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#2186031 - 11/21/13 12:25 AM Bach and Mozetich
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Hi gang

here's two selections I recently recorded.. Bach prelude and fugue in c#- and Mozetich "Prelude":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OrXSVFnXQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqY7KFa1pu8
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2186158 - 11/21/13 08:09 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3874
Loc: Rockford, IL
Exquisite. Sublime. Awe-inspiring.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2186326 - 11/21/13 01:03 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
sorry, i was hoping to edit those but it won't let me.. here is an easier way:





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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2186350 - 11/21/13 01:34 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2465
Bravossimo!!

You have such a high skill of analyzing, absorbing and then conveying music that, it is always a refreshing and unique experience to listen to your performances.

I really enjoyed listening, thanks for sharing.
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Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

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#2186371 - 11/21/13 02:04 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Thank you! The Mozetich was a very interesting experience for me. I had one coaching on it with someone (not my teacher), and recorded it after studying it for two weeks. Still a long way to go, but it was a very good experience for me.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2186529 - 11/21/13 07:33 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17940
Loc: Victoria, BC
It's playing like this that separates the real pianists from so many of the rest of us who just try to play the piano!

Wonderful!

Thank you.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2186541 - 11/21/13 08:02 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 830
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
What Bruce said.

I really enjoyed your Bach. Obviously you are not just playing the notes but have a great sense of the whole architecture.

Brilliant! Post more Bach!
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Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2186547 - 11/21/13 08:14 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5295
Loc: Philadelphia
I love listening to you play. Your dynamic control in the Mozetich was exquisite. If I could make one suggestion, it would be to play more. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2186570 - 11/21/13 09:07 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Excellent!!! You continue to improve every single time I hear you.
Your Bach has come a long way, since I last heard you play it. I think the prelude is very, very good and there is little I'd do to change it. With the fugue (the greatest of the 48) I would take a broader tempo and work on creating one, long continuous line in the last section which is full of drama. I'll talk to you about it and give you details. I wish you would play more Bach!

The Mozetich, I must admit, I'm not familiar with, but you make me want to investigate. I love the piece. Beautiful color in your playing here.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2186685 - 11/22/13 02:55 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
FarmGirl Online   content

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1959
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Pogo - you are awesome. That was the best Bach I ever heard. I don't know how to say this but it's totally beyond textbook. Not just independence of voices, I hear real intimate conversation is going on between them and among them. They relate to each other. And what an effective use of pedal. It was so clean and resonant at the same time. I know I'm not good enough to comment but could not help it. It moved me.

Loved the other piece too. I have never heard of the composer. I have to google it. Thank you for sharing the performance. I wish you come to Arizona!
_________________________
Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2187120 - 11/22/13 11:49 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
You are all too kind.. thank you for listening and for your comments! It really means a lot to me that someone takes the time to listen..
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2187469 - 11/23/13 06:34 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Louis Podesta Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 703
I have listened to this Bach recording many times, and I still come away with the same impression. And, that impression has to do with my familiarity with the music of other composers.

My philosophy is that J.S. Bach should sound like J.S. Bach. His son J.C. Bach has a totally different sound, as did his brother Emmanuel.

So, Claude Debussy, as well as his contemporary Ravel, used to go nuts when pianists would try to "romanticize" their music. And, I am a pianist/philosopher whose entire life, at the piano, has been and is a spiritual experience.

This recording ain't it.

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.

Parenthetically, I do not pedal Bach or Mozart because with the proper type of legato I do not find it to be necessary.


Edited by Ken Knapp (11/24/13 07:14 AM)
Edit Reason: Removed school reference.

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#2187477 - 11/23/13 06:43 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Louis Podesta]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
I have listened to this Bach recording many times, and I still come away with the same impression. And, that impression has to do with my familiarity with the music of other composers.

My philosophy is that J.S. Bach should sound like J.S. Bach. His son J.C. Bach has a totally different sound, as did his brother Emmanuel.

So, Claude Debussy, as well as his contemporary Ravel, used to go nuts when pianists would try to "romanticize" their music. And, I am a pianist/philosopher whose entire life, at the piano, has been and is a spiritual experience.

This recording ain't it. It is someone, who is currently, or formerly attended The Glenn Gould School, trying to sound like Andras Schiff.

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.

Parenthetically, I do not pedal Bach or Mozart because with the proper type of legato I do not find it to be necessary.
Would you like to explain to Angelina "what is Bach" in your opinion, WITHOUT posting any videos, or mentioning the name of none other but yourself?

You see your claims are as valid as your playing is right now: None existent! Where's YOUR personality, YOUR opinion and YOUR performance to speak for YOU?

Don't you realize that what you've just told Angelina is that she's not playing a work by a composer who's been dead for 270 years, as she should be. Like the score can transfer enough information about that precise feeling that Bach is. As if Bach had the same instruments and the same mindset that Angelina and any performer today has. It's as if the Internet doesn't exist, mobile phones don't exist, TV doesn't exist and we can go back to the pure mindset that Bach might've had when composing and performing his works.
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#2187493 - 11/23/13 07:08 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Louis Podesta]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.


Actually Angelina's playing in general is infinitely more competent than my own - and I believe she has a wonderful career ahead of her. smile
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2187516 - 11/23/13 08:01 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Two things: 1. I played this for P. Lewis recently, and we talked about pedal in Bach - after saying he liked my pedal very much, he agreed that we use pedal in Bach not for legato, but for sound. Did I blur anything? In that case, I failed. But I dont think I did... smile

2. I'm curious to see why this is considered romantic playing? I didnt screw around with the rhythm, or add exsessive rubatos? I just tried to shape things. Maybe I didnt do a good enough job, after all I'm not a great scholar like yourself. Maybe it isnt dry and midi-like, as many other interpretations, but that is how I view the music and I'm not going to apologize for it.

But thank you for... listening.



Edited by Pogorelich. (11/23/13 08:22 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2187520 - 11/23/13 08:12 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Nikolas]
Louis Podesta Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 703
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
I have listened to this Bach recording many times, and I still come away with the same impression. And, that impression has to do with my familiarity with the music of other composers.

My philosophy is that J.S. Bach should sound like J.S. Bach. His son J.C. Bach has a totally different sound, as did his brother Emmanuel.

So, Claude Debussy, as well as his contemporary Ravel, used to go nuts when pianists would try to "romanticize" their music. And, I am a pianist/philosopher whose entire life, at the piano, has been and is a spiritual experience.

This recording ain't it. It is someone, who is currently, or formerly attended The Glenn Gould School, trying to sound like Andras Schiff.

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.

Parenthetically, I do not pedal Bach or Mozart because with the proper type of legato I do not find it to be necessary.
Would you like to explain to Angelina "what is Bach" in your opinion, WITHOUT posting any videos, or mentioning the name of none other but yourself?

You see your claims are as valid as your playing is right now: None existent! Where's YOUR personality, YOUR opinion and YOUR performance to speak for YOU?

Don't you realize that what you've just told Angelina is that she's not playing a work by a composer who's been dead for 270 years, as she should be. Like the score can transfer enough information about that precise feeling that Bach is. As if Bach had the same instruments and the same mindset that Angelina and any performer today has. It's as if the Internet doesn't exist, mobile phones don't exist, TV doesn't exist and we can go back to the pure mindset that Bach might've had when composing and performing his works.


Once again, her name is not Angelina, and I will post her true website link at the end of this discourse.

Secondly, Phil and I have lived in the world of Donald Willing, who, not only encouraged his students to think "outside the box," in regards the music of the Baroque Period, he mandated it!

This is not Bach!

Please read the tea leaves for yourselves. It goes against everything I said about Donald Wiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OrXSVFnXQ

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#2187523 - 11/23/13 08:18 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Once again, my aim is not to please everyone as that is impossible. So I'm fine with what you say. I just dont agree and I will not play another way.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2187527 - 11/23/13 08:29 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Bach himself would be delighted to hear his music so wonderfully played in the cantabile style that he advocated. Bravo, fair lady!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2187540 - 11/23/13 08:55 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Louis Podesta]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
I have listened to this Bach recording many times, and I still come away with the same impression. And, that impression has to do with my familiarity with the music of other composers.

My philosophy is that J.S. Bach should sound like J.S. Bach. His son J.C. Bach has a totally different sound, as did his brother Emmanuel.

So, Claude Debussy, as well as his contemporary Ravel, used to go nuts when pianists would try to "romanticize" their music. And, I am a pianist/philosopher whose entire life, at the piano, has been and is a spiritual experience.

This recording ain't it. It is someone, who is currently, or formerly attended The Glenn Gould School, trying to sound like Andras Schiff.

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.

Parenthetically, I do not pedal Bach or Mozart because with the proper type of legato I do not find it to be necessary.
Would you like to explain to Angelina "what is Bach" in your opinion, WITHOUT posting any videos, or mentioning the name of none other but yourself?

You see your claims are as valid as your playing is right now: None existent! Where's YOUR personality, YOUR opinion and YOUR performance to speak for YOU?

Don't you realize that what you've just told Angelina is that she's not playing a work by a composer who's been dead for 270 years, as she should be. Like the score can transfer enough information about that precise feeling that Bach is. As if Bach had the same instruments and the same mindset that Angelina and any performer today has. It's as if the Internet doesn't exist, mobile phones don't exist, TV doesn't exist and we can go back to the pure mindset that Bach might've had when composing and performing his works.


Once again, her name is not Angelina, and I will post her true website link at the end of this discourse.

Secondly, Phil and I have lived in the world of Donald Willing, who, not only encouraged his students to think "outside the box," in regards the music of the Baroque Period, he mandated it!

This is not Bach!

Please read the tea leaves for yourselves. It goes against everything I said about Donald Wiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OrXSVFnXQ




Who cares, if her name is Angelina, or not? What's your point? You should change YOUR name after making such an idiot out of yourself on this forum.

This IS Bach, but you wouldn't realise that, because your head is stuck too far up your assumption that you, and only you, are aware of the "correct" way to play anything.

I'd like to add that I, moments ago, deleted another post directed your way that may very well have gotten me permanently banned. It is very difficult for me to hold my tongue at times and with you even more so.


Edited by stores (11/23/13 09:10 PM)

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#2187547 - 11/23/13 09:22 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Pogo,

I really enjoyed both recordings very much! I'm actually listening to other Mozetich pieces now and I'm really enjoying his works. Is the prelude very difficult? I might want to take a look later, because it sounds very good.

The Bach is of course, very musical and incredible. I wish I could play like that.

Your playing remains very inspirational...I love how you take care of the inner lines and small details while retaining the long line and the underlying drama. One day I hope to play just as well as you!
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#2187577 - 11/24/13 12:31 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Louis Podesta]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
I have listened to this Bach recording many times, and I still come away with the same impression. And, that impression has to do with my familiarity with the music of other composers.

My philosophy is that J.S. Bach should sound like J.S. Bach. His son J.C. Bach has a totally different sound, as did his brother Emmanuel.

So, Claude Debussy, as well as his contemporary Ravel, used to go nuts when pianists would try to "romanticize" their music. And, I am a pianist/philosopher whose entire life, at the piano, has been and is a spiritual experience.

This recording ain't it. It is someone, who is currently, or formerly attended The Glenn Gould School, trying to sound like Andras Schiff.

Paraphrasing what I said to Carey recently, it is very precise and beautiful playing, but it ain't J.S. Bach, in my opinion.

Parenthetically, I do not pedal Bach or Mozart because with the proper type of legato I do not find it to be necessary.
Would you like to explain to Angelina "what is Bach" in your opinion, WITHOUT posting any videos, or mentioning the name of none other but yourself?

You see your claims are as valid as your playing is right now: None existent! Where's YOUR personality, YOUR opinion and YOUR performance to speak for YOU?

Don't you realize that what you've just told Angelina is that she's not playing a work by a composer who's been dead for 270 years, as she should be. Like the score can transfer enough information about that precise feeling that Bach is. As if Bach had the same instruments and the same mindset that Angelina and any performer today has. It's as if the Internet doesn't exist, mobile phones don't exist, TV doesn't exist and we can go back to the pure mindset that Bach might've had when composing and performing his works.


Once again, her name is not Angelina, and I will post her true website link at the end of this discourse.
Hem... who cares? I know her name but in internet forums everyone goes by their nickname, rather than their full name. Some of us chose to have our real names on, others didn't. BIG deal!

Quote:
Secondly, Phil and I have lived in the world of Donald Willing, who, not only encouraged his students to think "outside the box," in regards the music of the Baroque Period, he mandated it!
Oooohhhh goody! you know yet more people! How fascinating!

Quote:
This is not Bach!
Apart from "says who" (because you're voicing someone else's words, rather than your own if you want to talk about it), the whole part about what is Bach went unanswered by you! Bravo!

Quote:
Please read the tea leaves for yourselves. It goes against everything I said about Donald Wiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OrXSVFnXQ
Hmmm...

Oh well,

Enough polluting of this thread I think!

Angelina,

I really enjoyed your Bach. It has absolutely nothing that I did not enjoy. It was how I was taught Bach and how I enjoy listening to it. I didn't mind one bit the pedal and it's a choice that I also made in my own exams years ago. There's a very strict control of tone and the tempo remains rather rigid throughout.

AS you may know from these forums, I'm probably an advocate for freedom of thought on performances. The "This is not Bach" comment makes me angry exactly for that. Bach's been dead for so long...

Your Mozetich was right to the point *I Think*, but I have very limited knowledge of his works thus I'll limit my comments to the impression your performance made to me.

But I'd like to comment, if you want, to the choice of work. And this is as personal as it can get. I found the Mozetich prelude a bit... uninspiring. I don't know if it's a well known one, or something else, but I felt that you were given limited chances to do something much more interesting... :-/
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http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2187596 - 11/24/13 03:48 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5295
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
AS you may know from these forums, I'm probably an advocate for freedom of thought on performances. The "This is not Bach" comment makes me angry exactly for that. Bach's been dead for so long...

I'm similarly minded, and since I've always wondered this, now might be the best time to ask -- what will you do in 200 years when someone says, "This is not Nikolas!"
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2187611 - 11/24/13 06:08 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2465
My only complaint about the Bach P&F would not be about Pogo's wonderful interpretation but about the piano itself.

It is probably not tuned in "Well Temperament".
Therefore, not producing a choral like sound Bach would have probably thought of.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2187618 - 11/24/13 07:12 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2213
Loc: Pennsylvania
Wow. Pogo, all I can say is wow! They are both wonderful.

While one post above criticizes because "it ain't it", I say nonsense. Some people read music with their eyes. Others read music with their hearts. What I hear seems to come from your heart. If we simply "type it out", we would only need one recording.

BRAVO!

_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
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http://www.mitatechs.org
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#2187641 - 11/24/13 08:45 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Derulux]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
AS you may know from these forums, I'm probably an advocate for freedom of thought on performances. The "This is not Bach" comment makes me angry exactly for that. Bach's been dead for so long...

I'm similarly minded, and since I've always wondered this, now might be the best time to ask -- what will you do in 200 years when someone says, "This is not Nikolas!"
I'll probably teleport to his place and tell him: "Louis! This IS Nikolas. Get off my lawn"... or something along those lines... grin
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2187687 - 11/24/13 11:11 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2415
Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Absolutely gorgeous, Pogo. Both performances were a delight to listen to. Very inspiring!
_________________________
Carl


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#2187689 - 11/24/13 11:21 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
wower Online   blank
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 242
Loc: Calgary
Thanks for posting this Pogo. Ignore the buzz kill LP. Your performance was excellent and you also introduced me to the music of Mozetich.
_________________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!

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#2187821 - 11/24/13 04:57 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Very nice, Pogorelich. Well thought out, played with feeling and pudeur as they say in French, hard to translate, modesty perhaps. Thanks!

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#2188040 - 11/25/13 11:41 AM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
I listened to this last Thursday for the first time at work, and quite a few times since.

If the purpose of performance is to touch someone and transport them to a different, dare I say 'spiritual' place, then you've succeeded. That day it was an oasis in a difficult day filled with difficult people.

The music is so beautiful, and I've shared your recording with many at this point.

thank you for sharing this.

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2188845 - 11/26/13 06:18 PM Re: Bach and Mozetich [Re: Pogorelich.]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
As usual Pogo, like everyone else has already said, your performance is astounding. I love how you bring out the voices in the Bach - the way I'd like to play it if I had the ability. I haven't listened to the other one yet, but I will do someday soon.

The real question here is when are we gonna get the Beethoven 111??
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All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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