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#2181178 - 11/12/13 04:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Hi, glad to see that this thread is alive an well. It's been a very long time since I posted. I recently had some time to actually practice straight ahead jazz... but lately when I play is I get this "been there, done that" feel. I guess It's hard to get inspired about playing.


Edited by etcetra (11/13/13 01:29 AM)

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#2181316 - 11/12/13 10:35 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
etc. I can't get to it. its telling me to log in.

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#2181321 - 11/12/13 10:52 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Etcetera, you've got to put the share link instead...

Random thoughts ---

I haven't been getting much practice lately. At least not like before. And I miss many days of practice. But strangely enough, I get back on the instrument and I can see regular improvement still.

About the only thing different is that in my minds eye, I'm thinking of things I'd like to change and for whatever reason, it's happening without needing to practice it extensively. Of course, I'm still always gigging but that's not really practice.

Anyway, it's really interesting what's occurring. I'd rather get the practice of course but time isn't on my side right now.
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#2181340 - 11/12/13 11:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
.


Edited by etcetra (11/13/13 01:26 AM)

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#2181344 - 11/12/13 11:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: etcetra]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
Originally Posted By: etcetra
sorry about that, here's the link

Autumn Leaves
https://app.box.com/s/mxwitop1rp4ushy55wue

Blues Block Chords
https://app.box.com/s/qcjk8xuxkvym1bekzinm



Had a listen. Is it me or is the keyboard player playing a hair fast on Autumn leaves and then a second slow on the Blues block. He is rushing and not playing in the pocket. It doesn't sound in sync, like the rhythm section is trying to catch up. If you guys are just an amateur band playing for fun then it's understandable. Keep at it.

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#2181346 - 11/13/13 12:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: The Wind]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I think part of the delay you are talking about may be coming from the program i am using (Ableton Live). I am putting abersold track on one track and playing keyboard(midi controller) on another track it on my computer, and I am noticing slowdowns/speedup as I play. sometimes it's very noticeable, other times it's hard to tell if it's me or if the tracks are really out of sync.


This one I did on the keyboard with the backing track from another audio source.
https://app.box.com/shared/n1l1scrx6n

and solo kb
https://app.box.com/files/0/f/0/1/f_390194336

Just to be clear, these are not live recordings with actual bands, they are just stuff I did while practicing at home with abersolds or backing tracks I've made.


Edited by etcetra (11/13/13 01:11 AM)

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#2181352 - 11/13/13 12:38 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
yah that could be it. didn't realize it was backing tracks. that's probably the "rushing" that I hear. it's not perfectly in sync. If I just listen to your playing and tap the beat then it's in time, but the bass does sound off.

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#2181358 - 11/13/13 01:03 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: The Wind]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Originally Posted By: The Wind
yah that could be it. didn't realize it was backing tracks. that's probably the "rushing" that I hear. it's not perfectly in sync. If I just listen to your playing and tap the beat then it's in time, but the bass does sound off.


Hmm I've had this suspicion about tracks being out of sync.. I guess I'll have to use ditch the midi controller and go back to using keyboard from different audio source. I am glad I've put it to the test here. I also did sped up the backing tracks like 20 clicks too.

I guess I've gotten used to it, and told myself to just keep my own time playing(after all, it's the sort of stuff you've gotta do on gigs somtimes). Don't get me wrong, I do have problem with rhythm tendency to rush and I am doing a lot of rhythmic stuff during the "autmn leaves" solo, but at least while I was soloing, I was pretty sure of where I was rhythmically most of the time

anyways thanks for the feedback.


Edited by etcetra (11/13/13 01:08 AM)

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#2181360 - 11/13/13 01:13 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
are you playing with the backing track at the same time or just adding the audio in afterwards?

Cause if it's recorded together you'd be able to hear that something is off. I mean honestly I can barely listen to it. the backing track is not that good, I can't hear the drummer on the 2 and 4 and the bass notes aren't precisely on the beat. add in the delay of your playing and it's just grating.

the last track sunflower sounds much better rhythmically. you are playing with the drumbeat and it's clear where the accents are.

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#2181364 - 11/13/13 01:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: The Wind]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Originally Posted By: The Wind
are you playing with the backing track at the same time or just adding the audio in afterwards?

Cause if it's recorded together you'd be able to hear that something is off. I mean honestly I can barely listen to it. the backing track is not that good, I can't hear the drummer on the 2 and 4 and the bass notes aren't precisely on the beat. add in the delay of your playing and it's just grating.

the last track sunflower sounds much better rhythmically. you are playing with the drumbeat and it's clear where the accents are.



I used different methods for the two recording. Sunflower, I had the backing tracks on my computer and I recorded live with an actual keyboard, so there shouldn't be any problem there.

The out-of-sync-ness on other tracks seem to happen in different places. Sometimes I hear it while I am playing, sometimes it doesn't sound like a problem until I recorded the whole thing and play it back(so post-processing issue). I am not well-versed in these programs so chances are I am probably not doing it right.

anyways I am going to take down the recording. No point posting something when there is noticeable technical issues with it.


Edited by etcetra (11/13/13 01:27 AM)

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#2182160 - 11/14/13 08:12 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I haven't been getting much practice lately. At least not like before.

Between sitting at the computer scoring for bigband as well as symphonic wind orchestra and cooking dinner for my kids it's been not a gig or jam in sight. But I must that thanks to the Aebersold backing tracks I've managed to get some playing done. There's some excellent playing in the drums and bass!
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2182322 - 11/14/13 01:42 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I haven't been getting much practice lately. At least not like before.

Between sitting at the computer scoring for bigband as well as symphonic wind orchestra and cooking dinner for my kids it's been not a gig or jam in sight. But I must that thanks to the Aebersold backing tracks I've managed to get some playing done. There's some excellent playing in the drums and bass!


That's too bad. No regular Jam around you? I happen to run the jam so I'm guaranteed playtime at least twice a month smile Maybe you need to start the jam yourself.

My minimum live playing is at least 4x per month.

Well at least your brain is occupied with music so it's probably still good.

Now one unique thing is that I got a call for a solo piano gig. I haven't done those in awhile. However, informally, I always play solo piano as a warmup before the band starts so I suppose it's not much of a concern.

Even though I don't sit on a piano as long, I still do those 5 finger down exercises on a flat surface while I work. I do it constantly so it must help.
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#2182649 - 11/15/13 05:04 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
hey wee, the solo gig sounds fun. I'm trying to get some lined up for the holiday season. Record the gig if you can and post some up.

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#2182651 - 11/15/13 05:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
For those of you with some time here's a cool Herbie Hancock interview I found. It is on Dutch TV.

He plays a a medley of Cantaloupe Island and Maiden V, and also Sonrisa at the end which I quite liked.

http://www.npo.nl/kunststof-tv/04-11-2012/NPS_1207712

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#2182652 - 11/15/13 05:10 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
Also, it's quite funny when the other guest, a Brazilian singer asks Herbie to do a duo record! He says no jokingly then yes of course. I"ll try to find the exact time when it happens.

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#2182653 - 11/15/13 05:12 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
Go to 19:00 for the funny exchange.

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#2183186 - 11/16/13 01:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: The Wind]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: The Wind
hey wee, the solo gig sounds fun. I'm trying to get some lined up for the holiday season. Record the gig if you can and post some up.


LOL - probably not. The piano isn't likely to be tuned.

I'll do it on my own piano though. Actually I've been practicing solo piano the last few days just to see if I can do it. But I'm comfortable.

I haven't done a solo piano gig in 2 years I think. So I had to retrain my left hand to do those bass notes. LOL.
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#2184500 - 11/18/13 12:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
New topic: Secondary Dominants and Left hand chords.

For some songs there's lots of 2-5-1 key changes. If you are playing solo piano what would your approach be for left hand chords?

Say the ballad "I Fall in Love too Easily". Key is C major. there are 2-5-1 in A-, E+, D-. I have just been using the standard chord playing the bass note. My brain can't think that fast of weird voicings that mesh well.

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#2184705 - 11/18/13 05:27 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 624
Loc: Chicago
If want to add chords between those that are written, I like the system one pianist taught me: to get to a target chord, you can add the big three before most chords:
1. The dominant of the target chord.
2. The tritone sub of the dominant, which is the dominant a half step up from the target chord.
3. A fully diminished chord a half step below the target chord. This is really a rootless dominant with a flat 9.

This system has worked well for me. I use 2 and 3 mostly.

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#2185194 - 11/19/13 03:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: The Wind]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: The Wind
New topic: Secondary Dominants and Left hand chords.

For some songs there's lots of 2-5-1 key changes. If you are playing solo piano what would your approach be for left hand chords?

Say the ballad "I Fall in Love too Easily". Key is C major. there are 2-5-1 in A-, E+, D-. I have just been using the standard chord playing the bass note. My brain can't think that fast of weird voicings that mesh well.


Are you talking here of voicings? Subs? Or what to do with the LH?

Which I should ask anyway... What are you doing with the LH? Are you playing a stride style? Two-handed voicings? Occasional bass note + rootless? Walking bass?
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#2185524 - 11/20/13 07:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Are you talking here of voicings? Subs? Or what to do with the LH?

Which I should ask anyway... What are you doing with the LH? Are you playing a stride style? Two-handed voicings? Occasional bass note + rootless? Walking bass?



hey wee, I am talking specifically about chord voicings. Like say a 2-5-1 in C major. The chord progression is 2-5-1 in A-, then E-, then back to C major.

Take the A-, I would play the bass root of each chord, and some type of shell voicing. so, B, E, A . F#,B E.... What I'm getting at is a smooth transition so my left hand isn't jumping everywhere.

I would need to work out the actual fingering and practice the movement first.


Talking in general, I find there's basic voicings I tend to use for the left hand, nothing too fancy.

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#2186491 - 11/21/13 05:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I thought I'd share a little what I've been up to lately; arranging and orchestrating some tunes, etc for symphonic wind orchestra and piano trio (alas, not me on the piano) It's a professional orchestra, so I'm very lucky in getting some really heavy players.

Here's two excerpts from a Legrand medley (love his tunes, chords):
Excerpt one: https://app.box.com/s/b4of1t3j9t1e77rirrjd
Excerpt two: https://app.box.com/s/5czxts5rg487vs47lcuu

Another example. It's from a middle section of an original tune (its for the same concert as above; tomorrow evening actually . . . ).
The wood-winds play softly and the piano trio blows over these changes. C#m9 | DMaj7 | G#m11

https://app.box.com/s/qnru73oz35t19390f0a8

I can't describe what a blast it is to hear ones work performed live by some really bad players!
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2186978 - 11/22/13 05:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
No recordings Chris? Awesome work my friend.
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#2186999 - 11/22/13 05:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Some music from last night. Unfortunately the keyboard is really bad in the mix. Pointed completely away from the recorder and the volume is too low as well.

Recordame
https://app.box.com/s/t17dgvd1ovnr2yrquzya

Just the Two of Us
https://app.box.com/s/ooutt54mtmtddq35nidu
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#2187022 - 11/22/13 06:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
No recordings Chris? Awesome work my friend.
Thanks. Yeah, here's from tonights concert:
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2187024 - 11/22/13 06:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
No recordings Chris? Awesome work my friend.
Thanks. Yeah, here's from tonights concert:


Wow - BIG TIME STUFF! Impressive.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#2189031 - 11/27/13 02:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Just thinking that as I prepare for Christmas gigs that I don't do justice to tunes like Christmas Song. So hard to remember the changes (and different keys) just so you play it 3 times a year....

In any case, anyone have good Jazzy (good for soloing) Christmas tunes?

Christmas Time is Here is of course a given. Easy enough to play and great to blow over.

Gotta woodshed everything now. Never enough time for this since I always start too late.
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#2189731 - 11/28/13 04:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 624
Loc: Chicago
Happy Thanksgiving to my internet jazz piano clan. Today I'm chef, although I might get to play some tunes tonight.

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#2189899 - 11/28/13 11:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Happy Thanksgiving to you too jjo.
Turkey + jazz is a good combo.

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#2189939 - 11/29/13 03:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Yep I was the chef and then the entertainment. Double duty!

I was surprisingly able to turn a lot of Christmas Carols into some jazz numbers on solo piano so I got some woodshedding done too!

Hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving!
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My Blog

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