro environment, a properly tuned and regulated acoustic.

Such a sad, sad state of affairs we find ourselves in. What year is it again? (checks DP) looks like 1993, oh wait (checks calendar) 2013, my bad.

Originally Posted By: sydnal
In the age of GHZ speed arm processors cheaper than a McDonald's meal, someone has to really try hard to convince me omitting some of those features (like sympathetic resonance) is a cost concern.

The DP industry doesn't need to show you any stinkin' GHz ARM processors!

Originally Posted By: David Farley
I didn't quite understand what Yamaha was really trying to do with the CP4 until I stumbled onto this page in another forum. Is there anything about this scheme that makes including string resonance awkward?

From that link: "You are basically provided complete multi-samples of three very expensive Yamaha acoustic pianos: the CFX, the CFIIIS and the S6." I'd really hate to encounter whatever Yamaha describes as an incomplete multi-sample.
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#2186443 - 11/21/13 04:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: dewster
I'd really hate to encounter whatever Yamaha describes as an incomplete multi-sample.

It reminds me of when another vendor said that the sounds included in their new low end keyboard were "hand picked" from their flagship model. As opposed to selected via a random number generator?

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#2186479 - 11/21/13 05:18 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: dewster]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
Originally Posted By: dewster
From that link: "You are basically provided complete multi-samples of three very expensive Yamaha acoustic pianos: the CFX, the CFIIIS and the S6." I'd really hate to encounter whatever Yamaha describes as an incomplete multi-sample.
The out word "basically."
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#2186501 - 11/21/13 06:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
It reminds me of when another vendor said that the sounds included in their new low end keyboard were "hand picked" from their flagship model. As opposed to selected via a random number generator?


I hope that wasn't me...
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2186504 - 11/21/13 06:30 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
It reminds me of when another vendor said that the sounds included in their new low end keyboard were "hand picked" from their flagship model. As opposed to selected via a random number generator?


I hope that wasn't me...

LOL, nope, not you, James!

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#2186511 - 11/21/13 06:56 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
LOL, nope, not you, James!


Phew.

So I'm okay to use that line in future marketing materials? wink
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#2186526 - 11/21/13 07:23 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Online   content
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4368
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
So I'm okay to use that line in future marketing materials? wink

Maybe you could work "fresh squeezed" in there somehow as well.
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#2186538 - 11/21/13 07:52 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Originally Posted By: dewster
Maybe you could work "fresh squeezed" in there somehow as well.


I believe "freshly squeezed" is the term used by the man from Del Monte...
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2186751 - 11/22/13 07:34 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
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Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1720
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: voxpops
How about a sneaky preview pic?


It wouldn't be right to hijack the thread. wink

James
x


Of course it would be ...its called ambush marketing
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#2186761 - 11/22/13 07:51 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kawai James]
Psychonaut Offline
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Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I'm seriously tempted to post an audio clip...

But I'll hold off. wink


You're no longer a hijacker, by definition, once you've been formally invited into the cockpit. I would like to hear this audio clip...

... One of these days I'm going to learn that no matter how much I virtually window shop and read forum posts, I'm going to know little more than I know now about upgrading my DP until I get to a music store where I can actually try them.
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#2186818 - 11/22/13 10:35 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
bfb Offline
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Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 542
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
I too, KJ, would like to know what you've got in your Kawai bag of tricks. As i scrutinize products for a more portable, good sounding board with a grand-like action, I really would like to consider Kawai's offerings. I wish i could try some of them- know any retailers in the Atlanta GA USA MSA that carry the ES7 or MP6? I've had no luck locating any... and if the MP6 is getting ready for a refresh (or a similar product in that tier of the market), I'm all ears.


Edited by bfb (11/22/13 10:36 AM)
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#2187008 - 11/22/13 06:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 251
Loc: Czech Republic
James, can you at least tell us when you'll be able to tell us something? It would be like a pre-teaser, no harm done, right?;-)

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#2187038 - 11/22/13 07:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: bfb
I wish i could try some of them- know any retailers in the Atlanta GA USA MSA that carry the ES7 or MP6?


Not off the top of my head, I'm afraid.

The MP6 is typically sold by the musical instrument chain stores and online retailers rather than Kawai dealers. However, the ES7 should be available at both chain stores and Kawai dealers.

My recommendation would be to use the Dealer Locator on the Kawai US website, or contact my colleagues in America directly to enquire into where these models can be play-tested in your area.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2187040 - 11/22/13 07:08 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Hookxs]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9691
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
James, can you at least tell us when you'll be able to tell us something?


Not for a little while yet.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2187077 - 11/22/13 09:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Hey guys check your mailboxes, there's a Kawai ad on the last page for an apparently unreleased product ... wink

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#2187304 - 11/23/13 12:01 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
I had a chance to sit down at two good upright APs and test some of this resonance stuff, and I have to admit it was an enlightening experience. That said, when I go back and sit at my CP40 and play it doesn't scream at me that I'm missing something, which is interesting.

Voxpops - I've been listening to the nice PS-5X piano tracks you posted to Soundcloud. Could you compare the action on the PS-5X to the CP4? (This question is also for anybody else who has had access to both.) Thanks.

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#2187341 - 11/23/13 01:16 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
sunrisemusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/08/13
Posts: 9
Hey guys, anyone using a CP4/40 as a controller for software piano/s? I'm curious how the delay time might be and how the playing experience is. Thanks.

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#2187351 - 11/23/13 01:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: sunrisemusic]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: sunrisemusic
Hey guys, anyone using a CP4/40 as a controller for software piano/s? I'm curious how the delay time might be and how the playing experience is. Thanks.


I've used mine on the iPad 4 with iGrand Piano and CMP Grand Piano using the USB camera connector. These are nowhere near the quality of a computer-based software piano, but the latency was no problem. Works great with keyboard-oriented synths like Magellan and Addictive, too. I haven't got ambitious enough to go beyond the iPad.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

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#2187353 - 11/23/13 01:39 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
David Farley Offline
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Loc: Illinois
Let me add that CMP Grand Piano is waaaaay better than the iGrand Piano stuff, with huge samples, and shows some promise. I've actually used it to play for long periods of time instead of the CFIII, just for a change.

Someone else pointed out somewhere that software pianos can be useful mixed with the built-in samples, and there seems to be something to this. In particular the iGrand Piano "Rock Upright" sounded kind of interesting mixed in on top of the CFIII. It's fun to play around with.

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#2187358 - 11/23/13 01:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
funkycornwall Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Cornwall. UK
I have a Casio PX-5S which is great in including so many features and incredible portability. I played the Yamaha CP4 in a London shop recently and the action feels very comfortable and satisfying. However apart from maybe being slightly quieter I am not sure if it much (if any) better than the Casio action. I feel that Casio have really nailed the good action versus portability issue with this current series of keyboards. I was pretty impressed with the sounds on the CP4 though I thought the electric pianos were better than the acoustic. Like others have said I am pretty surprised that there is no acoustic resonance in this top of the range Yamaha instrument. You might not notice it so much in a band situation but if you were playing slow tempo solo piano with plenty of pedalling I think you would certainly notice the lack of it. The Casio PX-5S has it and you can adjust the various parameters.

In my PX-5S I probably use about a hundredth of its potential as I have made performance settings for piano, piano with strings, a nice rhodes, a nice wurlie and a wurlie with strings which are basically the sounds I need. I have also made some backing tracks (don't shout at me) and for this the installed USB wave player is great. You can also set up one the controllers to adjust the wave file playback volume which is handy. If you had an iPad or other mp3 player it is just as easy to output this through the Casio. The USB to device in the CP4 is at the back (why?)and you seem to have to delve through a few menus to adjust the output volume. They also didn't mark the inputs and outputs on the top of the CP4 only at the back - why? The Casio has them all clearly marked at the top.

I cannot see why Casio in their Pro performance piano decide not to include a music stand. Do they think no one reads music any more? The CP4 has the facilities for a music stand but guess what - you have to pay extra for it. I simply put a firm music stand up behind the Casio which functions OK.

The Yamaha is twice the price of the Casio and so I guess you would expect it to be better.

It will be very interesting to see what Kawai come up with next - I think there is an opening for someone to produce a really outstanding and lightweight product.

Hope that's helpful

Tony

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#2187363 - 11/23/13 02:10 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
Tony - thanks.

I read somewhere that the PS-5X started out as a successor to the XWP line and then was re-imagined along the way as a DP. Somehow this transition explains the odd omissions, like no music stand and no half-pedaling. Maybe Mike Martin will correct me.

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#2187366 - 11/23/13 02:19 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: David Farley]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: David Farley
Voxpops - I've been listening to the nice PS-5X piano tracks you posted to Soundcloud. Could you compare the action on the PS-5X to the CP4? (This question is also for anybody else who has had access to both.) Thanks.

David, my replacement PX is still in transit to me, and so my poor memory of the first PX I owned some months ago is all I have to go on - and I only had a few hours with the CP4.

What I will say is that for its size and weight the PX-5S has a remarkably good action, which is capable of accomplishing most pianistic tasks. It takes a little while to get used to its response characteristics, and it has a fairly weighty feel. Repetition is good but not as fast/accurate as Roland's (either Ivory-Feel G or S). The CP4 has a more refined feel, and I would suggest that it's at least on a par with PHAIII. On an evening's gig, I would prefer to play the CP4's action over the Casio's.

I'm not sure this helps much, but if weight and price are not an issue, I'd go with the CP4. For me, since I didn't think the CP4s sounds warranted paying more than twice the price, I decided to opt for the weight/cost savings and try a Pianoteq hookup to the PX-5S.
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#2187367 - 11/23/13 02:21 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2475
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: funkycornwall
Like others have said I am pretty surprised that there is no acoustic resonance in this top of the range Yamaha instrument. You might not notice it so much in a band situation but if you were playing slow tempo solo piano with plenty of pedalling I think you would certainly notice the lack of it. The Casio PX-5S has it and you can adjust the various parameters.

This is misleading IMHO. The CP4 does have (adjustable) damper resonance. It just does not have string resonance (where keys are held down but damper remains unpressed). Slow tempo solo with lots of pedal is hardly going to be a problem.

Lack of string resonance is not going to be a problem most of the time in a stage piano, where it is used as a (minor)keyboards addition to the track or mix in modern music. Most of the time, I said. I would guess Yamaha are happy with the degree of success they get using this sound model at presumably their target marketplace.

Maybe I will change my mind when I have play tested it.

Having said this I do agree with Rhodies post ,where I am surprised that the technology does not allow for a common design between stage and studio piano. In which case the lack of string resonance is a killer.

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#2187369 - 11/23/13 02:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
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Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: funkycornwall
It will be very interesting to see what Kawai come up with next - I think there is an opening for someone to produce a really outstanding and lightweight product.

So true! I wonder if they've been listening......
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#2187373 - 11/23/13 02:29 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: spanishbuddha]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
The CP4 does have (adjustable) damper resonance. It just does not have string resonance (where keys are held down but damper remains unpressed). Slow tempo solo with lots of pedal is hardly going to be a problem.

Lack of string resonance is not going to be a problem most of the time in a stage piano, where it is used as a (minor)keyboards addition to the track or mix in modern music. Most of the time, I said.


I agree with this, but as others have pointed out, a high-end DP these days should be capable of covering all situations - not just stage use for modern music.

For me, it was the combination of lack of string resonance, audible (and quite ugly) stretching, static looping, somewhat limited dynamics, and the lack of a truly robust chassis that, when added together, made me extremely reluctant to part with $2k for the CP.
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#2187378 - 11/23/13 02:36 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
Voxpops - thanks, that clarifies things for me.

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#2187401 - 11/23/13 03:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]
bfb Offline
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Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 542
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: voxpops

What I will say is that for its size and weight the PX-5S has a remarkably good action, which is capable of accomplishing most pianistic tasks. It takes a little while to get used to its response characteristics, and it has a fairly weighty feel. Repetition is good but not as fast/accurate as Roland's (either Ivory-Feel G or S). The CP4 has a more refined feel, and I would suggest that it's at least on a par with PHAIII. On an evening's gig, I would prefer to play the CP4's action over the Casio's.

I'm not sure this helps much, but if weight and price are not an issue, I'd go with the CP4. For me, since I didn't think the CP4s sounds warranted paying more than twice the price, I decided to opt for the weight/cost savings and try a Pianoteq hookup to the PX-5S.


i played both back to back and i think this sums it up nicely. The Casio's action felt a bit loose and to me represented additional work, the CP4's felt really tight but light and fast and was inspiring. for me that was definitely noticeable. But the Casio was over a thousand dollars cheaper. that is real money. you can't divorce that from the comparison. The casio may very well offer a lot more value per piano dollar than the $2000 CP4 and the CP4 may do the same vs the $3000 NP 2. money and value delivered per dollar spent cannot be ignored. That said, if you pay 1000 bucks for something that leaves you unsatisfied and the 2000 buck job stimulates your playing and makes you ultimately better at this, well that incremental 1000 spent has pretty significant value.


Edited by bfb (11/23/13 03:12 PM)
_________________________

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#2187429 - 11/23/13 04:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: bfb
if you pay 1000 bucks for something that leaves you unsatisfied and the 2000 buck job stimulates your playing and makes you ultimately better at this, well that incremental 1000 spent has pretty significant value.


That is so true - which is why Kawai James's ears should be burning (to a crisp!) right now. wink
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#2187446 - 11/23/13 05:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: David Farley]
anotherscott Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: David Farley
I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

see
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2108899/MIDI_input_direct_or_USB.html

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#2187472 - 11/23/13 06:37 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 470
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: David Farley
I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

see
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2108899/MIDI_input_direct_or_USB.html


That explains it, thanks. There's no noise if I have the headphones plugged into the iPad - only when looped back to the board and out to the speakers. Must be a ground issue.

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#2189075 - 11/27/13 06:59 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
thomsurf Offline
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Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 154
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Went to my local DP retailer yesterday to put my hands on the CP4. I had very high expectations from reading the KC thread, but also more realistic ones after reading this thread.
I really, really tried to like it, but I couldn't. I found the main piano sounds to be quite uninspiring with lacking decay and a bit of a metallic tone to them. I listened with Sennheiser headphones and also the monitors provided on the spot.
Now, I'm aware that the CP4 probably works perfect once your're onstage using a pa system, or playing solo at a reception or party with background noise and what not. I do these kinds of gigs, but I also play a lot at home in front of good studio monitors or with headphones. For my taste, the CP4 is simply not good enough for the that. Just too sterile and un-organic. This is 2013 and the bar needs to be raised.
After some years of experience with what the Roland Supernatural sound can do, I simply do not get why a major brand like Yamaha don't get their act together and take that great leap forward in creating a DP that will blow us all away -whatever use the players will throw at it.




Edited by thomsurf (11/27/13 08:13 AM)
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#2189104 - 11/27/13 08:39 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: thomsurf]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Went to my local DP retailer yesterday to put my hands on the CP4. I had very high expectations from reading the KC thread, but also more realistic ones after reading this thread.
I really, really tried to like it, but I couldn't. I found the main piano sounds to be quite uninspiring with lacking decay and a bit of a metallic tone to them. I listened with Sennheiser headphones and also the monitors provided on the spot.
Now, I'm aware that the CP4 probably works perfect once your're onstage using a pa system, or playing solo at a reception or party with background noise and what not. I do these kinds of gigs, but I also play a lot at home in front of good studio monitors or with headphones. For my taste, the CP4 is simply not good enough for the that. Just too sterile and un-organic. This is 2013 and the bar needs to be raised.
After some years of experience with what the Roland Supernatural sound can do, I simply do not get why a major brand like Yamaha don't get their act together and take that great leap forward in creating a DP that will blow us all away -whatever use the players will throw at it.




I was kind of on the same line of thinking. This is probably why I didn't plunge and get the CP4 after I played it and decided that my Yamaha P-120 was still adequate for my purposes. Honestly I understand why some people here on the forums have been sticking with their aging CP33 and others still buying them new in 2013. If you want a solid "cheap" Yamaha (as in price) that offers basic piano functions, there ya go! Why pay over 2k for a piano that doesn't even attempt to offer the same specs as every other DP manufacturer in 2013!

So I'm holding on to my P-120 until Kawai or even Roland release something that offers a better portable piano experience, hopefully at NAMM.....like we say every year, lol
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#2189181 - 11/27/13 12:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
Does anyone think Yamaha is reading these threads? I guess if you fork over a large chunk of money for Avantgrand, then Yamaha delivers (at least in my case - I love both sound and action,) but it's not portable wink I've owned a p-100, p80 and p90 and it wasn't until I got a Roland FP4 did I realize what I've always hated about Yamaha stage pianos - sterile, un-inspired samples. In the store for 10 minutes you'll hear a piano, better than a lot of other brands, but in the real world of playing often, you realize the issue.


Edited by 36251 (11/27/13 12:13 PM)
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#2226235 - 02/05/14 09:46 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Kevin Keys Offline
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Registered: 02/02/14
Posts: 36
Loc: Ohio
I am almost ready to get the cp4.

I am mainly interested in AP sounds because that is what I will use 95 percent of the time.

I have been comparing the following:

Kawai ES7- sounds good in demos but I have not been able to play it in person.
I wish Kawai would make their instruments more accessable.
I went to the Kawai dealer in town and they said they might get one in- that was over two months ago. They wanted me to play on one of their home models because it has the same action as the ES7, and then buy the ES7 blind.I cant buy a DP without playing(and hearing it in person) first. I also think the ES7 might be too heavy and bulky for my gigging purposes.

Kurtzweil Artis - also sounds good but I didn't like the action at all.

Nord DP's (Stage II)- They are the best sounding and most realistic but too expensive. I would be worried taking a $4000 board to my gigs. I would be afraid it would be A) stolen or B) broken.

Roland 700NX - It has a very nice piano sound. It is beautiful sounding, almost too perfect that it becomes artificial at times. It is definitely a contender though. I don't like the weight.

I think I would like to play the new Rd800. It is lighter than the 700 and may even sound better. I listened to the demos and wasn't blown away. I would like to hear a live recording of it and also hear it in person.

Yamaha CP4
I have been impressed with the online audio and video demos. I need to get my hands on it though. I was most impressed with some of the "unofficial" demos on YouTube. These were live vids of a gigging situation. The cp4 sounded good through the PA- full bodied and believable. To me it is how these pianos perform live that is most important.
I am giving the edge to the Cp4 for this reason.
_________________________
Kawai MP7(home), Yamaha CP33(gigs), Yamaha P80(retired), three QSC K10's, Allen and Heath Zed 10fx mixer, Sennheiser HD598, Bachendorff acoustic 45"

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#2226357 - 02/05/14 01:59 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kevin Keys]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1733
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

CP4 definitely plays and sounds better then the ES7.

Ditto on the Artis. When Kurzweil puts at least the TP40L Fatar action on that board, I could see it becoming a more serious contender among all the others.

The size and weight of the new 800 would probably take it off my radar. Often people don't figure the extra weight of even what a soft case adds. Even a basic Gator/SKB with wheels is what ? ...at least 15 lbs. ? So you're back to at least 60 lbs. with the 800.

I don't know the gross weight, but my NP2, in its dedicated Nord soft case, at times feels about as much as I wanna deal with these days at age 60. wink

Again the 800 does have an excellent tone in a few of those demos, and maybe it would sound good live through good speakers. I've just not had good history overall with Rolands live . If it were me, I'd play it safe and go with the CP4. I've played it twice now and it's solid--sonically, action, schlepping weight and build quality.

Personally I'm hanging with the Nord for the time being, as I just spent a ton of dough on a Steve Potts custom titanium mountain bike...I could have bought 4 CP4s with what I'm going to spend on this bike...prioities though. grin
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#2226571 - 02/05/14 07:58 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
Dave Ferris --

Just curious, acoustic piano sounds only, how do the two pianos (Nord Piano 2 and the CP-4)compare?

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#2226574 - 02/05/14 08:05 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Dave Ferris]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

That's interesting. I only had an opportunity to play an NP2 briefly, at a store (not even sure whether it was the NP2 or just NP anymore, but think it was the 2), and thought it felt much better than the NS2. But having read that they are supposedly basically the same action, I thought maybe it had to do with the playing angle or something (it was wall-mounted and angled down). So it's good to see some other confirmation that the NP2 action actually does feel different/better.

I actually briefly considered buying one, despite the fact that it's heavier than what I like to travel with (even though lighter than most of its competitors). The deal killer for me was that I couldn't set its two sounds to two different MIDI channels. I wanted to play just piano from the internal action, while triggering one of its other sounds from an external board. Without that functionality, it wasn't nearly as appealing to me.

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#2226587 - 02/05/14 08:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Dave Ferris]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 926
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

CP4 definitely plays and sounds better then the ES7.


I own the ES7 and played CP4 many times. I was ready to buy the CP4 for gigs. ES7 sounds so much better and virtual technician is amazing. However, CP4 sounds great and action is fantastic, but ES7 just sounds tremendous. I wish I had the functionality of the CP4 with the ES7 sound. Please Kawai, release MP7 or MP11 soon!
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2226590 - 02/05/14 08:38 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: btcomm]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1733
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: btcomm
Dave Ferris --

Just curious, acoustic piano sounds only, how do the two pianos (Nord Piano 2 and the CP-4)compare?


Hi btcomm. I haven't had them side by side to do an A/B comparison but I will say the thing that immediately stuck out for me and was very obvious, was the way the CP4 , like the CP5, is perfectly even up & down in all registers for single note jazz lines/soloing.

The XL Fazioli, that I exclusively use for jazz is quite excellent as far as detail, especially when chording. But while it's more consistent then any of the other Nord samples, it still thins out in the upper registers. It literally drives me mad when in the middle of a solo it doesn't have the same impact, or runs out of gas, as another group of notes, say an octave down. It really does affect how and what I play...mostly for the negative. I know I sound like a broken record on this but it really an issue that I hope Nord addresses in the future...and I think they will.

All the lame action and uneven samples issues aside--the Nord Piano 2, with improved D/A converters from the original NP88, is still really a great gigging board for jazz and all styles really. I know I've bitched and moaned ad nauseam about it but I wouldn't have held onto it , for going on 2 years this June, if it wasn't doing a great job on gigs.

I will at some point later this year, after the big $$$$ hit from the bike wears off, no doubt get a CP4. But could very well see myself holding onto the Nord.

To really give an honest opinion on the detail and overall quality of the two though-- I'd have to have them both side by side going through my fairly high end system---JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre and RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers.

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

That's interesting. I only had an opportunity to play an NP2 briefly, at a store (not even sure whether it was the NP2 or just NP anymore, but think it was the 2), and thought it felt much better than the NS2. But having read that they are supposedly basically the same action, I thought maybe it had to do with the playing angle or something (it was wall-mounted and angled down). So it's good to see some other confirmation that the NP2 action actually does feel different/better.

I actually briefly considered buying one, despite the fact that it's heavier than what I like to travel with (even though lighter than most of its competitors). The deal killer for me was that I couldn't set its two sounds to two different MIDI channels. I wanted to play just piano from the internal action, while triggering one of its other sounds from an external board. Without that functionality, it wasn't nearly as appealing to me.


No you weren't imagining things...the NP2 or NP88 is definitely better playing then the Stage. They might list them has the same actions but there has to have been some tweaking going on there. I think people coming from acoustic pianos are more sensitive to this then rock keyboard types. Who are Nord's main market anyway....not guys like me. wink

Yeah, like I said, in its case the darn thing isn't light like a Casio or something, but I do appreciate the solid build on it. Yes my needs are very simple and don't involve anything MIDI, but I think after all this time and reading a baziliion of my posts, that all goes without saying. grin
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

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#2226643 - 02/05/14 10:25 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
Thanks, Dave.

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#2227342 - 02/07/14 08:05 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
Rainman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/17/13
Posts: 1
Dave Ferris: you said "the Nord Piano 2, with improved D/A converters from the original NP88". Can you elaborate on that? This is the first time I hear/read about that. I thought the sound is 100% the same.

How did you percieve the difference between the sound of the two NPs? And where did you find that info?

Thanks for any info!

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#2227360 - 02/07/14 09:07 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
tm3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 409
Loc: North Carolina
Dave Ferris: I saw a detailed post of yours on another forum re comparisons. Two questions

1) which stage DP keyboard comes closest to emulating that of an AP?

2) would your top choices for a home (non-gigging) DP be the avant grand and the CP4?

Thanks

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#2227495 - 02/07/14 02:51 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: tm3]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: tm3
which stage DP keyboard comes closest to emulating that of an AP?

In part, that depends on which AP you are comparing it to. The Kawai MP10 feels more like a Kawai grand than any other board I've played (VPC1 should be about the same). But it feels nothing like a Yamaha grand. APs themselves vary so much. I think the goal should simply be to find the action that you most enjoy playing.

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#2227823 - 02/08/14 08:35 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
BarryDMD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 13
Loc: Warwick, RI
I am considering buying either the S90XS or the CP4 Stage Piano. I especially like the

71Rd I and 73 Rd II voices in the CP4. Is there any way to duplicate them on the S70XS ? Obviously the AP's on the CP4 are very good, but there is more
to play around with on the S90 such as Arp's and Performances.

barrydmd

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#2228980 - 02/10/14 12:24 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
tm3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 409
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: tm3
which stage DP keyboard comes closest to emulating that of an AP?

In part, that depends on which AP you are comparing it to. The Kawai MP10 feels more like a Kawai grand than any other board I've played (VPC1 should be about the same). But it feels nothing like a Yamaha grand. APs themselves vary so much. I think the goal should simply be to find the action that you most enjoy playing.


good point, thanks. someday i hope to transition to an AP, and am probably overly concerned about recurring claims that playing a DP "ruins" ones technique as far as playing an AP thus my interest in "close emulation." i also thought that the technology may have advanced significantly beyond my Roland FP4.

auditions are great but given the local selection unfortunately not really possible.

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#2229122 - 02/10/14 05:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: tm3]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: tm3
i also thought that the technology may have advanced significantly beyond my Roland FP4.

Interestingly, a number of people seem to prefer the feel of the FP4 over the later versions (FP-4F and FP50).

Do you specifically want something with speakers built in, or doesn't it matter?

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#2229269 - 02/10/14 10:18 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
tm3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 409
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: tm3
i also thought that the technology may have advanced significantly beyond my Roland FP4.

Interestingly, a number of people seem to prefer the feel of the FP4 over the later versions (FP-4F and FP50).

Do you specifically want something with speakers built in, or doesn't it matter?


Does not matter, really. If I become convinced of a significant upgrade over the FP4 I could pull the trigger. For now headphones are fine.

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#2229330 - 02/11/14 12:40 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Well, these have different feels from each other, but I think they are all closer to, well SOME acoustic than the FP4 would be. So I would check out: Roland FP80, Kawai MP10, Yamaha CP4. (Only the Roland has speakers.) I think those would be considered current state of the art in stage piano actions, though the MP10 at 70 lbs is a bit of a beast to move around. The Yamaha is not much heavier than your FP4. The FP80 is in between.

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#2229464 - 02/11/14 09:22 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]
tm3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 409
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Well, these have different feels from each other, but I think they are all closer to, well SOME acoustic than the FP4 would be. So I would check out: Roland FP80, Kawai MP10, Yamaha CP4. (Only the Roland has speakers.) I think those would be considered current state of the art in stage piano actions, though the MP10 at 70 lbs is a bit of a beast to move around. The Yamaha is not much heavier than your FP4. The FP80 is in between.


That is very helpful, thanks. Weight is not an issue.

You would not put the Roland 800 on the list?

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#2229494 - 02/11/14 10:27 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: tm3]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3449
Originally Posted By: tm3
You would not put the Roland 800 on the list?

Another good choice. I haven't played one yet, but it is supposed to have essentially an enhanced version of the action that is on the FP80.

Also, there are some people who prefer the feel of the Yamaha CP4's predecessors over the CP4 itself, those models would be the CP1 and CP5, which you may find at reduced pricing if places still have them.

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#2255619 - 04/01/14 08:36 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rainman]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1733
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Dave Ferris: you said "the Nord Piano 2, with improved D/A converters from the original NP88". Can you elaborate on that? This is the first time I hear/read about that. I thought the sound is 100% the same.

How did you percieve the difference between the sound of the two NPs? And where did you find that info?

Thanks for any info!


Ah... I'm one never to try and leave a direct question unanswered., if I can answer it. wink I was scanning this thread and noticed I had.

I don't always have time to check in at PW and return to threads I've posted in. I was looking for some more CP4 video youtube demos on Google and this came up.

Perfectly legit question. Two years ago in May of '12 I took delivery of the NP2. At the time I had not sold my NP88 yet so I had the advantage of A/B ing them through the same speakers (RCF TT08As) in my studio.

THe difference in the overall sound was immediately obvious. The NP88 sounded like it had a blanket over the speakers in comparison to the NP2. This was before the Fazioli sample was released, so I was most likely using the Yamaha Bright Grand and Bosendorfer , both in XL size, to test with.

The NP2's sound sparkled and was more vibrant on every sound I tried on the APs & EPs.

On a gig, in a noisy environment, playing in a louder rockish context, through less then at least half way decent quality speakers and out front in the audience - I'd be certain you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference between the two though.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

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#2255846 - 04/02/14 09:31 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1758
Anyone care to explain what Nord says about the Triple Pedal for the NP2, quoted below the dotted line?
Dynamic Sustain Pedal seems to be related to pedal noise as you actuate the pedal, but:
What exactly is half-pedaling? merely 3 points (on, off, mid)? Or is it partial-pedaling with more points?
What is release and catch techniques? Is that merely a fancy name for conventional pedaling or is there more to it?
-------------------------------------------------
The Nord Triple Pedal
Has Soft and Sustenuto Pedals in addition to a unique Dynamic Sustain Pedal enabling the use of half-pedaling and "release and catch" techniques.
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2255863 - 04/02/14 10:44 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1865
Loc: Portugal
Isn't release and catch when, on an acoustic piano, you release your finger but you simultaneously put down the sustain pedal. The damper is thus repositioned but almost immediately pulled back again.

If you do that, the note will be sustained, to varying degrees, depending on the precise interval the damper is allowed to deaden the strings. Digital pianos (apart maybe from old or very low budget ones) will copy this behaviour.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2256052 - 04/02/14 05:06 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: toddy]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1758
I don't really know what to think about Nord's sparse words, toddy, there isn't anymore info on the Nord website that I could find. Hoping for an actual user of the Nord Triple Pedal to chime in...

Or, if there is a user of the Nord Piano 2 HP (the 73 key unit, with the default single pedal) on here, what are they missing out on with regard to pedalling? From what I could gather from the Nord website, apart from the obvious difference (soft and sostenuto) they would miss out on pedal noise (big deal, to be sarcastic) not sure about the other features...
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2256061 - 04/02/14 05:30 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1865
Loc: Portugal
Well, if I'm right (and I'm just guessing from the term itself that you quoted: "release and catch") then this is only an effect with the sustain pedal and the keys. In other words, it should work with just the one sustain pedal, and is dependent on your playing style and pedalling technique.

Certainly it works like that on my piano, and I imagine, most other DPs these days. The other two/three pedals would be irrelevant to this effect.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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