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Joined: Apr 2010
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While I agree with Opus Maximus to some extent. I inherited a student who had no sense of rhythm, and I was appalled at her previous teacher for failing to teach her to count. After a year of trying strategy after strategy after strategy to get her to feel the beat . . . well, she still is struggling. One of the things I am best at is teaching counting, and I have broken some VERY bad habits in some of my students, but with her, I was just stumped. I wonder now how many things her previous teacher tried. I did improve her technique quite a bit, though. The point is, it's sometimes impossible to tell where the weaknesses our transfer students have originated, whether from the teacher or from the student.
At the same time, well, you can kind of tell. This particular student, and her brother, were both very, very good at reading music. They could play with beautiful dynamics, and they practiced like a dream. Whenever I asked them to improve something on a piece (except for the girl's counting, of course), they'd come back the next week with it fixed. It was clear after a while that their previous teacher had been good, if not perfect.
Not so with another transfer student. She had "taken lessons" for three years before taking a year off due to frustration and then wanting to begin again with me. In those three years, she appeared to have learned nothing. Apparently after her first lesson with me, she went home and raved to her mom about how much she learned! She was so excited! Within a few months she was reading music and counting and actually, you know, playing piano. The previous teacher had insisted that a child her age (7-9) didn't have a long enough attention span for 30 minute lessons, so she did 15 minute lessons, and the teacher wasn't sitting right at the piano for the whole lesson even then. And the mom said this teacher was more expensive than I was (I was just starting out and had low rates back then). Oy. Just thinking about that makes me hot under the collar still. How can someone like that even have the gall to call themselves a piano teacher?
Piano teacher since 2008, festivals chair for local chapter of NFMC, dabbling composer of pedagogical music
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Why do you accept these students? Do you ever think before you write? Actually, yes. I thought quite hard and couldn't come up with a reason to subject oneself to these types of students. I think the point is, these aren't "types of students" at all. Such a label seems to lay the blame on them, rather than the previous teacher. Certainly, the two I have acquired recently have responded really well to me so far, and I thoroughly enjoy teaching them. So, I would be more inclined to ask "Why wouldn't you accept these students?"
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Why do you accept these students? Do you ever think before you write? Actually, yes. I thought quite hard and couldn't come up with a reason to subject oneself to these types of students. Let's define "type of student" to make sure we're on the same page. A student takes lessons, listens attentively, and diligently practices what he is told. All the time this student is being mistaught, and this misteaching causes problems. Finally this attentive, diligent student goes to another teacher, having these problems which were caused by the first teacher. Your opinion is that this student should be rejected by good teachers, and never have a chance to improve. That student would be forced to try to fix his own problems which were caused by the poor teaching..... without having the ability to do so because of the results of the misteaching. Any student who was mistaught is condemned forever. That is what you are saying. Did you think about this? Did you understand that this is what we are talking about? Or are you simply thinking of a student who plays badly because he has a poor attitude, "doesn't have it in him" or something like that? There are people right in this forum whom you would condemn to not getting good instruction, because of the kind of instruction that they first received through no fault of their own.
Last edited by keystring; 11/15/13 09:54 PM.
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Why do you accept these students? Do you ever think before you write? Actually, yes. I thought quite hard and couldn't come up with a reason to subject oneself to these types of students. You have a point here, for sure. These types of transfer students can be VERY difficult to deal with. It's tough. Easier to not take them, but some of us need the money, it's just the way it is. Do any piano teachers have only ideal students???
Piano Teacher
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In retrospect some transfer students stay in method books too long and you always find them saying what hand position is this song in?
I think if you are a qualified teacher then you can teach with or without a method book. Also what one teacher thinks is important for a child to learn another teacher may not.
Just look at all of the options there are for schools: Montessori, public school, homeschool etc. Many children are raised in different learning environments and also taught through different learning styles.
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While I'll be the first to admit that the world is plagued by inferior and unqualified teachers (as well as idiotic and sadistic assholes), I think we DO have to keep in mind that there are usually many, many factors in play behind a deficient piano student, and I think a lot of times the student, or other contributing factors could have just as much to do with it as the teacher.
Going off of what Joyce said a few posts above, let us all think of our worst students. I'm sure that if they suddenly switched teachers (or, even worse, took a 5 month break then went back to a new teacher), we would be completely embarrassed and ashamed of the impression that student would make on us, but it was out of out control. (After all, the very concept of a "transfer" student implies that something on the other end - of either a personal of logistical nature - was not working out in the first place).
Just yesterday, the mom of one of my highest-paying students (of over a year) called me and said "We really appreciate that you're trying to get him to read music and teaching him technique, but he really just wants to have fun and move his fingers. We'd appreciate it if you could just chill with him instead". The customer has spoken my friends. So let's say this kid goes to a new teacher in 5 months..obviously they will think I have taught him nothing, when in reality I tried to do everything. I have another student (also one of the highest paying), who I don't' bother to teacher correct technique to, because we've been working sitting on her couch on an unweighted 3 octave keyboard for the past year. Then you have situations where parents only want a 30 minute lessons when their level/ability clearly denotes more is needed. Then you have situations where students take 2 or 3 months off. Then you have students who don't touch the instrument between lessons. Then of course there are some students who, no matter how good the teaching or motivation, just can't really get anything to gel.
So my point is there are really too many factors at play to judge the quality of previous teaching, in my opinion.
Very interesting points here. FWIW I had a student transfer to me a few years ago. He was awful. I had to let him go after a few months of struggle. I learned that he studied with a very well-respected teacher in a neighboring community. She has a reputation of being a good teacher. This kid did not want to continue with piano lessons and was rebelling.
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Why do you accept these students? Have you ever heard of money?
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Why do you accept these students? Have you ever heard of money? Nope. What's that? Yes, of course I have. What's your point?
Regards,
Polyphonist
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You're a bit of an enigmatic poster, both here and on PC. I can't quite piece you together, or figure out what you do in life. That is not an insult, it's just how you come off to me here.
This forum is frequented mostly by those who have trained long and hard in the art of piano playing, and now are passing it on to others is their main/sole source of income. It is a long standing, dignified, and stable career path. Many of us are not trained in any secondary skills, nor have big inheritances, or an income generating spouse, thus if we don't teach, there is a risk of not being able to eat or pay rent.
No work = no money. Money = necessity for life. Piano students = money. Only taking piano students who are easy to teach and have been well trained = probably not enough money.
Tell me how that does not make sense to you.
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I'm going to go the opposite way of AZPiano! This year I got around 6 transfer students. And they all come from the same teacher. Well, she did an awesome job for the past couple of years (they all started together) and I'm pretty happy to have them as my students! 
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I'm going to go the opposite way of AZPiano! This year I got around 6 transfer students. And they all come from the same teacher. Well, she did an awesome job for the past couple of years (they all started together) and I'm pretty happy to have them as my students! Hey, I got those students, too! But the good transfers are hard to come by. For every good transfer student, I get 20 dubious ones.
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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So my point is there are really too many factors at play to judge the quality of previous teaching, in my opinion. Yes and no. I agree there are some awful students who are just awful because they can't learn and/or their parents don't want to be involved in the learning process. Or the kids are just being forced to take piano lessons against their will. But there are some telltale signs of incompetent teaching: 1) Skipping ahead in the method books, not covering everything 2) Leaving wrong answers in workbooks uncorrected 3) Spending months and months on the 4 CM pieces and nothing else 4) The student is at "level 8" while sight reading is at level 1 etc. etc. etc.
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Yet ur still blaming the teacher..., what about the parent who want committed to lessons and allowed the child to not practice, or didn't increase lesson time or everytime you suggested something the parent wanted something different.
Unless you are teaching right along side someone you can't tell if the are horrible or not .
Also the grading events seem to mate not only to parents but universities too so there's nothing wrong with preparing students for those events even though that may consume most of your lesson time.
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But AZPiano is very clear on the reasons: If there's a clear reason (missed method books, jumping anywhere in the book, not training the kid to read properly, no sight reading practice, etc), then this IS the teachers fault. I mean even if the parent doesn't care, the books/scores should be filled with notes, drafts, comments, etc... with pencil or whatever else you may think necessary.
For the students that AZ is talking about, this doesn't seem the case. Plus I think he's had the students enough time to tell if some students are static, because of their being lazy, or the parents not caring, or because they lack the actual knowledge of what to do when practising the piano...
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I've never understood complaints about transfer students. Of course they've been poorly trained, that's why they're transferring!
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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I've never understood complaints about transfer students. Of course they've been poorly trained, that's why they're transferring! They also transfer because teachers move, or they move. There are a lot of reasons why students switch teachers.
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One of my children's friends transferred because the first teacher was very severe during lessons and scolded the student a lot and the student got very scared of piano lessons.
One story that my son's first teacher told us was that a parent transferred her kid to our teacher because the previous teacher didn't want the kid to take exams just yet and our teacher had the reputation of getting lots of kids through exams. Then our teacher told the parent that he agreed with the previous teacher that this kid simply wasn't ready. So soon enough the parent transferred the kid to yet another teacher...
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There are no bad piano teachers, only bad pupils. They need to be caned at least once a month, more often in bad cases. Once they have learned that the ability to sit without severe discomfort is a privilege to be earned rather than a right their progress is sure to be rapid.
Sauter Alpha 160, Yamaha N3 Avant Grand, Sauter Studio Upright (1974)
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