Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2189092 - 11/27/13 08:12 AM OK, another "help me find a DP" thread
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
So I live in FL for most of the year, but spend Christmas and the summers in WI. This is where my DP comes in handy. I have a Roland FP-7, and while I've certainly gotten good use out of it, this past summer was the first time I played that exclusively over 3 months. With the classical music I play, it really affected my technique in a bad way. I'm dreading having to play every day on that thing again come this summer, so I'm looking to upgrade. And, heck, it's been 4 or 5 years, so things have come a long way since then.

Here are some requirements:
1) Needs to be a stage piano/slab style for portability
2) The action and responsiveness has to be top of the line - as close to acoustic as possible
3) I'd prefer to not have to use a VST for sounds. Not opposed to it, but every once in a while I have to take it to perform somewhere, and having to hook up to a computer is too much fuss for that. So, the onboard sounds need to be good too.

As far as price range, I'm willing to consider a bit more than what I paid for the FP-7 for the purposes of getting what I need, but under $5k is what I'm thinking. Of course, I will go and test out the best options before purchasing, but I want to know first what good choices are and not get sold on something by a salesperson who is trying to offload an old floor model of something.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / PR /Roland
Your Next Keyboard is at Sweetwater

Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano

Click Here


#2189098 - 11/27/13 08:24 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8868
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The FP-7 is quite a good instrument, if a little dated. May I ask why you believe it is lacking?

As for alternatives, do you require built-in speakers?
The CP4 that was purchased by your church is certainly worth considering.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2189099 - 11/27/13 08:27 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3154
The FP-7 action is quite good, what in particular do you find unsatisfactory about it? That information might help guide people's suggestions.

Top
#2189121 - 11/27/13 09:33 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I ended up with a lot of tension issues from playing on it exclusively. It's fine for playing once in a while, or as a second piano in my studio, but to be working on technical issues in advanced classical pieces, I think the action was perhaps too jarring/clunky? Which is odd, because my Petrof has an extremely heavy action and that is why I went with the heavier Roland action.

On-board speakers would be nice, again for portability purposes, but I know they can also cause some troubles. With My FP-7 the on-board speakers always buzz around G4 and even making adjustments in the EQ doesn't resolve this.

I will definitely try out the CP4 - I was reading the reviews on this and I'm concerned about the stretching, so I'd like to have some others to compare it to.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#2189151 - 11/27/13 10:50 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3154
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I think the action was perhaps too jarring/clunky?

I think that a hard bottoming is a common complaint for those who are dissatisfied with the higher end Roland actions. You might prefer the CP4 or one of its pair of predecessors, CP1 and CP5 (which have a slightly different feel than the CP4), which I think are in the same general feel category as the Roland, though possibly better in that bottoming respect.

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Which is odd, because my Petrof has an extremely heavy action and that is why I went with the heavier Roland action.

As DPs go, the FP7 has a lighter action than most, I think one of the lightest. Maybe not as light as your Yamaha G3 grand, which, at least based on the one I played, has one of the lightest actions of any grand, but lighter than almost any other DP. If based on your Petrof experience (I've never played one) you might like an "even" heavier DP than your Roland, there are a number of other possibilities. I would check out the Kawai MP10, although it stretches the definition of portable. Lighter, and with speakers, there's the ES7, which I haven't had a chance to try yet, though I know the action is not the same as on the MP10. Kawais in general seem to have heavier than average actions in my experience (both their acoustics and digitals). They also have the VPC1 controller, but that lacks both speakers and built in sounds.

Yamaha also makes models with a heavier action than the CP models mentioned above, and that action has its fans as well. For models with speakers, they would be the P-155 and the (again, barely portable) CP-300. Without speakers, CP-33, CP40.

I'd also consider the Casio PX-350, triggering a VST from your computer, using its internal sound as a fallback for portable use.

Top
#2189164 - 11/27/13 11:25 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I ended up with a lot of tension issues from playing on it exclusively. It's fine for playing once in a while, or as a second piano in my studio, but to be working on technical issues in advanced classical pieces, I think the action was perhaps too jarring/clunky? Which is odd, because my Petrof has an extremely heavy action and that is why I went with the heavier Roland action.

If the DP action is giving you injuries I'd say get the lightest hammer action you can find - like Yamaha GHS. Unlike AP keys, DP keys don't change mechanical advantage (no escapement) so any remaining hammer energy comes right back at your fingers. Better hammer padding / lighter hammers are the only ways to minimize this backlash.

We just got a P105 and - while the horrific looping, and to a lesser extent the extreme stretching, grate my auditory nerves into cole slaw - at 27 lbs it's very portable and the speakers aren't bad. Sympathetic resonance is almost non-existent / inaudible, so your pedaling technique will likely suffer, but it's super inexpensive ($530 with padded bag - 1/10 of your budget) and the interface is simple. It also has line-outs.

You might also look at the Roland FP-4F - SN sound, some say the keys feel sluggish (though the entire FP-4 => FP-4F feature team should get the electric chair).

I'm thinking the smartest move is to invest minimally (low end / used) or stay out of the DP market entirely if you can until DP makers decide to enter the 20th (never mind the 21st) century. Whatever happened to boycotts?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2189172 - 11/27/13 11:43 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 202
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
If you won't need to rely on a DP as your primary instrument until summer, consider waiting to make a final decision until after the new product introductions at Winter NAMM. In the meantime, I would echo anotherscott's advice to audition the Kawai ES7 and MP10.

I found both those actions very much more comfortable to play on than the Roland FPs.

Kind regards,

Ben

Top
#2189179 - 11/27/13 12:04 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: slowtraveler]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: slowtraveler
If you won't need to rely on a DP as your primary instrument until summer, consider waiting to make a final decision until after the new product introductions at Winter NAMM. In the meantime, I would echo anotherscott's advice to audition the Kawai ES7 and MP10.

I found both those actions very much more comfortable to play on than the Roland FPs.

Kind regards,

Ben
I will definitely try the Kawai DPs. Thing is, time-wise I need to spend money before the end of the year for tax write-offs, and while that will help for next year, I'm pretty sure I will need to spend some money this year.
However, if there's the right DP for me then I can wait. Any rumors about products being introduced there that might fit the bill?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#2189188 - 11/27/13 12:32 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Any rumors about products being introduced there that might fit the bill?


Unfortunately we almost never get useful rumors around here. These manufacturers are pretty tight-lipped. James hinted that there's a replacement MP6 in the works, but there are always replacement models in the works, so that's not really news since he didn't give any time frame.

Oh, and Roland came out (in japan) with some piano models featuring a new action (PHA4?) that resolves some of people's complaints about PHA3. I haven't seen any products featuring it over here and we haven't had any reviews either, so...

Top
#2189192 - 11/27/13 12:46 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3154
Originally Posted By: dewster
Whatever happened to boycotts?

Boycotts can be a problem if you want to have something to enjoy before you die. ;-)

I understand where you're coming from with your suggestion, that if there are hand issues, look for the lightest hammer action board, but if his Petrof really is heavy, the weight per se might not be the issue at all. And really, are there any DPs with significantly lighter action than the FP-7/7F (which feel about the same apart from the finish)? Though as mentioned, he wouldn't be the first to complain about the hard bottoming, which is a different issue.

Top
#2189282 - 11/27/13 03:51 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Though as mentioned, he wouldn't be the first to complain about the hard bottoming, which is a different issue.

I imagine hard bottoming and hammer rebound could be confused / interact with each other.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2189319 - 11/27/13 05:28 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Morodiene]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 794
Considering your situation, I'll add another vote for the Kawais. In many ways, the rather portable ES7 is a very nice board, and its action seemed, to me, one of the more easy-going on the market while it is very nicely controllable. In terms of sound preferences only you can decide, but the ES7 allows to customize the sound in several helpful ways.

For the MP10 there may be a successor in the making which might just be what you want.

The Yamaha P155, on the other hand, has a tighter action that may or may not be good for you, and again, I am not sure whether it offers substantial advantages over your FP7. But be sure to check out the Yamaha CP1/CP4/CP5 as well.

Top
#2189343 - 11/27/13 06:41 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: anotherscott]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8868
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Though as mentioned, he wouldn't be the first to complain about the hard bottoming, which is a different issue.


Off-topic, but for some reason I was under the impression that Morodiene is female.

Anyway, in my opinion the previous generation Yamaha CP1/CP5 are geared more towards electric piano playing, with a light (yet playable) action that is not terribly piano-like.

The Kawai MP10 is rather large, but still portable, and will arguably provide the most realistic acoustic piano simulation of any slab-type instrument on the market. The ES7 is certainly more portable, with a good action, sound, and built-in speakers.

The Casio instruments mention above are also worth considering.

As for new Kawai models in the pipeline, I'm afraid I cannot comment on instruments that have yet to be formally announced.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2189377 - 11/27/13 07:49 PM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: Kawai James]
pwl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 185
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
...formally announced.

I think this is code for NAMM!

Top
#2190867 - 12/01/13 08:57 AM Re: OK, another "help me find a DP" thread [Re: pwl]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: pwl
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
...formally announced.

I think this is code for NAMM!


We shall have to see about our tax situation. If we have to spend a lot of money before the end of the year (rather than giving it to the feds), then I won't be able to wait.

I listened to clips of the Kawai MP10 and compared them to the Yamaha CP4. I really prefer the sound of the CP4, although the MP10 has 88-key sampling, which I prefer. The main reason I liked the CP4 sound better was because the hammer sound was less on softer notes and more on louder as it should be, whereas on the MP10 it sounded consistent no matter the volume.

If we can wait, though, I have no problem in doing so and seeing what comes out at NAMM. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
103 registered (AndrewJCW, ando, Anticlock, aDino, aesop, 31 invisible), 1361 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75581 Members
42 Forums
156275 Topics
2295040 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Impromptu in A
by Ritzycat
25 minutes 13 seconds ago
what do you think piano teachers about it?
by Maximillyan
51 minutes 45 seconds ago
picking a fight: how many movements in op.110?
by beet31425
Yesterday at 11:36 PM
Old Wurlitzer (circa 1940s) baby grand, Worth Picking Up?
by Paul678
Yesterday at 10:38 PM
Swamp Cooler and Air Conditioner- Use only One of them!
by Paul678
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission