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#2225010 - 02/03/14 05:54 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
You know, there should be no problems with any of this stuff. Quality assurance should detect this before it ever gets into manufacture. Are they becoming so complex now, that management can`t keep up? Wouldn`t have expected it from the Japs after all their experience. . . .not even the Chinese these days; they turn out cracking electric kettles for a fiver . . . .
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#2225015 - 02/03/14 06:27 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
[the Chinese] turn out cracking electric kettles for a fiver

I bought a German electric kettle for about 15 (form Lidl, no less). You'd expect that to go on and on, wouldn't you? But no. It leaks.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

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Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
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#2225027 - 02/03/14 07:22 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10774
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: peterws
Wouldn`t have expected it from the Japs...


Respectfully Peter, I believe 'Japanese' would be a preferable term.

Regarding the general theme of your comment, I don't believe the country in which a product is manufactured should have any bearing on its quality. A single clicking key can occur on any instrument, from any brand, manufactured in any country.

Kind regards,
James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#2225028 - 02/03/14 07:37 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Kawai James]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
Ha ha! Glad you appreciate my economic writing style . . grin
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#2225061 - 02/03/14 08:48 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Kawai James]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12974
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: peterws
Wouldn`t have expected it from the Japs...


Respectfully Peter, I believe 'Japanese' would be a preferable term.

Regarding the general theme of your comment, I don't believe the country in which a product is manufactured should have any bearing on its quality. A single clicking key can occur on any instrument, from any brand, manufactured in any country.

Kind regards,
James
x

It could also have occurred during shipping, too, which is not the fault of the manufacturer.

I think 'Japs' has a somewhat derogatory meaning here in the US in previous generations, so perhaps the abbreviation is an unfortunate shortcut.
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#2225072 - 02/03/14 09:06 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Morodiene]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Morodiene

I think 'Japs' has a somewhat derogatory meaning here in the US in previous generations, so perhaps the abbreviation is an unfortunate shortcut.


Yes - a word best avoided. It's a curious fact that abbreviations, in themselves, somehow become 'offensive': 'Iti' & 'Brit' are apparently 'offensive' to some people though I can't for the life of me see why. 'Scots' on the other hand is less offensive than 'Scottish'. A minefield!

....people take offense at anything these days. Or people take offense on behalf of other people. Outsourcing.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#2225158 - 02/03/14 11:31 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Kawai James]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2637
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: peterws
Wouldn`t have expected it from the Japs...


Regarding the general theme of your comment, I don't believe the country in which a product is manufactured should have any bearing on its quality. A single clicking key can occur on any instrument, from any brand, manufactured in any country.

Kind regards,
James
x

This might be true, or not. In general some manufacturers, and hence their countries, have become associated with quality of some products. German and engineering and some brand of cars, Japan and consumer electronics also some car engines and cars. No doubt others can provide examples, including the reverse case. It's historical fact versus political correctness (which I am not accusing you of).


Edited by spanishbuddha (02/03/14 11:32 AM)

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#2225162 - 02/03/14 11:34 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: toddy]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 578
Loc: Spanish living in UK
Originally Posted By: toddy


....people take offense at anything these days. Or people take offense on behalf of other people. Outsourcing.


That reminds me that in 2005 some silly Bank PRs looking to "improve" social relationships said the biggest stupidity ever here in the UK: he said that in order to avoid "offense" to Muslims, the British should avoid using things connected to pigs, such as piggy banks, figurines and similar. They were to ban piggy banks.

Obviously, some intelligent Muslim people immediately said that there was no problem from their part and that they were part of British Christian culture, so they managed to stop the tensions created in the Christian community.

They did remove the piggy banks from their ads, which I think was disgraceful, but at least they are still around.

...Another case of bad political correctness that would only increase differences and separation...












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#2225197 - 02/03/14 12:20 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: evamar]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: evamar

...Another case of bad political correctness that would only increase differences and separation...


Yep. This is what happens when formality takes over from real feeling. Political correctness is often common courtesy, which is fine. It's mostly pretty harmless, but taken too far, can be infuriating!
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#2225208 - 02/03/14 12:50 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: toddy]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: toddy
Originally Posted By: evamar

...Another case of bad political correctness that would only increase differences and separation...


Yep. This is what happens when formality takes over from real feeling. Political correctness is often common courtesy, which is fine. It's mostly pretty harmless, but taken too far, can be infuriating!


It`s something to come against at every opportunity . . .when you get to my age, it`s mandatory! NEVER submit!!!
_________________________
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#2225221 - 02/03/14 01:21 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: toddy]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4675
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: toddy
Political correctness is often common courtesy, which is fine. It's mostly pretty harmless, but taken too far, can be infuriating!

For reasons I don't understand, in the US anyway, common courtesy seems to be strongly politically polarized. Even when taken too far it's generally harmless. And a bit of courtesy will take you a long way.

My rules of thumb re. ethnic references:
1. Generally avoid any terms used by actors in Hollywood war films.
2. Strongly suspect any terms from previous generations.

A few years ago I stopped using the word "gyp" when I realized it probably referred to Gypsies, and I'm Gypsy neutral. I'll probably have the anti-PC police knocking at my door with a warrant for saying that.
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#2225250 - 02/03/14 02:37 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: dewster]
evamar Offline
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Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 578
Loc: Spanish living in UK
Originally Posted By: dewster
I'm Gypsy neutral.


??? that's a funny one! grin

As a foreigner here I'm a second class citizen, and quite clearly. British people are quite notorious about putting a label within 2 seconds of listening to somebody speaking and foreigners from a non English speaking country will always have to prove themselves here. Not a gypsy myself, but for many "natives" not a lot of a difference. People are very classicist here, still a lot of lower/middle/high class syndrome (and also those same 3 levels inside each level!). I guess they hate that because of my accent they cannot give me a social label so easily laugh

Really, I'm the first one saying that the foreigners living abroad are the ones to adapt to the host country, not the other way. But of course I can say that without being called a racist precisely because I am a foreigner! What an irony! grin

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#2225284 - 02/03/14 04:13 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
chickenlump Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Canada
peter,
I don't understand how the caution against the use of the term 'jap' has turned into a tirade against political correctness.

Now I'm sympathetic to the issue of political over-correctness, but this word has a clear historical and etymological reason why many people consider it derogatory. Instead of modifying your usage, stating that you will "stand your ground" against political correctness is a very arrogant point of view. This word has been considered improper for quite some time, it's not the fault of being 'politically correct' that you were not informed about it's connotations.


Edited by chickenlump (02/03/14 04:14 PM)
_________________________
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#2225285 - 02/03/14 04:16 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 816
Loc: New England, USA
Besides, the piano is manufactured in Indonesia, not Japan.
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#2225308 - 02/03/14 05:35 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
Morty Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Norway
I'm about a month from receiving my CS10 (hopefully). All these problems with the CA95's keyboard action are making me concerned. If I get a problem with my piano, I probably have to ship the piano to the nearest piano technician, about 200 km. The same will probably be true for any DP. From following this thread, one can get the impression that the reliability of either Yamaha or Roland is somewhat better than Kawais? So, should I cancel my order for the CS10, and go one of Roland LX15 or Yamaha NU1?


Edited by Morty (02/03/14 06:45 PM)
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#2225323 - 02/03/14 05:58 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Morty]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2637
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Morty
I'm about a month from receiving my CS10 (hopefully). All these problems with the CA95's keyboard actions is making me concerned. If I get a problem with my piano, I probably have to ship the piano to the nearest piano technician, about 200 km. The same will probably be true for any DP. From following this thread, one can get the impression that the reliability of either Yamaha or Roland is somewhat better than Kawais? So, should I cancel my order for the CS10, and go one of Roland LX15 or Yamaha NU1?

No, not for the reasons you state.

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#2225337 - 02/03/14 06:44 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: spanishbuddha]
Morty Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: Morty
I'm about a month from receiving my CS10 (hopefully). All these problems with the CA95's keyboard actions is making me concerned. If I get a problem with my piano, I probably have to ship the piano to the nearest piano technician, about 200 km. The same will probably be true for any DP. From following this thread, one can get the impression that the reliability of either Yamaha or Roland is somewhat better than Kawais? So, should I cancel my order for the CS10, and go one of Roland LX15 or Yamaha NU1?

No, not for the reasons you state.


Ok, thanks. thumb
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#2225339 - 02/03/14 06:46 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
TheodorN Offline
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1362
Loc: Sweden
The question is if there is any indication of more problems with Kawai than other brands. Such an indication can not be based on one thread, and the experiences of one or few users. I've been reading about problems with Yamaha boards as well, for example the Yamaha P105. People tend to place higher demands though - and rightly so in my opinion - on more expensive pianos.

If we want to know which brands have the higher failing statistics, we have to look at many discussion sites, and many reviews, from here, from Amazon, Sweetwater, Musician's Friend and on and on. One dissatisfied customer doesn't tell you much, fifteen dissatisfied customers do.
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#2225355 - 02/03/14 07:10 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Morty]
iceporky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Morty
I'm about a month from receiving my CS10 (hopefully). All these problems with the CA95's keyboard action are making me concerned.

So, should I cancel my order for the CS10, and go one of Roland LX15 or Yamaha NU1?


Of course not. Mine is just one of the few exceptions. I believe there are many Kawai DPs that are delivered in perfect conditions. Don't worry about it. smile
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Yamaha U3.

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#2225356 - 02/03/14 07:12 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: evamar]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
evemar

"As a foreigner here I'm a second class citizen, and quite clearly. British people are quite notorious about putting a label within 2 seconds of listening to somebody speaking . . "

Nay, lad! You`re not a second class citizen. Your statement applies primarily (you may not realize this) to the Great North - South Divide. There`s an imaginary line drawn between Bristol and The Wash which divides our Sceptred Isle. You will not be accepted in Southern circles with a Northern accent, to the degree that anyone wanting to get on in their chosen vocation will take ellekyu-shun lessons (sorry about that, I`ve had a drink) like Tony Blair (a Scotsman) and countless others have. . . as far as foreigners are concerned, give back whatever you have to take. We love it . . .!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2225363 - 02/03/14 07:27 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: chickenlump]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: chickenlump
peter,
I don't understand how the caution against the use of the term 'jap' has turned into a tirade against political correctness.

Now I'm sympathetic to the issue of political over-correctness, but this word has a clear historical and etymological reason why many people consider it derogatory. Instead of modifying your usage, stating that you will "stand your ground" against political correctness is a very arrogant point of view. This word has been considered improper for quite some time, it's not the fault of being 'politically correct' that you were not informed about it's connotations.


You really don`t get it do you? Can you not discern the difference between arrogance and humour? Lose humour, you lose everything. Imo of course. You`re not an ole Brit, you cannot possibly understand the way a 65yo thinks in our country which has been subject to an effete Government system that caves in to every vociferous pressure group in existence whilst in power, yet vehemently opposes them whilst in Opposition. We live in deceptive times, my friend. Be aware. George Orwell perceived this long ago. Patrick McGoohan did too; he portrayed the Legal Profession as clowns("The Prisoner") . .

In any case, I didn`t start this bloody argument! James did . . . .

Further. Please, if anyone wants to continue this debate, please send me a personal and keep this posting clear! Cheers Peter. Have fun.



Edited by peterws (02/03/14 07:37 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2225365 - 02/03/14 07:30 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
Morty Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: iceporky
Originally Posted By: Morty
I'm about a month from receiving my CS10 (hopefully). All these problems with the CA95's keyboard action are making me concerned.

So, should I cancel my order for the CS10, and go one of Roland LX15 or Yamaha NU1?


Of course not. Mine is just one of the few exceptions. I believe there are many Kawai DPs that are delivered in perfect conditions. Don't worry about it. smile


Ok. There isn't a lot of information about the CS10 on the net, and most of the information there are, are on these forums. There isn't a lot of "review" type information to get hold on on any of the top DP's, and for one who doesn't have to opportunity to test all of them it's hard to get a real impression of them. So, one tries to absorb all information one can find, and filter out the noise before making a conclusion. Since there are so little information available, especially on the CS10, a few negative comments/threads can make a big impact on the perception of an instruments qualities.

So, I will stick to my decision and hope for the best!

M


Edited by Morty (02/03/14 07:31 PM)
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Kawai CS10

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#2225414 - 02/03/14 09:01 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 816
Loc: New England, USA
Way to go Morty! The CS10 is a very fine DP!
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#2225450 - 02/03/14 09:56 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: Morty]
iceporky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Morty
Since there are so little information available, especially on the CS10, a few negative comments/threads can make a big impact on the perception of an instruments qualities.


I don't see this as an issue with Kawai's products. I see it as an issue with the dealers. Like all projects, there will always be issues. The key is to fix them promptly and properly. Then everyone is happy. I don't fault Kawai in this case, I fault the dealer.

Anyways, congrats on purchasing the CS10. You are indeed blessed to have such a fine piano to call your own. smile

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#2225571 - 02/04/14 03:02 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: peterws]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 578
Loc: Spanish living in UK
Originally Posted By: peterws
evemar

"As a foreigner here I'm a second class citizen, and quite clearly. British people are quite notorious about putting a label within 2 seconds of listening to somebody speaking . . "

Nay, lad! You`re not a second class citizen. Your statement applies primarily (you may not realize this) to the Great North - South Divide. There`s an imaginary line drawn between Bristol and The Wash which divides our Sceptred Isle. You will not be accepted in Southern circles with a Northern accent, to the degree that anyone wanting to get on in their chosen vocation will take ellekyu-shun lessons (sorry about that, I`ve had a drink) like Tony Blair (a Scotsman) and countless others have. . . as far as foreigners are concerned, give back whatever you have to take. We love it . . .!


Lass, actually ... hum... over 40, though! smile

I didn't know Tony Blair is a Scotsman! He did a good job hiding it! Quite sad, really.

Now you say it, my best British friend is from Scotland... we both had to do quite a lot of work to get to understand each other... she's quite direct, which I really like. grin

But you still see a lot of high noses and cold shoulders even between British themselves, from the same area, not even mentioning foreigners... at least in South England, cannot say anything yet about the "space up there" wink Definitely class division issue. ("We are all middle class"! hehe, yeah right)
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Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2225574 - 02/04/14 03:08 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 578
Loc: Spanish living in UK
I agree, the CA95 is a magnificent digital piano and it's just a pity that you found a problem with yours.

However, I also think that securing a good after sales service is also important, and that comes as a responsibility of the maker. There should be far more recognised techs everywhere to deal with any issue. I wouldn't blame the dealer, they are trying their best to fix it, but unfortunately they haven't been trained properly. That's why I think that Kawai should offer training workshops precisely to create a good after sale service. Look at you, only one Kawai dealer in your country, and they cannot fix it.

I would ask them to take it back, and it's your decision either to take a refund and look for something else or to get a new CA95.
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2225691 - 02/04/14 10:06 AM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: evamar]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: evamar
[quote=peterws]evemar
But you still see a lot of high noses and cold shoulders even between British themselves, from the same area, not even mentioning foreigners... at least in South England, cannot say anything yet about the "space up there" wink Definitely class division issue. ("We are all middle class"! hehe, yeah right)


This is indeed a sorry sounding experience. Unpleasant and obtuse people! I apologise on behalf of my countrymen (or should I say persons). But as Peter says, we're really not all like this. In fact,up north, from where I also originate, we're not snobs. Just sullen, awkward bastards. smile


Edited by toddy (02/04/14 10:06 AM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#2225762 - 02/04/14 12:50 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: evamar]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 770
"Magnificent" or not there DOES seem to be an issue with adequate preparation for shipment and with getting competent repair help when units succumb to whatever shipping stresses they are subjected to.
Not saying that ALL of them are subject to the same shipping/handling stresses, or that ALL of them succumb, or that ALL the repair technicians are incompetent.
a) If it is shipping damage, even if it is a jolt that dislodges something that can be put back - it shouldn't happen.
OK, so pallet forks going through the side of the crate is a level of stress that they can't reasonably "package"(verb) against, but for foreseeable shocks it should be possible to restrain parts likely to "move around a bit".
Design for transport; domestic appliances typically have bars and brackets to restrain internal movement, this is NOT hard to do and do right.
b) When a part becomes misaligned during shipment it should be possible to re-align it easily and simply WITHOUT risking further degradation by what may politely called "technician process induced damage/faults/failures".
From the (anecdotal, OK I get that) evidence it would seem that dismantling/re-assembling of case parts is i) Not intuitive b) not taught c) not well documented.

My IMPRESSION is that local music stores assign their "electronics" techs to everything that isn't 100% acoustic and don't offer much training in the "construction aspects" of the instruments. e.g. the correct sequence in which to take it apart and re-assemble it, align whatever to whichever in order to ensure that covers/lids move smoothly and close tightly, etc.
========================================================
Heck, I just bought a new fridge.
The DELIVERY driver knew how to level it and align the doors so that they close nicely.
His only JOB is to get it off the truck and in the right room in the house (-:
To be fair, he probably delivers half dozen or more every day and they are probably all very similar, so he is well practiced.

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#2225763 - 02/04/14 12:52 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: iceporky]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 770
Anyone 'ere speak Scouse ?


Edited by R_B (02/04/14 12:52 PM)

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#2225765 - 02/04/14 12:55 PM Re: My Kawai CA95 has arrived! [Re: R_B]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4461
Loc: Northern England.
You don`t write Scouse . . . . grin
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New Topics - Multiple Forums
Sight Reading vs Memorizing Tug of war
by bananasushi
08/29/15 03:40 PM
Any good sight reading software?
by bananasushi
08/29/15 02:50 PM
Blind Pianists being able to see the keys in their mind
by bananasushi
08/29/15 02:33 PM
Can you identify by ear only what key something is in?
by Stubbie
08/29/15 02:26 PM
Article on Practicing away from the piano
by bananasushi
08/29/15 02:16 PM
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