Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards There is a real continuous half pedal on Digital Pianos?

I am researching a lot about digital pianos lately, and one thing surprise me. Many people talk about continuously variable half pedal, with supposably 128 values, from 0 to 127 (MIDI resolution limit). When I read about that, I was assuming there was a digital piano that send complete 1 by 1 resolution about the sustain pedal. Like 0, 1, 2, 3...127. But now that I am having real data about some digital pianos, is clear is far from continuous. Here are a few examples of models:

Casio PX-150 and Casio PX-350: Half pedalling is 3 steps pedal (OFF, HALF, ON)

Yamaha P-105: Half pedalling is 9 steps pedal (0 16 32 30 64 80 96 112 127 values)

Kawai ES100: Half pedalling is 6 steps pedal (0 16 38 64 94 127 values)

Yamaha P-155: Half pedalling is 6 steps pedal (0 24 48 72 100 127 values)

Don't get me wrong. I think 6 or 9 steps is very good. More than that is not that really necessary, except if you want a very realistic pedal damper noise (not that important ether) in a advanced piano sound like Pianoteq. But continuous?

Maybe the reason I don't find a real continuous half pedal is that I am looking for under 1000 US$ DPs. What about very expensive digital pianos?

There is such thing as a digital piano with real 128 steps half pedal?

Not that I think is super necessary having 128 steps. I just want to know if there is such thing. Is more to know if the terminology is correct.

You're not alone in thinking 128 steps are not needed. Pianos have no more than around a half dozen steps. That's all.

Daniel, the best way to research a piano or keyboard is to play it and not compare numbers per se.

Numbers can't explain how a keyboard's action feels or explain the interaction between the keyboard action and your perception of how it responds.

Well, the Yamaha DGX 630 640 and 650 support continuous pedalling, I think. But my experience is that it makes no difference to the on/off one; however, the pedalboard makes it look a whole lot better and was worth the £60 or so I paid for it on that basis. . .

And I`ve used the middle pedal once in anger on a piece of music. Everybody got to know about this achievement, too. It may never happen again!!

Pete, do you even play piano?

May I ask where you saw this information?

Kind regards,
James
x

I buy a Kawai ES100 recently and i test it connected to my computer.

The rest of models are by other testing their pianos.

Don't forget that the continuous numbers that you might see on the midi stream doesn't mean that the DP is using them that fine grained. (Just sayin')

My CA65 has a 26-step pedal. Yamaha YDP-161 had a 9-step pedal . (guessing from the Pianoteq Midi-events window)

I would not want a piano with the full 128-step midi pedal.
Sending one MIDI message through the MIDI cable takes ~1ms (I don't know how it is with MIDI over USB, perhaps it might be better?). So, unless the electronics inside the piano used an advanced algorithm for queueing the pedal events, pressing the pedal could create serious traffic jams.

Another possible problem could be on the other side, I'd be afraid that having to handle so many interrupts could impair the low-latency capabilities of my computer.

On top of that, I'm not sure about contemporary VSTs (Galaxy, Ivory, ..., let's ignore Pianoteq for a moment), how many halfsteps they can sense. Is it only 1 halfstep or is it more? If it was only 1 halfstep, then 3-step pedals inside Casios already uses their full capabilities.

Really good response. I agree. Having too much steps in the pedal would be very problematic, and don't actually gain anything.

So 26 steps? That looks like a "limit". More than that would cause those problem you mention. So from now on i will consider continuous 26 steps. 9 steps is acceptable though. 3 steps lame but works for most.

Thanks for your response.

PtJaa said: Sending one MIDI message through the MIDI cable takes ~1ms ...... So, unless the electronics inside the piano used an advanced algorithm for queuing the pedal events, pressing the pedal could create serious traffic jams.


What a good point! Having a hi resolution sustain pedal could really throw a spanner in the works - especially for those people who claim to be bothered about latency (ie time delays) of as short as 20ms or so.

You can have 128 steps without sending every individual step. You can send an update every 100ms with 7-bit resolution.

.....ah yes.....another very good point! I hadn't thought of that possibility.

`Fraid not, ole lad, A digital, yes. I have fun on that; some may not call it "playing"; I make up my own rules . . . .

How many steps does the F-30 pedal of the VPC1 have?

26 steps.

So it would be fair to say that any advice you give on the finer points of piano technology, including partial pedalling, should be taken with a Gibraltar sized rock of salt?

You can't appreciate what you don't hear or use.

You got it in one! But the finer points are often peripherally unnecessary except to boost sales . . .they`re lost in the recording process; they`re lost in the quest for musical (personal) excellence, they`re lost on any uninformed listener . . .more stuff to break down!

But I do find it interesting . . .

Peter, I hope this is not a rude question, but are you peterws7?

I agree, MIDI barely handles key events well due to the low baud rate and protocols employed. I'm kind of shocked that pitch bend works OK.


Yes, a pedal could use all 128 levels if it were updated periodically rather than every time there is a change. Pedal stuff is problematic because you need to sample the position at a fairly high rate in order to calculate velocity (to tell how hard to slap the dampers back down onto the strings). 100ms might not be often enough to do this. And you would need to get everyone on board to support this method which is unlikely with manufacturers all doing their own thing.

MIDI helped precipitate a huge explosion in synthesis, it could really use an update (higher bandwidth, better support for non-discretely pitched instruments like the trombone, more detailed stimulus, etc.).