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#2185951 - 11/20/13 09:27 PM Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4vh25jOiaI&feature=youtu.be My question is: when did you stop listening and why? In essence, I listened and thought "I can't pinpoint anything strikingly wrong with it, but it's definitely missing something"...so, even though I so recently put something else here, um, I hoped one of you might be able to give me your opinions on what's wrong with it. It develops *so* slowly, I recognise, but there are plenty of pieces that are really slow to unfold but are still great...um...I mean, could it be sheer pianism that's required? I don't know...hence laugh So...yes, even though there are a couple of nice moments, I find this quite significantly insubstantial (more so than normal wink ) and if any of you have the time to spare I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts you can impart that might elucidate why that is...so...thank you! I hope you are all well and happy as you read this, of course smile
FSO
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2185957 - 11/20/13 09:41 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4vh25jOiaI&feature=youtu.be My question is: when did you stop listening and why?

Around 1:10, because nothing much was happening...
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Polyphonist

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#2185965 - 11/20/13 09:48 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: Polyphonist]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18223
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4vh25jOiaI&feature=youtu.be My question is: when did you stop listening and why?

Around 1:10, because nothing much was happening...


You lasted twice as long as I did!

Regards,
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2185966 - 11/20/13 09:49 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: BruceD]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4vh25jOiaI&feature=youtu.be My question is: when did you stop listening and why?

Around 1:10, because nothing much was happening...


You lasted twice as long as I did!

Regards,

I tried to give it more of a chance than I normally would, but no cigar.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2186013 - 11/20/13 11:40 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: FSO]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Massachusetts
I think the issue is that there is a main idea that you are continuing to repeat without any real development. As you say it does develop slowly but there are not any real instances that I feel the character changes at all. The closest thing to this happened around 12:45 but I think it only lasted for 10 seconds or so and then you went back to the same place.

It's hard for me to describe because my musical language is limited but the sense I get is that the piece starts in one place and doesn't manage to escape that place even though there is much effort.

I confess that I did not listen with total focus and cannot answer your question as to the points where I tuned out and back in. Ok wait, here I am now at 22:20 and I sense that I am being taken somewhere else. Do you see what I mean? This section, with the main theme returning around 24:40 is definitely promising.

I know it's an improvisation and I'm not trying to say that it should have more form, but if you are going to have this kind of length I think you might want to find a way for it to be less repetitive. Oh, another thing you might want to consider is creating more space by utilizing more rests. Most people have difficulty in silent moments in life but they are absolutely essential to add more depth.

Have you listened to any Keith Jarrett? I haven't heard much to be honest but I have a CD of the Koln concert and I think it might provide you with some good examples. The concert is split into two sections. I think each section has 2-4 'subjects' which are explored. You might find something interesting in this improvised solo performance.

By the way I listened to your two pieces 'On being late' and I really enjoyed them. It might be that I identify with this feeling quite a bit!

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#2186730 - 11/22/13 06:33 AM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Polyphonist, BruceD, thank you for the attempt and candid answers....it's good to know. Pathbreaker...thank you for...well, sticking through the tedium and for the thoughtful response...silence. You're right about needing more silence; it's the note I most overlook smile Um...so; less repetitive...character change...it's wonderful having a critique such as yours; half of my thinking-box whinges: "but that's the point, I was trying to do this..." and the other half can say "well, "this" clearly doesn't work then, so stop complaining and complete this metaphor"...um...I've heard of Keith Jarrett...but I've never listened to any...I think I shall, thank you for the suggestion laugh Thank you very much for the insights...and the compliment too, of course ^_^
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2189328 - 11/27/13 05:48 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: FSO]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
a tad unrelenting but very nice. i'd pretty much echo what pathbreaker said. except that i don't like Keith Jarret's music.
There were lots of really nice parts in it, but i find with improvs like this it's a sort of "have to be there at the time to get the full whack" sort of thing.

EDIT:
I should have really waited til the end before i commented. Just wanted to add that i thought that the final few minutes were really good! very dramatic and expressive! in fact i even played that part again after it had finished.


Edited by TheHappyMoron (11/27/13 06:07 PM)
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All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#2189448 - 11/27/13 11:26 PM Re: Improvisation (BWV 934) and Query [Re: FSO]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13811
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I lasted about 15 seconds. There was a point very early on where the phrase structure fell apart. It starts out sounding like it's in 3/4, then suddenly the chord progression implied by the bass and soprano lines have a 4/4 feel, and I lose sight of where it's headed. It may be because I'm very familiar with BWV 934 and have certain expectations regarding the overall phrase/harmonic structure. (I don't expect an improvisation to match the structure of the original, but I do expect a structure that retains some of the feel of the original.)
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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