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#2187707 - 11/24/13 12:35 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 421
Loc: Worcester, UK
Originally Posted By: Mike.
I love to teach and give. God gave me talent to do things I like to show God my gratitude by giving what he gave me,God didn't charge me for every whip stitch thing he gave me, why should I? He also understands we need groceries and rent and all that. but at the same time compassion charity and giving back is also part of the equation. Some teachers don't get that part. Why is it unreasonable to ask for generosity once and a while?


Well, I have to work to a schedule, and I teach to make a living. I have never worked in the kind of environment where I have had the luxury of keeping a random schedule - when you work alongside other people's schedules, you have an obligation to keep strict time.

I have been known to be very generous with my time, when it has proved necessary - however, this would most certainly not be apparent to a new student.

As for "God"? I don't recall ever taking piano lessons from any such entity. I most certainly had to do my own practice, too wink


Edited by Ben Crosland (11/24/13 12:37 PM)
Edit Reason: To include quote
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#2187728 - 11/24/13 01:21 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Ben Crosland]
Mike. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 10
As for "God"? I don't recall ever taking piano lessons from any such entity. I most certainly had to do my own practice, too wink


He gave you the DESIRE to learn and play. He gave you the students and he gave you the piano to practice on he gave you a family that had enough means to give you piano lessons I am sure at 2 years old. God works in mysterious ways. and i wasn't directing my feelings to anyone person. just some observations I have lived through myself and getting riding students from other instructors. what the OP posted rang true to other arts like Banjo and Dressage. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers just tired of some of the things the OP posted I was in total agreement with him/her. and I stated that there are a few things that [censored] me off with piano teachers and I posted it as i am sure there are other students that feel the same way. also i never said you aren't generous just was answering your question on what I meant on being a clock watcher. I don't schedule students on times of 1;00 then 2;00 then 3;00 etc. i schedule my lessons for 15 minutes between for quick questions and not to be rushed. Just me. I just feel that some piano teachers are looking at that watch too much. Stringed instrument teachers like Mine wold charge me 40 bucks a lesson and we would spend all day Saturday (Bill Keith) and I learned in a year how to play the banjo and he scared the heck out of me so I practiced and was able to play really well in two years. The piano I never EVER found a teacher like Bill and never will. The only helping hand I find with piano is at the end of my own arm. and youtube and online sources are all I have and they are working. Finally I am not trying to upset you. just wanted to answer your question. And praise be to God on high that you can play and teach. I truly thank you for helping to keep the piano alive and sharing it with the future so it can live on. Michael.



Edited by Mike. (11/24/13 01:23 PM)

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#2187736 - 11/24/13 01:38 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11874
Loc: Canada
Mike, teaching is a practical thing. You may not know that this post was addressed to you. Since you had questions and concerns, and I assume possibly looking for help:
Originally Posted By: keystring
I read somewhere that you are self-teaching atm. Have you had experience with piano or keyboard teachers, and if so, does what you write reflect your experience(s)? In youth or as an adult student? For any length of time? One teacher, or several?

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#2187744 - 11/24/13 02:01 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 421
Loc: Worcester, UK
Mike - if you truly don't want to ruffle feathers, then perhaps it might be a good idea not to proselytise like that on a forum that has no religious connotations. I, for one, find it deeply offensive that you should belittle me and my father's efforts to acquire musical instruments for our respective families, develop our skills, fund the lessons, etc, etc by attributing it all to a deity for which there is no objective proof of existence. I also find the idea that I should be singled out for such gifts over others utterly repugnant.

But that's just me.

Apologies for the thread derailing.
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#2187747 - 11/24/13 02:05 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: keystring]
Mike. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 10
Looking for help but also agreeing with the thread and posting from my bad experiences. I have had bad experiences and decided to teach myself. I have had three teachers two were awful one I think was a good one then had to relocate. I took riding lessons and found a wonderful instructor who got me into Dressage and I took banjo lessons from Bill Keith and that was a divine intervention. Piano being a very popular instrument and many many more people play it..... it is much easier to run into a bad teacher than more obscure professions. I guess I am looking for that in a piano teacher and just have to accept that i won't. So it was a post of lament a post of agreement and a post looking that maybe in the silliest of silliest hopes that i may find a really cool teacher. but so far nope. and I had oen teacher that kept telling me about this 12 year old that wasso wonderful that he was a genius and that I am too old to be concert quality but this 12 year old he is concert pianist quality. Just can't take that abuse. So yes I have had real awful teachers and one decent one in the piano.

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#2187749 - 11/24/13 02:11 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Mike.
Looking for help but also agreeing with the thread and posting from my bad experiences. I have had bad experiences and decided to teach myself. I have had three teachers two were awful one I think was a good one then had to relocate. I took riding lessons and found a wonderful instructor who got me into Dressage and I took banjo lessons from Bill Keith and that was a divine intervention.


So it was divine intervention you got good banjo lessons but God had nothing to do with the bad piano teachers? Something to think about there, no?

(Sorry I couldn't help it. I'm going to bow out not and leave the capable Ben in charge of our spiritual guidance. laugh )


Edited by ten left thumbs (11/24/13 02:11 PM)
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#2187752 - 11/24/13 02:19 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Mike. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 10
To Ben,, why did you ask me to expand on that one thing about clock watching if you didn't expect my honesty and all that. I also am offended by your attitude to me. were even. Again glad for you that you can teach and play I truly am. Now lets be friends and agree to disagree.

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#2187754 - 11/24/13 02:29 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: ten left thumbs]
Mike. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Mike.
Looking for help but also agreeing with the thread and posting from my bad experiences. I have had bad experiences and decided to teach myself. I have had three teachers two were awful one I think was a good one then had to relocate. I took riding lessons and found a wonderful instructor who got me into Dressage and I took banjo lessons from Bill Keith and that was a divine intervention.


So it was divine intervention you got good banjo lessons but God had nothing to do with the bad piano teachers? Something to think about there, no?


(Sorry I couldn't help it. I'm going to bow out not and leave the capable Ben in charge of our spiritual guidance. laugh )



Yes you're absolutely undoubtedly totally correct. Clear as a bell correct. Thank you. Yes It's God telling me to do it myself and save me a boatload of money and stop relying on others and the helping hand will be found at the end of my own arm. Now off to positive things and if you don't like me,,, for everyone that don't like me there are 10 that do.

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#2187755 - 11/24/13 02:31 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Ben Crosland]
catpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 55
Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland
Mike - if you truly don't want to ruffle feathers, then perhaps it might be a good idea not to proselytise like that on a forum that has no religious connotations. I, for one, find it deeply offensive that you should belittle me and my father's efforts to acquire musical instruments for our respective families, develop our skills, fund the lessons, etc, etc by attributing it all to a deity for which there is no objective proof of existence. I also find the idea that I should be singled out for such gifts over others utterly repugnant.

But that's just me.

Apologies for the thread derailing.


thumb

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#2187766 - 11/24/13 02:52 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: catpiano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5434
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: catpiano
Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland
Mike - if you truly don't want to ruffle feathers, then perhaps it might be a good idea not to proselytise like that on a forum that has no religious connotations. I, for one, find it deeply offensive that you should belittle me and my father's efforts to acquire musical instruments for our respective families, develop our skills, fund the lessons, etc, etc by attributing it all to a deity for which there is no objective proof of existence. I also find the idea that I should be singled out for such gifts over others utterly repugnant.

But that's just me.

Apologies for the thread derailing.


thumb
clap clap clap!

And sincere apologies to keystring, for not replying to her comments properly yet!
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#2187767 - 11/24/13 02:53 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 421
Loc: Worcester, UK
Originally Posted By: Mike.
To Ben,, why did you ask me to expand on that one thing about clock watching if you didn't expect my honesty and all that. I also am offended by your attitude to me. were even. Again glad for you that you can teach and play I truly am. Now lets be friends and agree to disagree.


Mike, my point is that your answers could have been given in such a way that they didn't include a sermon. Believe it or not, human beings are capable of displaying the full range of kindness, love, appreciation, generosity (as well as all the bad stuff), regardless of which deity they do or do not believe in. I know that many religious folk believe they have a monopoly on the good stuff, but those of us who don't subscribe happen to know otherwise.

Anyway - the fact is, if a teacher is able to be as flexible as you with their time, then that means one of two things: they are either of sufficient means that they do not need to work to the limits of their endurance, or they don't have a full schedule. Generosity doesn't necessarily factor into it in the way you think it does. It could, after all, be argued that by allowing the "extra" time between lessons, that you are simply charging a lower hourly rate than you appear to be.

Don't get me wrong - I do understand where you're coming from, but there are many different types of people who teach music, and with widely different life commitments. I, for instance, have a young family, and have to factor in school runs and household chores in how I schedule my students. I have a studio to rent, which needs a minimum number of students to be financially viable. I am largely restricted to working within a fairly narrow evening slot, too.

In my opinion, all of this has nothing to do with being a good or bad teacher, and I would humbly suggest you factor this out of the equation if decide you look for a piano teacher in the future.
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#2187777 - 11/24/13 03:20 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Mike.

what I mean is that some teachers stack students to the the second. they want so many students that there is no time for questions or any extra time once and a while. Music is more than money.

OK, but we also have to pay bills. God doesn't pay them, so sometimes we have to teach more people than we would choose to teach if we did not need money to live.
Quote:

I am different. I love to teach and give. God gave me talent to do things I like to show God my gratitude by giving what he gave me, God didn't charge me for every whip stitch thing he gave me, why should I? He also understands we need groceries and rent and all that.

I'm not sure what you are comparing here. Certainly there are people who are so greedy that they only care about money, and obviously that would not make them very good teachers. Is that your point
Quote:

but at the same time compassion charity and giving back is also part of the equation. Some teachers don't get that part. Why is it unreasonable to ask for generosity once and a while?

I think you are off on a God-rant here. I'm not sure if you are talking about what makes good teachers or giving us a sermon.
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#2187778 - 11/24/13 03:20 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
I suppose there is a distinction: there are clock-watching piano teachers, and there are punctual-to-the-minute piano teachers. The two categories are quite different. IOW, there may be some who are bored and simply teaching for the money, while there are others who - as Ben suggests - are enormously invested in their teaching, but without a spare minute in their schedules.

I know plenty of fine and in-demand piano teachers who are in this second category.

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#2187792 - 11/24/13 03:43 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11874
Loc: Canada
Mike, thank you for answering my question. It does make a difference whether you were writing from what you read about, or your own experiences.
Originally Posted By: Mike.
.... and a post looking that maybe in the silliest of silliest hopes that i may find a really cool teacher. but so far nope. and I had one teacher that kept telling me about this 12 year old that was so wonderful that he was a genius and that I am too old to be concert quality but this 12 year old he is concert pianist quality. Just can't take that abuse. So yes I have had real awful teachers and one decent one in the piano.

The teaching scenario itself is complicated, even when you look at the "standard" one involving children who begin at the "common" age. It may be more complicated (I'm guessing) than for other instruments because anybody can produce a sound on the piano, and so you have all kinds of people claiming to be piano teachers, and this puts the entire population of teachers into a tight spot.

It gets even more complicated when adult students are involved, and I hesitate to put that into the mix here. (I've written too much about it in the past.) However, I hear you about the tale of the shining 12 year old - this comes up once in a while - and I don't think these teachers have an idea of how hurtful that is. For now, have a look at this site:
http://www.musicalfossils.com/

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#2187810 - 11/24/13 04:33 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Mike.


Yes you're absolutely undoubtedly totally correct. Clear as a bell correct. Thank you. Yes It's God telling me to do it myself and save me a boatload of money and stop relying on others and the helping hand will be found at the end of my own arm. Now off to positive things and if you don't like me,,, for everyone that don't like me there are 10 that do.


I wish you only the very best. smile
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2187811 - 11/24/13 04:35 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Ben Crosland]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland

I, for instance, have a young family, and have to factor in school runs and household chores in how I schedule my students. I have a studio to rent, which needs a minimum number of students to be financially viable. I am largely restricted to working within a fairly narrow evening slot, too.

Ben, do you mean that God is not paying your bills? laugh

I really don't want to pick fights with anyone, based on their personal beliefs. But I have to say I really get annoyed with sermons. It is the number one thing that drove me away from churches in the first place!
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#2187815 - 11/24/13 04:40 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
I suppose there is a distinction: there are clock-watching piano teachers, and there are punctual-to-the-minute piano teachers. The two categories are quite different. IOW, there may be some who are bored and simply teaching for the money, while there are others who - as Ben suggests - are enormously invested in their teaching, but without a spare minute in their schedules.

I know plenty of fine and in-demand piano teachers who are in this second category.

There are also clock-watching parents, they ones who will SCREAM if a lesson starts 2 minutes late but who are just fine with running over an making the next person late.

Then there are people, like me, who have schedules of their own and don't always have time to wait. I have students who literally carve out 30 minutes of time from their insane schedules to take lessons. And the reason that these people have insane schedules is that God has not favored them with a great deal of money and leisure time. Apparently He does not favor us as much as people with more money and loves the 1 percent the most...
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#2187818 - 11/24/13 04:46 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5434
Loc: Europe
I find that religion is a very interesting aspect of life! One that I'm not attached in any way with, but I do consider myself spiritual enough.

I've had one of the best hotel stays of my life when staying with Jaap Cramer (EMF composer) in Texas! He's studied theology to a postgraduate level and is getting ready to be a cleric of some sort.

There are two things that made the most impact to me:

First of all he wasn't pushy. He was NEVER sermoning, or even attempting to persuade me of anything. Thus I kept talking with him, about all things in life...

The second thing is that we have totally different ideas on what religion is all about: For me it's quite simple, I think: I don't care what one believes in, but how that affects his/her life, and thus my life. It's the "real life" impact that matters for me. For him it was the exact opposite: Religion is there only for the spiritual part and he didn't care one bit for the physical part!

There's no need for any fight in this hot headed thread...

BTW, most of the times I refer to gawd, rather than God... wink

___________________________________________

Keystring,

in short, my (silly) list was a way to explain the 'how far' a student can get, due to whatever reason. I'm not lowering my standards for anyone, but I am altering the ways I teach and the impact I attempt to have at each student depending on them. I benchmark each student with every lesson pretty much!

Thus the list.


Edited by Nikolas (11/24/13 04:47 PM)
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#2187882 - 11/25/13 02:53 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5602
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Mike.
NUMBER ONE!!!!

I don't care about your "star" 12 year old student that can play anything while i am trying to learn. keep it up I go away.

What's wrong with having star students who can play anything while you can't? Are you saying you will only study with teachers who don't have star students and/or can't produce star students and/or are incapable of teaching to a high caliber and/or are incompetent to begin with?

cursing
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#2187904 - 11/25/13 05:10 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Mike.
NUMBER ONE!!!!

I don't care about your "star" 12 year old student that can play anything while i am trying to learn. keep it up I go away.

What's wrong with having star students who can play anything while you can't? Are you saying you will only study with teachers who don't have star students and/or can't produce star students and/or are incapable of teaching to a high caliber and/or are incompetent to begin with?

cursing

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#2187952 - 11/25/13 08:35 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Gary D.]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3250
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
But I have to say I really get annoyed with sermons. It is the number one thing that drove me away from churches in the first place!


But Gary..............you can't get sleep like that at home!
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#2187961 - 11/25/13 09:00 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11874
Loc: Canada
Guys, if you are decent teachers, then you cannot imagine some of the things we encounter. That is to say, you will be aware of the common things such as when child-students come to you with finger numbers written all over the place for years, etc.

Yes - when Mike wishes teachers would work overtime with their students, that is out of touch with reality and not a realistic expectation.

But there is another scenario that you guys may not be familiar and so don't expect, but I have seen it with a friend, and then a (very) few people afterward. She would prepare all week for her lesson. Often when she arrived her teacher sat back comfortably in her chair, and spent half the lesson talking about her young star student, and also detailing plans of how to teach and push him forward. My friend's own lessons lacked direction. The attitude with this kind of teacher is that the older student must be a hobbyist, and the natural wish to socialize with a fellow adult seems to take over. "This is the time for me to put my feet up and relax, before getting to my next 'real' student." Since then I've encountered this story with three other adults.

Another is what one is told. I encountered this once, and virtually when I first had a piano and asked a straightforward question in a forum: some basic technique thing. The response to my technical question was that I will never become a proper pianist because of my age. I had not asked whether I could, or expressed any ambition - but this was volunteered.

When a student of any age starts a new instrument - or even, starts music for the first time - everything is unfamiliar. He is uncoordinated with the piano, and the simplest things are hard just like for a five year old. You guys know this. The new student doesn't know how to sit, how to move, where to find middle C - anything. The new student (any age):

- needs to be given these most basic skills
- the teacher must have the attitude (and convey it) that it is normal to be clumsy in the beginning
- that all students start out this way, and the abilities come with time
- that mundane, simple things, such as reaching for that middle C, are actually important achievements. The teacher should have this attitude and convey it. The student must have the same in order to grow.

Now imagine if these two things happen:
- The new student is being told (maybe repeatedly) about the 12 year old 'star', as though this were the teacher's real interest, and this is being told to him while he is struggling with the likes of "finding middle C"
- The new student is being told, unsolicited, that he will never amount to much.

IF this was Mike's experience, then it was wrong, harmful, and hurtful. He may be saying "Stop telling me about your 12 year old wonder-student. Concentrate on teaching me, and where I am at." And I see no benefit of a teacher telling an adult student of successes she is proud of who are much younger, and especially when coupled with a dire prognosis. If you have a 6 year old, and you tell him "See how well this 12 year old is doing - you'll get there too - he started like you." this is positive. It could even be positive to tell the adult, "This 12 year old was once a beginner just like you."

We don't know the rest. Sometimes students come across poor or misguided teaching. Sometimes they themselves set up things because of how they come across, what they say, what they do - or it can be a mix of attitudes. But this dual scenario can and does happen.

That said, I am trying to stay away from the adult student part of it, because that is a separate scenario.

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#2187967 - 11/25/13 09:08 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11874
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Mike.
NUMBER ONE!!!!

I don't care about your "star" 12 year old student that can play anything while i am trying to learn. keep it up I go away.

What's wrong with having star students who can play anything while you can't? Are you saying you will only study with teachers who don't have star students and/or can't produce star students and/or are incapable of teaching to a high caliber and/or are incompetent to begin with?

I believe that Mike is saying that when he is having a lesson as a beginner, he doesn't want to be told about the "star", especially if it happens repeatedly and/or if it takes away from lesson time. If this is coupled with statements of how poorly the student is expected to do, it is demoralizing. Mike can tell us whether or not that is what went on.

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#2187968 - 11/25/13 09:12 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Nikolas]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11874
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Nikolas

Keystring,

in short, my (silly) list was a way to explain the 'how far' a student can get, due to whatever reason. I'm not lowering my standards for anyone, but I am altering the ways I teach and the impact I attempt to have at each student depending on them. I benchmark each student with every lesson pretty much!

Thus the list.

Nikolas, I sort of got that. Still I wanted to mention the literal part, because I have encountered where the teaching actually starts with the thought of "where might this student get to career-wise" and then gear even the foundation to that. From everything I have read and know, I am sure you don't do that. smile

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#2188049 - 11/25/13 11:51 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Mike.]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Mike,

" The piano I never EVER found a teacher like Bill and never will. "

Well, I understand your dilemma but disagree. Have you looked?

You mentioned earlier that you wished you could find "the same thing in an obscure profession", or something like that. And I ask again, have you looked? We are professionals, after all, just like any other. You need to shop around a bit, and educate yourself to find a good one.

I mean, you wouldn't just go to the first accountant or attorney you met on the street, and sit there and listen to advice you know is bad, would you? No, of course not! You'd-

1- ask around to see who knows of any good ones.
2- Then you'd interview them to see if they lived up to people's comments.
3- you'd discuss your particular problems with them to hear what their solutions would be.
4- if you didn't like the answer, you'd excuse yourself, leave, and go talk to the next one.
5- if you have lessons with one, and they do something that you don't like or doesn't help you, you'd discuss it with them and tell them that wasn't working.
6- if they don't do better helping you, right then you'd take your business elsewhere, and for any reason you like.

Look, the piano is a much more difficult instrument to play than the banjo. And you'll need help to learn many parts of it. Even playing scales well requires a lot of help. So at some point, you're going to have to go work with a teacher to get past certain hurdles. You might as well get ready to do so now.

As far as generosity goes, I'd like to see you try to get some out of my lawyer(s). Really.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2188057 - 11/25/13 12:16 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: keystring]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5434
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: Nikolas

Keystring,

in short, my (silly) list was a way to explain the 'how far' a student can get, due to whatever reason. I'm not lowering my standards for anyone, but I am altering the ways I teach and the impact I attempt to have at each student depending on them. I benchmark each student with every lesson pretty much!

Thus the list.

Nikolas, I sort of got that. Still I wanted to mention the literal part, because I have encountered where the teaching actually starts with the thought of "where might this student get to career-wise" and then gear even the foundation to that. From everything I have read and know, I am sure you don't do that. smile
If I understand you correctly (still missing tons of time, but hopefully I'll grab some NIKOLAS time tonight...)

No, I cater for every student, but the list I posted has to do with their potential and will to do something, rather than my doing... Of course I don't kick start on sight reading on a 7 year old... No matter how wrong it may be, I just find it useless at this point and the student too young. If they grow at the age of ten and are still interested in piano, or something like that, then things start to get more serious. Same with scales (as I mentioned above).

The exception of getting a super amazing student is one that scares me... If I'm able to recognize them, I'll just skip ahead into harder stuff and sight reading, and harder theory ahead of time... or something... :-/

I can't think "career wise" on 7 year olds... I can certainly do that at 13 year olds, with solid foundation, but not 7 year olds...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2188091 - 11/25/13 01:50 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
I think we adults have some growing up to do. I have a long career of being student for several instruments. None very good. Piano is barely reaching to an okay level after 13 years of off and on being at it. Anyway it gives me certain credential to speak about it, I think.

There are good teachers and bad ones - very true. All my teachers are / were good except one. I defined good teacher as someone who added value / helped me move forward in music. The one exception is a string teacher I got for my husband and I. I have taken violin for three years as a child. My husband could not even read notes. I explained this on the phone and in person and at the beginning of the lesson. My husband was making those scrappy bad sound and the instrument was not in tune. She kept yelling at him "play A". And started playing with him and marked "good" on his viola book #1. I was horrified, asked around and switched to a new wonderful teacher.

Adults need to grow up - many children are better than us. Don't let it bother you. I once knew a woman (older than 40) broke down in tears just because a six years old child played the same piece she played in the last recital. We have to start from somewhere.

Teacher talking about a star student during your lesson - happens to me too since I take a lesson from a college prof who has some gifted students. If its too much I tell her that I would ask you to give me a make up lesson if she does not shut up. Or just tell her, lets go to lunch and I will hear your story. I make sure she knows my time is precious too. Adults should be able to talk to ones teacher since we are not children.

Adults not amounts to be a concert pianists etc - being a concert pianists sounds like a too much work to me. But if you want it, don't let anyone bother you. Anything is possible if its possible. You know it soon or later.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


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#2188125 - 11/25/13 03:11 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: AZNpiano]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Bad teachers!
Well I think all teachers are just "different"!

I have had 9 different piano teachers, from Adjudicator/Examiner RCM piano teachers to Casino/piano bar teachers!

I had five classically trained and RCM qualified piano teachers.
I had four "stray dog type" piano teachers. (The stray dog type piano teachers played more than the classical qualified piano teachers.) Some would consider the stray dogs "bad teachers" but I called them "amazing!

Anyways, depending on what you wanted out of piano lessons, I think I learned a great deal from "all" these nine teachers!!

Bad Teacher?

Just the one guy who was an RCM professor classical teacher (had every letter of the alphabet after his name) and in my half hour lesson with him, he left every 10 minutes to go out and have a cigarette!!! So I think I learned NOTHING from him and he spent more time using his fingers to light cigarettes than he did to show me how to play the piano! Maybe I just drove him to smoking! Who knows grin

... If my mother only knew!!!!!!
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#2188315 - 11/25/13 10:06 PM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: Diane...]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Great dress, Diane!!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2188380 - 11/26/13 12:07 AM Re: Bad Teachers [Re: keystring]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5602
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: keystring
Now imagine if these two things happen:
- The new student is being told (maybe repeatedly) about the 12 year old 'star', as though this were the teacher's real interest, and this is being told to him while he is struggling with the likes of "finding middle C"
- The new student is being told, unsolicited, that he will never amount to much.

I think you're reading too much into that post. I don't think the situation is quite like what you're describing, "that he will never amount to much."
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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